Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 Violence is necessary sometimes. And he did something to free his country from slavery and that medieval like system. So I think he gets fair enough attention. Fail thread. i just think it's weird terrorism is ok if you sympathise with the perpetrators, but if you don't agree it's the most evil thing in the world. and as for the violence, i don't agree that murder is acceptable personally unless in self defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 wow, well done :rolleyes: let's get back on topic lol im sorry, i cant get back on track because i dont know enough about the subject. I know that the SA government favoured white people and was guilty of racism so I have no sympathy for them, as for him being a terrorist I think if it happened the other way round in the UK/USA then we would support another mandela. Again im totally ignorant of the actual event, i dont even know if he went against the government for racism, but you've inspired me to educate myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 There wasn't any other way for them to gain freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickle Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I'm still not exactly sure who he was. Some guy who sat in jail for freedom or something? And helped the rugby team. :awesome: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 i just think it's weird terrorism is ok if you sympathise with the perpetrators, but if you don't agree it's the most evil thing in the world. and as for the violence, i don't agree that murder is acceptable personally unless in self defence. yeh interesting point. I think if i were oppressed im my own country and treated like a second class citizen that was ruining my quality of like i would want to stop that happening, if murder was the only way then so be it, Id rather that than watch my family and everyone around me be degraded and bullied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I'm still not exactly sure who he was. Some guy who sat in jail for freedom or something? And helped the rugby team. :awesome: wow you know even less than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMagpie Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Yeah I wouldn't say they were racist. I never got into asking them why they didn't like him. But I was in elementary and didn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 There wasn't any other way for them to gain freedom. i respect this and i am all for what he fought for, i'm just confused about the way he is now perceived considering the way he went about it. as far as i'm aware, the new setup that he fought for didn't make terrorism and what mandela did legal. i think he deserves respect for fighting for what he believed in and i agree with the cause he fought for, but he has won the nobel peace prize and is possibly the most respected man in the world. i just don't get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotdensestate Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Well, he was one of the people responsible for removing the apartheid government wasn't he?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Yeah I wouldn't say they were racist. I never got into asking them why they didn't like him. But I was in elementary and didn't care. I dont know about everyone else but i wasnt even aware of racism at that age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 i respect this and i am all for what he fought for, i'm just confused about the way he is now perceived considering the way he went about it. as far as i'm aware, the new setup that he fought for didn't make terrorism and what mandela did legal. i think he deserves respect for fighting for what he believed in and i agree with the cause he fought for, but he has won the nobel peace prize and is possibly the most respected man in the world. i just don't get it He wasn't a terrorist, just because the government says someone is a menace doesn't mean he's a criminal. Well, he was one of the people responsible for removing the apartheid government wasn't he?? Yes he was like a great symbol of the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 He wasn't a terrorist, just because the government says someone is a menace doesn't mean he's a criminal. he plotted to blow up the government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 he plotted to blow up the government But if the jews had plotted to blow up the nazi government would that have been terrorism? i know they are different but im just trying to make that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 It's like saying Luke Skywalker is a bad guy. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Well I would have done the same it the government were composed of a bunch of racist morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 But if the jews had plotted to blow up the nazi government would that have been terrorism? i know they are different but im just trying to make that point. exactly my point it's all about perception had german prisoners of war escaped by murdering guards they would have been heroes on one side and evil on the other side. there is a slight difference there as the jews were being killed in their millions whereas mandela and the people he was fighting for were slaves (which is awful of course). it just all seems a little hypocritical and contradictory to have him as a figurehead for peace when he did what he did. i am not against what he did in particular, just how he has been deified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 Well I would have done the same it the government were composed of a bunch of racist morons. fair enough, but would you expect to receive the nobel peace prize and live the life mandela has lived after your release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Sure. But he brought up other ideals, and he did not actually blow up the government nor organized a bloody revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 exactly my point it's all about perception had german prisoners of war escaped by murdering guards they would have been heroes on one side and evil on the other side. there is a slight difference there as the jews were being killed in their millions whereas mandela and the people he was fighting for were slaves (which is awful of course). it just all seems a little hypocritical and contradictory to have him as a figurehead for peace when he did what he did. i am not against what he did in particular, just how he has been deified. Ok i take your point of perspective, and of course the holocaust was tenfold times worse but the universal perspective now is both those governments were totally wrong, which is why he is respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 Sure. But he brought up other ideals, and he did not actually blow up the government nor organized a bloody revolution. he only didn't blow them up because he was arrested for plotting to. had he not had to go on the run the odds are he would have done. if a guy got done for plotting a terrorist attack in america do you think he would be let off? he was the leader of an anti-government group. if that isn't trying to organise a revolution i don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 He fought for basic human rights, I think he deserves all the respect he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 This ^^ Besudes It's not like USA segregates people like SA did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 Ok i take your point of perspective, and of course the holocaust was tenfold times worse but the universal perspective now is both those governments were totally wrong, which is why he is respected. but why is he respected so much and this side of his life not spoken about? he walked around with a gun which he fortunately didn't have to use. certain extremist muslims believe that they are right in their attacks on america, so is it ok for them to do what they do? my point is perspective doesn't matter. if you plot to try and blow up the government you don't deserve the nobel peace price. gandhi on the other hand i can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Myshkin Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 He fought for basic human rights, I think he deserves all the respect he gets. he has admitted to breaking human rights himself in trying to achieve these human rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher Martin Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 he has admitted to breaking human rights himself in trying to achieve these human rights Ok firstly you cannot compare the muslim agenda with mandela's, One is based on a book, the other on the struggle for Human rights and freedom. America and the old SA government are not in the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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