Don't like ID cards? Hand over your passport

 

Anybody who objects to their personal details going on the new "Big Brother" ID cards database will be banned from having a passport.

James Hall, the official in charge of the supposedly-voluntary scheme, said the Government would allow people to opt out - but in return they must "forgo the ability" to have a travel document.

 

With one in every eight people saying they will refuse to sign-up, up to five million adults could effectively be refused permission to leave the country.

 

Campaigners reacted to Mr Hall's remarks with fury, saying they were yet more evidence of the lurch towards "Big Brother" Britain.

 

Phil Booth, of the NO2ID group, said: "The idea that ID cards scheme is voluntary, and people can opt-out, is a joke.

 

"There are all sorts of reasons why people need to travel, not just for holidays. There is work, visiting relatives.

 

"What are these people supposed to do? It stretches the definition of voluntary beyond breaking point. They will go to any length to get personal information for this huge database. Who knows what will happen to it then?"

 

Mr Hall, chief executive of the Identity and Passport Service, delivered his warning during a Downing Street "webchat".

 

One concerned member of the public, Andrew Michael Edwards, asked what would happen to people who refuse to join the £5.4 billion scheme.

 

Mr Hall replied: "There is no need to register and have fingerprints taken - but you will forgo the ability to have a passport".

 

Officials later explained the meaning of his remark.

 

The first ID cards will be issued in 2009, to anybody who applies for a passport.

 

People will be required to give fingerprints, biometric details such as a facial scan and a wealth of personal details - including second homes, driving licence and insurance numbers.

 

All will be stored on a giant ID cards Register, which can be accessed by accredited Whitehall departments, banks and businesses.

 

While The ID Cards Bill was going through Parliament, peers agreed an "opt out" with Ministers for people who needed a passport, but did not want to participate in the ID cards scheme.

 

It was the only way the Lords would accept the legislation, amid howls of concern that it represents yet another move towards a surveillance society.

 

But, as Mr Hall's comments this week make clear, the opt-out only applies to being physically issued with a card.

 

In order to get a passport, people will still have to hand over all their personal details for storage on the ID cards Register - where they will be treated in the same was as those who agreed to sign-up.

 

They simply avoid getting the card - even though they will have to pay the full combined price of £93 for an ID card and passport.

 

It means that, despite the Government repeatedly insisting the scheme is voluntary, the only way to avoid signing-up is to never obtain or renew a passport.

BUMP

yeah that is utterly disgusting, the same thing is being proposed her in australia, not with the passport thing, but an id card which totally nullifies any civil liberties.

 

all that made me do when you posted thatw as think of v for vendetta and how similar the world may become to what that movie shows... its very disconsorting...

wow!

 

did you know that in some places.. (well here in NY) even the library has a photo ID record of you!! MMhhmmmm I guess they really want to keep a 'profile' of the things you read as well.... they always have, but now they have a 'face' to go with the name......

 

 

nice. :dozey:

yeah same her with me for my student concession card for public transport. like its nopt enough that i might wear school uniform but i could still get fined if i didnt have a government card that costs me $8 each year. its disgraceful. the state of politics is disgusting

It's not much of a choice then.

nup. thats the unfortunate part. what ever happened to the french revolution. democracy. pfftttt.....

ID Refusniks To Be Prisoners In Their Own Country

"Voluntary" system means UK citizens can refuse ID cards, as long as they don't plan on taking a vacation

 

Steve Watson

Infowars.net

Tuesday, March 13, 2007

 

 

People who attempt to resist the forthcoming Big Brother ID card and database system in the UK will never be able to leave the country according to the Government official in charge of the scheme.

 

As the UK Daily Mail reported last weekend:

 

James Hall, the official in charge of the supposedly-voluntary scheme, said the Government would allow people to opt out - but in return they must "forgo the ability" to have a travel document.

 

As of 2009 anyone who applies for a passport in Britain will also be issued with an ID card, for which they must also provide fingerprints, biometric details such as a facial scan and a wealth of personal details - including second homes, driving licence and insurance numbers.

 

When asked what would happen to ID card refusniks, Mr Hall stated: "There is no need to register and have fingerprints taken - but you will forgo the ability to have a passport".

 

Critics have denounced the idea of such restriction of movement as a gross violation of human rights.

 

Just as we reported last January, a supposed "opt out" clause, which was demanded by the Lords in order for the ID cards bill to pass Parliament, will not matter a jot as it will only apply to the actual issuing of the plastic card.

 

At the time the ninnying liberal press reported this as a great "defeat" for the government, barely looking below the surface of what the actual bill said. Now it has been confirmed that although you can obtain a passport without an ID card, you must still provide the biometric data which will still be placed on the national database. In one final insult you must also pay the same elevated price as you would to obtain a combined passport/ID card.

 

The card is somewhat of of trojan horse, as under a so called government "compromise", anyone who renews a passport will have their details put on the national ID database - but will not have to get a card until 2010.

 

The government has also accounted for those who plan to renew their passports before ID cards start being issued.

 

Up until recently Britons were able to renew their passports for periods of ten years at any time. This meant that many were planning to renew right before it became compulsory to be issued with an ID card when renewing your passport in 2009, giving ten years of ID free existence.

 

The government has put the brakes on such tactics by simply announcing, with no debate or legislation, that passports can now only be renewed for 9 months in advance.

 

In further developments, more details emerged yesterday of how the government plans to sell access to personal information stored on the database to banks and other private companies, for around 60p a time, in order to finance the scheme which is expected to run into the billions according to studies by leading economic experts.

 

A top firm of headhunters is already working for the government, seeking a consultancy expert to market the benefits of the database to the private sector.

 

The government sold the idea of the ID card database by saying it would make our information more secure. Tony Blair said this would protect, not infringe our liberties.

 

Selling the information of 44 million British citizens to private companies. How secure and protecting is that?

 

Even the biometric information is to be outsourced as checks on applications and the like are to be shifted to places as far flung as Mumbai, Delhi and Islamabad.

 

Joe public will not be allowed access to the ID database but whichever companies the government sees fit to sell the information to will. And of course the intelligence services will be given unprecedented access. You will of course have "voluntarily" given up your details, thus you will have no course of reciprocation at any time in the future.

 

 

 

 

Recently leaked Whitehall documents have shown that ID cards will not be officially made compulsory for more than a decade, under present plans.

 

“Compulsion will be triggered once 80% take-up is achieved in [the first quarter of] 2019,” they state. “It is assumed that, following compulsion, a 100% registration will be achieved two years later.”

 

The same documents also revealed that children as young as 11 will also have their fingerprints taken and stored, even though the ID card bill specifically only applies to adults above the age of 16.

 

The London Times reported:

 

The leaked Home Office plans show that the mass fingerprinting will start in 2010, with a batch of 295,000 youngsters who apply for passports.

 

The Home Office expects 545,000 children aged 11 and over to have their prints taken in 2011, with the figure settling at an annual 495,000 from 2014. Their fingerprints will be held on a database also used by the Immigration and Nationality Directorate to store the fingerprints of hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers.

 

By that time most children will be accustomed to giving up their fingerprints as it is now becoming commonplace in schools up and down the country. Much to the anger of many parents, some schools are doing this relatively covertly, in one case children were even told they were "playing spies" and not to tell their parents.

 

While unaware children are hoodwinked into being catalogued by the state, willing adult volunteers line up to lick the boots of the government who promise to keep them safe by taking scans of their eyeballs.

The government itself has admitted that the information WILL NOT keep us safe from fraud and identity theft, nor will it prevent terrorism.

 

So what exactly is the purpose of a biometric database?

 

Of course, if you demand an answer to this question and refuse the system you will be issued with huge fines, equating to figures beyond the average monthly salary of the majority of people in this country.

 

Furthermore, Town hall bureaucrats are to be given sweeping powers to investigate homes for identity card evasion and to impose heavy fines on occupants not registered on the database. The card is completely voluntary of course , yet if you say No to the ID card, the authorities will SWAT your home and you'll be crippled financially.

 

You'll also no doubt be denied the right to free health care and free education. Buying and selling will be made almost impossible as cash machines, supermarket checkouts and other everyday items are linked in with the ID card database. The Government has stated at various times that it feels ID card reading capability could be built into future generations of credit card readers and ATMs.

 

But the ID card will still be voluntary! You just won't be able to leave the country, own a house or a car, have a doctor, a bank account, a mobile phone, get an education, own a business, rent a room in a hotel, or have a job. You won't officially be authorized to live or die. But it's still voluntary!

ah well... so long as its voluntary then..... :dozey: <---sarcasm! just in case someone thought I was serious... :P

 

wow. just wow......

I guess this can go in this thread.....

Cashless society by 2012, says Visa chief

 

(The cashless society that has been predicted for nearly 15 years)

 

 

'Paying for goods with notes and coins could be consigned to history within five years, according to the chief executive of Visa Europe. Peter Ayliffe said that, by 2012, using credit and debit cards should be cheaper and more convenient than cash. Some retailers could soon start surcharging customers if they choose to buy products with cash, because of the greater cost of processing these payments, he warned.'

 

Read more ...

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2347411.ece

 

Cashless society by 2012, says Visa chief

By Tim Webb

Published: 11 March 2007

Paying for goods with notes and coins could be consigned to history within five years, according to the chief executive of Visa Europe.

 

Peter Ayliffe said that, by 2012, using credit and debit cards should be cheaper and more convenient than cash.

 

Some retailers could soon start surcharging customers if they choose to buy products with cash, because of the greater cost of processing these payments, he warned.

 

Visa Europe briefed the British Retail Consortium last month on new "contactless" cards that can be waved in front of a scanner to make small payments.

 

However, the consortium dismissed this vision and claimed that card processing fees, which regulators are investigating, are still too high.

 

One member of the consurtium said that the estimated "interchange" fee charged to retailers amounts to some 4p for each transaction.

 

Nick Mourant, treasurer at Tesco, said: "There is a duopoly between Mastercard and Visa in the UK. Their setting of fees is anti-competitive."

A "cashless" society will come into effect one day, but I don't think everything will cope by 2012. Some places still don't take plastic.

 

As for Passports, my passport runs out in January 2017, so no ID card for me :laugh3:

As for Passports, my passport runs out in January 2017, so no ID card for me :laugh3:

 

Nah, that's not how it works. You still will have to get your data onto the system, otherwise you won't be able to use your passport. It's either....have an I.D card with all your biometric data taken or have a passport with all your biometric data taken.

 

Or neither and risk being fined, give up the ability to travel and many other things.

This is appauling. The future looks bleak IMO, well for the UK anyway.

here you have to use a ID card since you're 18.. but most of the people have one since they're younger .. so it's not weird for me..

Yeah, Hong Kong have been running with ID cards for years, so I don't see it as a huge deal.

here you have to use a ID card since you're 18.. but most of the people have one since they're younger .. so it's not weird for me..

 

Thats probably because you have nothing to hide!

 

Whereas Gareth for example is probably shitting himself right now!!

I bet he regrets posting all that stuff now bout the US government.

 

Anyway, I dont have a drivers license and with so many places requiring you to have ID before you join etc, having an ID would be ideal, it'll fit in my wallet and I wont have to carry my passport to work, the gym, nightclubs etc.

 

It'd be easier for me for sure, but still the whole idea just reeks to me.

I have nothing to hide, and any hidden secrets of my family has already been found out by the governement when they were deciding whenever to give me security clearance to work on camp.

 

If you have nothing to hide, it's no drama. It's the security which will be the biggest issue for me.

Thats probably because you have nothing to hide!

 

not necerssarily. i've had an ID for years, in fact many swiss people dont have passports anymore. i didnt have one until i needed one to go to the czech republic. however it isnt quite what its going to be in the UK. they ask for the same details like when you wanna get a passport.

 

i read somewhere that this is gonna change though. theres gonna be a new passport because the us require passports with more details, fingerprints and that stuff, is this true?:thinking:

Yes, that is true Sally.

 

As of 2009 anyone who applies for a passport in Britain will also be issued with an ID card, for which they must also provide fingerprints, biometric details such as a facial scan and a wealth of personal details - including second homes, driving licence and insurance numbers.

Anyone who renews a passport will have their details put on the national ID database - but will not have to get a card until 2010.

 

The government has also accounted for those who plan to renew their passports before ID cards start being issued.

 

Up until recently passports lasted for periods of ten years at any time. This meant that many were planning to renew right before it became compulsory to be issued with an ID card when renewing your passport in 2009, giving ten years of ID free existence.

The government has put the brakes on such tactics by simply announcing, with no debate or legislation, that passports can now only be renewed for 9 months in advance.

a friend from liverpool sent me that link to a homepage of a group campaigning against ID cards. some of the information's quite interesting.

 

somehow i prefer the old site.

http://www.liverpool-defy-id.org.uk/oldsite/

http://www.liverpool-defy-id.org.uk/

 

i really hope we won't get them IDs in our country but its probably only a matter of time.

Isn't it from next month when new applicants for passports have actually got to to go to a localish passport "interview" office?

Yes.

Thought so.

Technology really scares me, sometimes. What's really frightening is who will have access to this information? I don't live in the UK, but I have relatives who reside in the area, and I'm sure they won't be very thrilled about this at all.

 

And they're seriously going to withhold passports for millions of British citizens? :shocked2: