I Love the comment made that steel melts at a lot higher temperature than jet fuel burns at, and that is true...

 

...But Steel loses a hell of a lot of strength when it is heated up. You try balancing all that mass from the top of the WTC onto weaken steel and it will break.

 

But off course Gareth would love Kerry to come in to replace Bushy and outlaw Sex before marriage

But off course Gareth would love Kerry to come in to replace Bushy and outlaw Sex before marriage

 

No I wouldn't...what the fuck are you on about.

 

Idiot.

Your the idiot believing in all this crap about how the US governement blew up the world trade centre.

ahh, god, yeah....ok.

 

Why are you bothing to post things like that? It's like a 15 year old.

 

Stop taking the debate backwards with such loose slanging attempts.

So what is it you hope to come off trying to prove that it was an inside job?

 

Kicking out the entire governement and locking them up for crimes against america?

No' date=' that argument doesn't fly.[/quote']

 

 

what does not fly is your theories not based on reality or common sense

Firstly, it's not the entire government...

 

and....yes I would want those involved to go to jail. But that's a long way off.

 

Firstly we just need to show that we are being tricked and lied to about so many things......and 9/11 is a prime example, which was the modern day reichstag fire or pearl harbour event but on a more devious and spectaular level.

 

what does not fly is your theories not based on reality or common sense

 

And stop it with your broken record style lines, yes they are based on reality or common sense!

 

I wouldn't even consider them if they weren't. You don't think they are but it that really dosen't mean anything does it.

 

And stop just trying to provoke pointless arguing. I thought you should be past that by now.

 

 

 

9/11 Mysteries - Part 1 - Controlled Demolition

Dentist Whistleblower Who Met 9/11 Hijackers Poisoned To Death

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI66CVs-zmE

 

This guy obviously paid the price for his efforts to warn the U.S. government that their agents were about to act as the fall guys for a terror attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW6HdCbU_ZY&NR

 

If they were brought down by explosives they would have created the exact same seismic signature, they didn't.

 

And wouldnt they have used the same amount of explosives?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8119854514684528700&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=en-GB

 

David Ray Griffin in top form, 9/14/2006

GUILTY FOR 9-11: BUSH, RUMSFELD, MYERS

 

Introduction & Section 1

by Illarion Bykov and Jared Israel

 

" On 11 September there were two entire squadrons of combat-ready fighter

jets at Andrews. Their job was to protect the skies over Washington D.C.

They failed to do their job. Despite over one hour's advance warning of a

terrorist attack in progress, not a single Andrews fighter tried to protect

the city.

 

 

"Combat Ready" is a term used by the U.S. military to describe a unit with a sufficient number of properly trained troops; and a full inventory of equipment and ordinance that is functional and with the proper maintenance, so as to be able to be deployed into combat. It does not mean the people in the unit are sitting around on benches ready to leap into tanks and jets in ten minutes.

 

Many "combat ready" units are Reserve units or National Guard units and most of the people in those units hold full-time jobs outside of their military commitment. Some "combat ready" units are part of the full-time military and live on or near their bases, but even in these units some people are on leave or off duty.

 

None of these people are automatically on duty for anything unless they are assigned through the chain of command to a specific task.

 

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/Post911/dubious_claims.html

something about facts

 

isreal mossad involved in 9\11 September and

some facts about zionism plans and mossad and isreal

 

go and see or download

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=911+Stranger+Than+Fiction+Part+II+%28September+11+Israel+Mossad%29+

What do you think about that ^^ Gareth?

Well....hmm. Obviously everyone is aware of the strong connection between Israel and America.

 

This Mossad connection has been talked about by many people - scholars who know far more about these areas than I do. However, I don't really think getting into that is really THAT important yet because we are still trying gather all the information about what actually did occur and the people involved within America - and that itself is a big job.

 

I think there's lots to focus on that is far more obvious to people than delving into the complexed world of the Mossad link.

 

I'm not saying it isn't important and I'm not necessary saying that there is a strong link either.......all I know is that Israeli and American leaders have been involved in controversial situations in the past but I personally haven't looked into this 9/11 link in any detail so I don't really know enough about this area to develop a firm stance either way.

 

And as I said, I think there are more tangible areas & information that a wider amount of people can understand.

Yesterday an italian public channel (raitre) showed parts of the documentary "confronting the evidence" inside a show called Report.

I had already seen some documentaries about the 9/11...and I am pretty sure there is something that we don't know about that day. There are too many things that are not clear and that the governement wants to keep secret...

Yes, you are right.

 

Place this bet....

 

1). That the US Govt admits WTC7 was collapsed by explosives, before the end of this year.

 

2). By the end of 2008, it will be acknowledged and accepted as fact that elements within the US administration were complicit in staging the events of 9/11.

 

This was discussed by someone else online and I think you might get good odds.......stick £10 on both......and you never know.

Sergeant Details Traitorous Stand Down Orders

 

 

CENTCOM Sergeant Details Traitorous Stand Down Orders On 9/11

Military whistleblower comes forward with key information

 

Steve Watson | September 26 2006

 

On air yesterday a former Sergeant in the United States Army named Lauro "LJ" Chavez. Chavez was stationed at MacDill AFB where he claims he witnessed unusual preparations for a potential airplane hitting the base on the morning of 9/11 and distinctly heard officers talking about a stand down. This has led him to go public in questioning the NORAD stand down and the demolition of the twin towers.

 

In a letter that first appeared on the 9/11 Veterans For Truth Website, Sergeant Lauro "LJ" Chavez responds to a Cincinnati Post hit piece article by outlining his own doubts about the official version of 9/11 and his personal experiences of the strange prelude to the events of that morning.

 

Despite early (and healthy) reactions claiming this may be a hoax designed to poison the well of the 9/11 truth movement, Sergeant Chavez has now provided us with evidence of his credentials, his honorable discharge documents showing the military installations he was located inside. The last station he held was inside United States Central Command in Tampa - the pdf can be viewed here.

 

Mr Chavez was quick to point out that he does not have all the answers, but does have what he feels is vital information regarding the events of 9/11:

 

''I'm in no way in a position to tell people that 'this is the official story so believe me', no, I want to give people the information so they can go away and look for themselves and formulate a logical decision with all the evidence." Chavez said.

 

Mr Chavez worked within CENTCOM, one of the five American regional unified commands consisting of Marines, Navy and air force officers. CENTCOM's area of jurisdiction is in the Middle East, East Africa and Central Asia. CENTCOM has been the main American presence in many military operations, including the Persian Gulf War, the United States war in Afghanistan, and the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Chavez was stationed at CENTCOM's headquarters at MacDill AFB, in Tampa, Florida. His commanding officer was Four Star General Tommy Franks.

 

 

Chavez worked in the J6 department that was in charge of all the computer systems, the network backbone of CENTCOM. Chavez ran a team of six soldiers on the helpdesk network side. He was personally responsible for the maintenance of commanding officers computers, including those of General Tommy Franks. He has letters of recommendation from Franks and even went to Franks' house to work on his computers.

 

Chavez described how the military has a ring of computer networks according to different security clearance levels. Chavez worked only with systems classified as top secret or higher.

 

On the morning before 9/11 Chavez was in the Secure Compartmented Information Facility, the secure bunker at the base of CENTCOM HQ which is populated by high ranking military intelligence personnel. This is a facility that requires a top secret gamma clearance. Inside are systems that can monitor weather systems and flight paths of all aircraft within the country.

 

That day he was involved with supporting computer equipment being used in the Vigilant Guardian exercise and another exercise based in Egypt. On this day Chavez got to see information that he wasn't supposed to see.

 

"I was working on psyops commander's computer and next to his PC was a top secret document that was open, his neglect was my ally, I was sitting there working on his computer and was waiting for some passes to download and I look over and I'm reading the document, and it's the off order for the exercise that they are participating in."

 

This raises major questions because normally wargames or exercises are not classified as top secret as it is a requirement to let some information be public, especially if the exercise is taking place in a populated area.

 

Chavez continued:

 

"So I'm reading this document and it's giving proposed situations for scenarios for this wargame the scenarios include a hijacked plane, most of them were hijacked planes, I saw one that was like a car bomb trying to blow up something, but one of them was a hijacked plane crashing into a nuclear power plant in California, the Sears Tower, the World Trade Center, The Pentagon obviously, the White House, our building was one of the targets as well."

 

Chavez went on to describe how CENTCOM HQ was being heavily fortified the day before 9/11 and access to the base was restricted to top secret personnel only. This ties in with a declaration of Martial Law by Jeb Bush two days previously throughout the entirety of Florida.

 

Chavez also described how during the exercises the aerospace grid with "enemy" blips on it has to be piped in to the air traffic controllers of all the airports in the affected area so they know there is a military exercise going on. This ties in with the released NORAD/NEADS and FAA tapes and accounts that are riddled with references to the drills and exercises taking place on 9/11.

 

 

Chavez described the plot as "genius" and stated:

 

"If you want to crash planes into a building, and you've got the aerospace grid at your beckoning call, so you put a bunch of blips on it so no one knows which ones are real and which ones are fake... All you have to do is have someone in charge of the computer systems to put the blips on the screen and then you can do whatever you want."

 

Chavez proceeded to detail the key discussions that he heard inside the bunker on the day of 9/11:

 

"I didn't get to see tower one hit, I was in there talking with individuals and i was tired, I'd been there since four in the morning. Then all of a sudden everybody started hustling and bustling. it was like NASA when Apollo 13 was about to crash, everybody running around, and then they put it on the big screen, CNN with the tower on fire.

 

Then we see the other plane come in and hit it and at that point everybody is standing up. The air force had commanders in contact with NORAD. The plane, or whatever, hit the Pentagon and then we were like 'Why aren't they scrambling jets?' We were asking, there was eight or nine people... Colonels and Lieutenant Colonels asking the Lieutenant Colonel in charge of the air force 'why isn't NORAD scrambling jets? and he said 'we received an order to stand down''. And that just perplexed everybody."

 

Mr Chavez did not know the Lieutenant Colonel and so does not know his name, yet if he can be identified, then we have uncovered a direct link to the stand down order. If that man or any others who were present at CENTCOM on 9/11 can be identified and made to testify under oath, then the whole cover operation could be blown. A real independent investigation would have secured this.

 

The entire riveting interview is freely available online here now. Please spread this information far and wide.

 

Mr Chavez has since been informed that the computer company he now works for, as information security manager, has been receiving threatening phone calls demanding his dismissal. Mr Chavez is another example of someone who is bravely putting his career, reputation and life on the line to get the truth out about the 9/11 cover up.

Yes, you are right.

 

Place this bet....

 

1). That the US Govt admits WTC7 was collapsed by explosives, before the end of this year.

 

2). By the end of 2008, it will be acknowledged and accepted as fact that elements within the US administration were complicit in staging the events of 9/11.

 

This was discussed by someone else online and I think you might get good odds.......stick £10 on both......and you never know.

 

 

And why would they annouce number 1?

Hmmm, well, you see....the government are under alot of pressure now as so many structural engineers and demolition expert workers are saying "look, it's obvious, it's a beautiful demolition job, case closed". And some are within government hired companies.

 

So......I think they MIGHT have to do a U-Turn on this....and spin it somehow favourably.

 

It's damage control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0

 

He says what about Flight 93? :p Opps Rumsfeld!!

 

'His statement didn't make sense to me at all until I read Webster Tarpley's Synthetic Terror which explains about the coup.'

'I think what is particularly revealing about it is the reaction of the 2 people behind as soon as he says 'shot down'

Oh boy........More fake tapes...whens that mid-term election again ....:rolleyes:...

 

The laughing '9-11 bombers'

 

London Times / Yosri Fouda | October 1 2006

 

Comment: Karl Rove promised an October surprise and here it is on October the first. A mysteriously previously undiscovered video of Mohammed Atta reading his will at Osama's HQ before 9/11. Note that there is no sound so voice analysis is not possible.

 

Watch the video: Osama Bin Laden's HQ

 

FILM of the ringleader of the September 11 hijackers reading his “martyrdom” will inside Afghanistan at Osama Bin Laden’s headquarters has emerged five years after the Al-Qaeda outrage.

 

It is the first time that a videotape has appeared of Mohammed Atta — who flew an American Airlines plane into the north tower of the World Trade Center — at a training camp in Afghanistan. It fills in a significant gap in the timing of the build-up to the attacks on the United States.

 

Dates on the tape show Atta was filmed on January 18, 2000, together with Ziad Jarrah, the pilot of United Airlines flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania after the passengers apparently stormed the flight deck.

 

The Sunday Times has obtained a copy of the video through a previously tested channel. The tape has no soundtrack and a US source said lip readers had tried without success to decipher what was being said.

 

Despite the deadly tasks the men had been assigned, they appear in high spirits, laughing and smiling in front of the camera. Only when Atta, with an AK-47 propped on a wall beside him, reads a document marked in Arabic “the will”, does he become solemn. Both are well groomed, without the haggard appearance of the identity mugshots issued after September 11.

 

The high quality, unedited film shows Bin Laden addressing his followers at the mud-walled complex near Kandahar. One of the main figures in the September 11 plot, Ramzi Binalshibh, is identifiable in the crowd, as is a bodyguard whose task was to kill Bin Laden with two bullets to the head if he faced capture.

 

Dating on the tape indicates that the Al-Qaeda leader was filmed on January 8, 2000, 10 days before Atta and Jarrah recorded their wills.

 

American and German investigators have struggled to find evidence of Atta’s whereabouts in January 2000 after he disappeared from Hamburg. The hour-long tape places him in Afghanistan at a decisive moment in the development of the conspiracy when he was given operational command. Months later both he and Jarrah enrolled at flying schools in America.

 

Investigators have also puzzled over the fact that unlike the rest of the hijackers — most of whom were young Saudi fundamentalists — Atta and Jarrah were well educated and appeared to fit into western society while studying in Germany. The video indicates how easily they slipped from a western identity to a fundamentalist one. It also shows up the subterfuge they maintained in Germany and America that they did not know each other, all part of evading detection.

Missing Link Atta “Martyrdom” Video Appears Five Weeks Before Election

 

Kurt Nimmo | October 1 2006

 

Suddenly, with the midterm election five weeks away, a previously undiscovered video emerges, showing Mohammed Atta “reading his ‘martyrdom’ will inside Afghanistan at Usama bin Laden’s headquarters.”

 

In another segment, Atta appears with Ziad Jarrah, who, according to the official nine eleven fairy tale, was the pilot of “United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania after the passengers apparently stormed the flight deck,” according to Fox News.

 

As an extra added bonus, the tape shows Ramzi Binalshibh, the “senior” al-Qaeda leader and Hamburg cell member, supposedly captured after a gunbattle in Karachi, Pakistan, on September 11, 2002, and handed over to the United States.

 

The “high quality, unedited film” is being hyped as a missing link in the official mythology. “American and German investigators have struggled to find evidence of Atta’s whereabouts in January 2000 after he disappeared from Hamburg. The hour-long tape places him in Afghanistan at a decisive moment in the development of the conspiracy when he was given operational command. Months later both he and Jarrah enrolled at flying schools in America.”

 

And yet, according to the Berliner Zeitung newspaper, “Atta was under surveillance by CIA agents while in Germany from January to May, 2000…. The Americans did not inform German law enforcement authorities of their observation of Atta, or of the reasons that they considered him suspicious…. But the CIA apparently also hid its incendiary findings from other agencies of the United States government,” thus allowing him to gain a U.S. entry visa on May 18, 2000.

 

Other reports put him in Mabalacat, Philippines, staying at the Woodland Resort hotel where he was observed by locals drinking “Johnnie Walker Black Label whiskey” and sleeping around, a story grossly at odds with the behavior of Atta’s pious doppelgänger recording a “martyrdom video” at approximately the same time in Kandahar, Afghanistan (the presence of the carousing Atta in the Philippines was reported by the Manila Times, 10/2/2001, the International Herald Tribune, 10/5/2001, and the Associated Press, 9/28/2001).

 

Of course, none of this matters, as the idea here is to keep the American people on point as the Bushcons attempt to remain in control of Congress, not that Democrats can be expected to wander much from the neocon forever war agenda, inflated by fake terrorism and elusive, one-step-ahead terrorists, Freddy Kruger phantoms designed to keep the “clash of civilizations” going indefinitely.

 

Moreover, the neocons are no doubt concerned about the fact that, according to a recent Zogby poll, “less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated.” In May of this year, Zogby America reported: “Close to half (48%) agrees the U.S. government and 9/11 Commission are not covering up anything, yet nearly as many (42%) believe the government and 9/11 Commission are covering up. One in ten (10%) is unsure.”

 

In order to get us back in the fold, the neocons are engaging in a full-court press, releasing the missing link Atta video and, as well, yet another Ayman al-Zawahri video, a follow-up to “a string of videos for the anniversary of Sept. 11, showing increasingly sophisticated production techniques in a likely effort to demonstrate that it remains a powerful, confident force despite the U.S.-led war on terror,” as USA Today characterized it. All of this reeks of desperation, as the latest “al-Qaeda” and “al-Qaeda-linked” videos show the desecrated bodies of US soldiers in Iraq and issue threats against Pope Benedict XVI, obvious attempts to enrage Americans.

 

Naturally, as increasing numbers of Americans are either weary of all this or simply ignore it, we can expect an October Surprise, as promised by Segretti understudy Karl Rove.

 

“It should come as no surprise if the Bush Administration undertakes a preemptive war against Iran sometime before the November election,” writes former senator Gary Hart, victim of the Republican engineered “Zippergate” scandal.

 

“In more rational times, including at the height of the Cold War, bizarre actions such as unilateral, unprovoked, preventive war are dismissed by thoughtful, seasoned, experienced men and women as mad. But those qualities do not characterize our current leadership,” infested with neocons determined to “remake our national character,” a key objective of the Schmittian fascists.

 

In Bushzarro world, where up is down and black is white, such things are not only possible, they are increasingly likely as Bush nears the end of his reign of terror.

 

Al Qaeda Tapes: Direct Link To Military Psyops And Donald Rumsfeld

Following the trail for five minutes leads to Pentagon

 

Steve Watson | October 5 2006

 

Related Articles...

 

Related: Surprise Surprise, It's Another Al Qaeda Blockbuster Release

 

Related: Atta's Father Says Video Fake, Credibility of 'Hijackers Tape' Crumbles

 

and U.S. Government Caught Red-Handed Releasing Staged Al-Qaeda Videos

 

Following on from our three features on the latest dubious Al Qaeda video, We can reveal that further investigation into the origin of Al Qaeda video and tape release leads straight back to US military intelligence and Donald Rumsfeld.

 

The origin of the latest video, starring Mohammed Atta and flight 93 hijacker Ziad Jarrah, has been swept under the carpet by the mainstream media who bizarrely admit that the government has had the tape since late 2001 but still suggest it is a new release by Al Qaeda.

 

Interesting also is the fact that in an NBC article, they admit that before receiving the "exclusive US analysis" of the London Sunday Times' tape, they had filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the same tape of Atta earlier this year:

 

"The Sunday Times said it had obtained the video “through a previously tested channel” but gave no further details. NBC News filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the videotapes early this year, but the Pentagon has not yet turned them over. "

 

This is an open admission that it is the Pentagon that has released this tape and not Al Qaeda. this dovetails with our previous analysis that revealed that the footage has been seen before in a docudrama, the Road to Guantanamo, where it is shown to detainees at camp Delta as an intelligence surveillance tape.

 

Along with experts on Islamic terrorist groups who are baffled by the video and have declared that it has come from a security agency, the very journalist who received the tape also says the source was not Al Qaeda.

 

It is also interesting that this journalist, Yousri Fouda is not only a Sunday Times journalist but also the London Bureau Chief of Al Jazeera. He is the guy who normally breaks all the Al Qaeda tapes anyway, so really the London Times connection is just a smokescreen.

 

All evidence indicates that the tapes are provided to Fouda and Al Jazeera by As Sahab, the "production company" of Al Qaeda, via a group known as Intelcenter, who also SELL the videos online.

 

 

Intelcenter normally have the tapes available for sale as soon as they are released, indeed in the past they have even predicted when they are going to get a tape before it is released, as they did with the second London bomber tape on the anniversary of 7/7.

 

Intel center is run by Ben Venzke, who is an interesting character. A Google search results in the revelation that he used to be the director of intelligence at a company called IDEFENSE, which is a verisign company. IDEFENSE is a web security company that monitors intelligence from the middle east conflicts and focuses on cyber threats among other things.

 

It is also heavily populated with long serving ex military intelligence officials.

 

The Director of Threat intelligence, Jim Melnick, served 16 years in the US army and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and worked in psychological operations. From the IDEFENSE website:

 

Prior to joining iDefense, Mr. Melnick served with distinction for more than 16 years in the U.S. Army and the Defense Intelligence Agency. During this period, Mr. Melnick served in a variety of roles, including psychological operations, international warning issues with emphasis on foreign affairs and information operations and Russian affairs. He also served in active political/military intelligence roles with an emphasis on foreign affairs. Mr. Melnick is currently a U.S. Army Reserve Colonel with Military Intelligence, assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Mr. Melnick has been published in numerous military and foreign affairs journals, and has received numerous military and DIA awards. Mr. Melnick has a Master of Arts in National Security and Strategic Studies from the U.S. Naval War College, a Master of Arts in Russian studies from Harvard University, and a Bachelor of Arts with Honors in Political Science from Westminster College.

 

So here we have a company that by it's own admission has a senior military psy-op intelligence officer who has worked directly for Donald Rumsfeld. As Intelcenter and Ben Venzke are directly connected to IDEFENSE, this puts Rumsfeld 3 small steps away from the Al Qaeda propaganda videos.

 

The NBC "US analysis" should be the focus of the latest tape and not the Times articles. It is an astounding piece of psyop propaganda that attempts in a shoddy way to fill in the "gaps" in 9/11 intelligence. The analyst, Evan Coleman, after admitting that the Pentagon has been "sitting on it" goes on to say:

 

"It is important for people to watch and realize that this video is conclusive proof that 9/11 was orchestrated by Al Qaeda at the most senior levels."

 

He then makes a direct assault on the 9/11 truth movement by saying:

 

"This is the kind of video proof that is going to put a lot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists out in the cold and for good reason."

 

View the video below:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPgtn9ZAkf4

 

Coleman contradicts himself throughout his own report by saying the Pentagon has had the video since 2001 whilst still towing the line that it was Al Qaeda that released the video.

 

The U.S. government's role in obtaining and carefully stage-managing the dissemination of these tapes, many of them old footage re-released over and over again, is now without a doubt manifestly obvious and demands immediate Congressional investigation. Please spread this information wide and help us expose the most duplicitous and manipulative administration in history, a regime that is engaging in psychological warfare against the American people.

BUMP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M47EakvagQ&eurl=

 

Explosions Before WTC 7 Collapse?

 

Explosions heard before the collapse of WTC Building 7 - which imploded on the late afternoon of 9/11 but was not hit by a plane. Firefighters also discuss the imminent collapse of the building, saying it is "about to blow up".