Labour suffers big council losses

[busybeeburns]

Labour looks set to come third nationwide, BBC research suggests

 

RESULTS ROUND-UP

General turnout looks like it will be about 35%, similar to last year

Projected national vote share: Tories 44%, Lib Dems 25%, Labour 24%

Worst share of national vote for Labour in recent history

Surprise Tory win in Southampton and solid progress in north

Greens and BNP make little progress nationally, UKIP up 1

 

Labour is on course to suffer its worst performance in at least 40 years in the local elections in England and Wales.

 

BBC research suggests the party has fallen into third place nationally with 24% of votes, with the Conservatives on 44% and Lib Dems on 25%.

 

So far Labour has lost more than 160 seats with the Tories gaining 147.

 

Conservative leader David Cameron called it a "big moment". Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman said the results were "very disappointing indeed".

 

But Labour's chief whip Geoff Hoon insisted there was "no crisis" for Gordon Brown.

 

'Exceptional results'

 

The margin is similar to the drubbing received by Tory Prime Minister John Major in council elections in 1995, two years before he was ejected from Downing Street by Tony Blair.

 

Elections expert John Curtice, of Strathclyde University, said: "It looks quite possible that by the time all the results are declared some time on Friday afternoon, Labour will have suffered at least 200 net losses, widely regarded before polling day as the worst possible outcome that could befall the party."

 

BBC Political Editor Nick Robinson said all sides believe Conservative candidate Boris Johnson will win the London mayoral election. Counting has just started and the results are not due until early evening.

 

The fate of Mr Johnson, Labour incumbent Ken Livingstone and Lib Dem contender Brian Paddick, will be closely watched for signs of how popular their parties are nationally.

 

In the local elections so far, the Tories have a net increase of more than 140 councillors and a 4% higher share of the national vote than at last year's local polls.

 

Such a share in a general election would have the potential to give the party a Commons majority of 138.

 

Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said: "These are exceptional results and this could be the lowest Labour share of the vote in the modern history of local elections. This is a big step forward."

 

'Not greatest night'

 

The Tories have gained control of several councils including Southampton, Bury, Harlow and Maidstone.

 

BBC analysis suggests Labour's vote appears to have fallen most heavily in its traditional heartlands - confirming MPs' fears the 10p tax row has damaged their core support.

 

Ministers were trying to put a brave face on the results and pledging to listen to voters' concerns.

 

Ms Harman told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the results had been "very disappointing indeed", but said the elections had taken place against a background of rising economic concerns.

 

"We didn't respond early enough to those groups of people who were going to lose out as a result of the change in the 10p rate which overall benefits lower income people but there were some people who lost out and we didn't react early enough," she said.

 

"We've got to be more focused on listening to people and more in touch.

 

"There's nobody with more experience and commitment to take this economy through difficult times than Gordon Brown."

 

Mr Hoon said: "There's no crisis. This isn't something that's going to affect the fundamental stability of the government.

 

"We have to go on making the difficult decisions the country requires."

 

Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg told BBC Breakfast: "We were 13% a few months ago, we're now 25%. We've over-taken Labour, we've taken seats off the Conservatives, we've taken seats off Labour... If you call that a disappointment then we inhabit different planets. I am actually delighted, we are regaining momentum."

 

Deputy leader Vince Cable said: "The important thing is that we've beaten Labour into third place."

 

London contest

 

More than 4,000 seats on 159 councils were up for grabs in Thursday's elections, as well as the London mayoralty and assembly.

 

All seats are up for election in the 22 Welsh unitary authorities.

 

Meanwhile, a BBC opinion poll suggests Tory leader David Cameron is seen as more effective than Mr Brown or Mr Clegg.

 

Of 1,005 people who took part in the poll, 68% said Mr Cameron was an asset to his party, compared with 43% for Mr Clegg and 42% for Mr Brown.

 

Mr Brown's reputation for economic competence has also taken a blow.

 

At this time last year 48% said that Labour could be trusted to run the country's economy, little different from the 53% who did so in 2002. But this year the figure has fallen to 32%.

 

However, only 36% said they trust the Conservatives to run the economy - 10 points down on last year, and little better than the figure of 32% recorded for the party in 2002.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7372860.stm

[Black Rose]

Comeon Boris!!!

[EasyToPlease]

Comeon Boris!!!

 

Oh dear.

 

Let's see how funny casual racism and public school buffoonery are when they're commonplace in the governance of the country's capital rather than on our TV screens.

 

The man has just been handed a 39 billion pound transport budget, and his only policy is to bring back routemaster buses, which were removed primarily because they were about 10 times worse polluters than the bendy buses that replaced them. Talk about standing in the way of progression.

 

Commiserations London, but I guess you've only yourself to blame. Will you still be seen as a multicultural 'world city' after four years with a racist toff in charge? Hmmmm.....

[Fixed]

There'll a BNP Prime Minister before ya know it. I don't get why people vote for morons. What the f**k is wrong with this country and the people that inhabit it.

[bart]

I dont think the people will ever forgive Labour about the war in Iraq

[chuck kottke]

umm..

 

How ironic.. Here it's just the opposite basically. I gather the citizens just want change, but unfortunately, the change you get might not be the change you want or need. And then came the nightmares. I think you've got it, Bart. Funny, how everything else seems to slide, when a single issue becomes weighted so heavily..

What I cannot figure out is why wouldn't everyone disgusted with Blair's performance & Labor simply vote for the Liberal Democrats instead?? Are there that many new millionaires in Great Britain who find themselves feeling like Tories?? I dunno. another sway one way, but I'm sure the next election will bring things around.. Boris? Isn't that a Russian name??:stunned:

[Texasluvsjonny]

Boris won....WTF? :confused:

[busybeeburns]

Boris Johnson the most powerful Conservative in the country...... great :rolleyes:

[EasyToPlease]

What I cannot figure out is why wouldn't everyone disgusted with Blair's performance & Labor simply vote for the Liberal Democrats instead?? Are there that many new millionaires in Great Britain who find themselves feeling like Tories?? I dunno. another sway one way, but I'm sure the next election will bring things around.. Boris? Isn't that a Russian name??:stunned:

 

I think that's a good question, but, just as labour changed their key audience in 1997, now Cameron is broadening his party's horizons. also, sadly, it's all to with public image - Cameron's young, a great orator and never misses a photo opportunity. Brown seems uncomfortable in the public gaze, very much lives up to his stereotype as dour and stubborn. It doesn't matter that the policies that Brown suggests are more progressive than Cameron's, the way he's presenting them isn't exciting key voters. As for lib dems, their image has been badly damaged by internal infighting and a lack of direction.

 

Furthermore, it's a lot easier being in opposition - the tories don't have to deal with things when they go wrong, instead they can sit back and criticize. Some of those things are actually beyond the control of any political figure within this country, such as the economic difficulties we're currently threatened by, (house market, northern rock, rising food costs) are entirely global issues that are affecting every first world country. However, that's not how the public perceive it - they see things going wrong, and without questioning why they go wrong, automatically blame the government.

 

Also, it makes me laugh when people blame 'the government' meaning labour, when of course labour are just the majority party within the government - the government encompasses all elected mps, including tories, labour, green, lib dems and unfortunately bnp/UKIP.

[EasyToPlease]

I dont think the people will ever forgive Labour about the war in Iraq

 

If only that were true. Whilst it will never be forgotten, that Labour got in again in 2005 suggests it didn't stop their chances of winning election.

 

No, Labour are being blamed for things out of their control, and some dithering by Brown on big decisions - most significantly his failure to call an election last year. Displayed a distinct lack of balls.

[Black Rose]

If only that were true. Whilst it will never be forgotten, that Labour got in again in 2005 suggests it didn't stop their chances of winning election.

 

No, Labour are being blamed for things out of their control, and some dithering by Brown on big decisions - most significantly his failure to call an election last year. Displayed a distinct lack of balls.

 

They only won in 2005 because:

1 - Did you want Mr. Howard as PM?

2 - They promised the vote on the EU Treaty, something the unelected Mr. Brown has forgotten.

[Black Rose]

The new generation of Routemasters will be better than Bendy Buses. Bendy buses are okay, but they weren't designed for use within London's narrow streets.

 

At least Boris will get rid of the planned changes to the congestion charge, changing from a flat rate of £8 a day with some vehicles excluded from the rate to a tax based on the co2 output, which would have increased congestion as all the small cars whom will be able to get into the zone without paying will start coming back in.

[EasyToPlease]

They only won in 2005 because:

something the unelected Mr. Brown has forgotten.

 

in this country you don't vote for the prime minister, you vote for who you want to represent your local area. the government is therefore made up of local mps, and the ruling party is the one which has the most mps. that party is then free to chose it's leader. when people voted in 2005 they were voting on a local basis, and labour won enough to retain a majority in parliament. at the time blair was leader, and now brown is, but neither were elected per se by the country, both were chosen as leader of their party by their party - you don't ever vote for a prime minister you vote for who you want to be a local mp.

 

thus brown is as elected as blair was, as cameron will be, as thatcher was, as churchill was, and so on and so forth.

 

the congestion charge and bendy buses are movements towards a far more progressive policy in reducing carbon outputs, and you seem to have bought into boris' rhetoric - 'london's narrow streets', well, these bendy buses have been in place for a good couple of years now without problems, and last time i checked, london was a modern city and most of its streets were perfectly wide enough to accommodate the new buses.

 

boris is, like all tories, trying to play nostalgia as an excuse to prevent change.

 

in ken, london had one of the most forward thinking politicians of our generation, one who truly is honest (sometimes cruelly so) and commited to ensuring london remains a city that includes all cultures, competes financially but also LEADS rather than FOLLOWS other world cities in term of dealing with the pressing issue of our age - global warming.

 

boris' stunted vision will destroy this in months, nay weeks.

 

Armchair politicians....

[Black Rose]

Bendy Buses use more fuel and put out more co2 than the old routemasters :P

 

Yes it's true people vote for the mps, but most of the time they vote for the mp which stands for the party they want to win, at that time was led by Mr Blair, if Mr Brown had a leadership contest, then it wouldn't be as bad.

 

The Congestion Charge was bought in to reduce Congestion in the city (hence the name congestion charge), which makes sense, however by turning it into a free for cars under 120gkm and making it more expensive for cars over 230gkm, your causing more congestion by allowing all those smaller cars to come into the city for free, whereas before they would have avoided the city, to avoid the charge.

 

Human's causing the global warming is a myth, the planet is heating up due to the increased activity by the sun, it's a natural cycle which has happened in the past, all the governement is doing is using it as an excuse to raise taxes.

[Texasluvsjonny]

Could never understand the congestion charge. They want a fiver for someone's car then serve beer, beans and eggs everywhere in London. I think most of the pollution is in the form of farts. :lol:

[Black Rose]

Most of the pollution came from the older black cabs.

[EasyToPlease]

Bendy Buses use more fuel and put out more co2 than the old routemasters :P

 

No they don't. I'm willing to concede that you have a point with the congestion charge comments, but bendy buses certainly have a lower output of co2, use cleaner fuel than the diesel on which most routemasters were run, and carry far more passengers than routemasters.

 

 

Human's causing the global warming is a myth, the planet is heating up due to the increased activity by the sun, it's a natural cycle which has happened in the past, all the governement is doing is using it as an excuse to raise taxes.

 

There has been cycles of warming and cooling before yes, but never to the same extent, or at such a rapid rate as now. It's a bit of a redundant argument really - even persistent global warming deniers such as george bush are now aknowledging that yes, we do have a problem.

 

Furthermore, whether you believe that humans are or aren't the main cause of global warming, reducing emissions is still a positive thing to do if it slows down or reduces the effect of global warming. Not to mention the fact that in a lot of cases saving energy translates directly into saving you money. (although admittedly this is sometimes in the long term rather than the short)

 

And using it as an excuse to raise taxes - taxes that are then spent on combating global warming?! How would that make sense? Green taxes are actually very low compared to almost every other form of taxation. Furthermore, many green taxes are decided upon by local councils, so to blame the government for all of them would be folly.

 

Anyway, I realise I'm being a bit ranty and sharp with some of that, and I don't like to do that cos regardless of what you believe the argument is political not personal, and all that jazz.

[Black Rose]

and carry far more passengers than routemasters.

 

Only because they are far bigger than routemasters (18 metres compared to 9 metres), which is the main problem, even with the bends the roads of London were not designed to cope with 18 metre long buses, the roads of London were designed to cope with horse and carts

 

But if they do replace the bendy buses, can they send some down to Hampshire to replace stagecoach's ageing fleet of buses?

 

BTW Routemasters with updated engines do 8 mpg on average, bendy buses due to the added weight can only do 5.5 mpg on average

[EasyToPlease]

Only because they are far bigger than routemasters (18 metres compared to 9 metres), which is the main problem, even with the bends the roads of London were not designed to cope with 18 metre long buses, the roads of London were designed to cope with horse and carts

 

Hmmm, well only time will tell, but as i said earlier of the couple of years they've been in place there seems to have been very few problems with the size of the bendy buses - a couple of high profile incidents yes, but no evidence to say that they cause more accidents than any other form of transport. furthermore, they've been in york (where I live when I'm not at uni) for a good four or five years without any issue, and if anything york's a city built upon narrow and twisted streets.

 

london's a modern city, the majority of its roads have been updated sufficiently to allow for the huge amount of cars that use them, and certainly when i've visited around april the streets were plenty large enough to accommodate large vehicles - lorries, bendy buses, the lot. maybe there are some areas which are too twisted/thin - but surely the solution is to use single coaches/buses in these areas and bendy buses in the others. In fact aren't there still some Routemasters in place in some areas - I caught one outside St. Paul's I think. Although that may have been for tourism purposes.

 

Gosh David, anyone not interested in our conversation must think we're a right pair of transport fanatics. Going trainspotting tomorrow as well... ;-)

[Black Rose]

Could never understand the congestion charge. They want a fiver for someone's car then serve beer, beans and eggs everywhere in London. I think most of the pollution is in the form of farts. :lol:

 

Originally the congestion charge was to tackle congestion in the city, with a flat rate of £5 a day/50p a day for residents, with certain vehicle types excluded from the charge.

 

But sometimes it doesn't really work, take the Newbury By-Pass for example, where traffic levels in the town dipped after the by-pass opened has increased to about 85% of the pre-bypass levels, but it's still a wonderful stretch of road.

[Black Rose]

Hmmm, well only time will tell, but as i said earlier of the couple of years they've been in place there seems to have been very few problems with the size of the bendy buses - a couple of high profile incidents yes, but no evidence to say that they cause more accidents than any other form of transport. furthermore, they've been in york (where I live when I'm not at uni) for a good four or five years without any issue, and if anything york's a city built upon narrow and twisted streets.

 

london's a modern city, the majority of its roads have been updated sufficiently to allow for the huge amount of cars that use them, and certainly when i've visited around april the streets were plenty large enough to accommodate large vehicles - lorries, bendy buses, the lot. maybe there are some areas which are too twisted/thin - but surely the solution is to use single coaches/buses in these areas and bendy buses in the others. In fact aren't there still some Routemasters in place in some areas - I caught one outside St. Paul's I think. Although that may have been for tourism purposes.

 

Gosh David, anyone not interested in our conversation must think we're a right pair of transport fanatics. Going trainspotting tomorrow as well... ;-)

 

I prefer trains to buses, living near the railway tracks where steam trains run past nearly every weekend

[chuck kottke]

Steam trains, not Diesel-electrics?? These are excursion trains then??

[chuck kottke]

I think that's a good question, but, just as labour changed their key audience in 1997, now Cameron is broadening his party's horizons. also, sadly, it's all to with public image - Cameron's young, a great orator and never misses a photo opportunity. Brown seems uncomfortable in the public gaze, very much lives up to his stereotype as dour and stubborn. It doesn't matter that the policies that Brown suggests are more progressive than Cameron's, the way he's presenting them isn't exciting key voters. As for lib dems, their image has been badly damaged by internal infighting and a lack of direction.

 

Furthermore, it's a lot easier being in opposition - the tories don't have to deal with things when they go wrong, instead they can sit back and criticize. Some of those things are actually beyond the control of any political figure within this country, such as the economic difficulties we're currently threatened by, (house market, northern rock, rising food costs) are entirely global issues that are affecting every first world country. However, that's not how the public perceive it - they see things going wrong, and without questioning why they go wrong, automatically blame the government.

 

Also, it makes me laugh when people blame 'the government' meaning labour, when of course labour are just the majority party within the government - the government encompasses all elected mps, including tories, labour, green, lib dems and unfortunately bnp/UKIP.

Sounds like here back when Clinton and the Democrats held control in our Congress. Basically, the conservative could just sit back and criticize, throw spitballs, and trump up charges. And true here as well - forces generally beyond political control (although, in some ways had there been more common ground on the issues affecting fuel costs, housing gambling, and food costs, then these important issues would have been ameliorated to some extent..). So, what do people do when they feel a pinch? Blame the government, naturally! Vote for the other party! But of course, the blame game is ridiculous - funny how the same process is at work in you nation as well! And thus, the people vote against their own interests - and the liberal-democrats spend a lot of time jabbing at each-other (sounds familiar as well..) so they weaken themselves.. So, basically, is there any hope of improving how the voting public understands things? Here, all the important issues go generally undiscussed, as we defer to the politics of personal attacks.. Is there more substantive debate in you elections, or has it all been reduced to TV ads and cow-chip throwing contests like we have slumped to?

Looking for a ray of hope..

 

 

[bart]

The war Damaged Blair.. and even though he won on 2005 the "purpoted" lie never went away, I always knew that Brown has not got it when it comes to being in front of the press which is very important.

 

If blair had not gone to war, I still think he would be PM now with Brown accepting he would not be cut out for the job despite the agrement him and blair had.

[EasyToPlease]

I prefer trains to buses, living near the railway tracks where steam trains run past nearly every weekend

 

I do actually bloody love trains - wrote my dissertation on 'railways and the Victorian concept of modernity'... my girlfriend's family do think i'm obsessed and go trainspotting though, which isn't the case... yet! ;-)

 

@Chuck Kotte: Very interesting post - I think most western politics are becoming increasingly carried out this way, although hopefully not to the extend of Italy, where governments are replaced by the opposition so frequently, until people quickly tire of the opposition now in charge, and replace them again after a year or so, and so on and so forth.

 

I do think (hope!) that the way in which politics and election campaigns are conducted will change, although I don't see when or how that change is going to come about!