AV or NOT AV? That is the question..........

[mc_squared]

Most voters have not even heard of the AV battle, warns Cameron

 

 

By James Chapman

Last updated at 9:33 AM on 19th April 2011

 

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David Cameron admitted yesterday that millions of voters have not realised the AV referendum is even taking place as senior Tories threatened to challenge a ‘yes’ vote on a derisory turnout.

 

The Prime Minister revealed that when he had asked customers at his local pub how they intended to vote, they had no idea what he was talking about.

 

He signalled that the result of the electoral reform vote – only the second national referendum in British history – will have to be implemented regardless of how many voters take part.

 

 

David Cameron revealed that when he had asked customers at his local pub how they intended to vote on the AV referendum, they had no idea what he was talking about

 

But Mr Cameron said it was his ‘democratic duty’ to urge as many people as possible to vote to reject AV, in which candidates must be ranked in order of preference.

 

He warned voters not to let Britain ‘sleepwalk’ into an end to the principle of ‘one person, one vote’.

 

Polls indicate a strong lead for the no campaign, with an ICM survey for the Guardian today suggesting that 58 per cent of people intend to vote no and 42 per cent yes.

 

More...

 

 

• Just when you thought AV couldn't get any more confusing... Labour bruiser Reid teams up with Cameron (and Miliband cosies up to Cable)
  
• Want to meet Nick Clegg? That'll be £25,000, say Lib Dems
  
• If I am sacked I can double my income, brags Cable
  

 

But the Prime Minister betrayed fears among senior Tories that the outcome could be skewed by a small turnout and different numbers of people taking part in various parts of Britain.

 

An ICM survey for the Guardian today suggests that 58 per cent of people intend to vote no and 42 per cent yes on the AV

 

Campaigners for a no vote privately concede that as few as 20 per cent of voters could vote in some areas, such as London.

 

Senior MPs are signalling that they could oppose legislation to introduce AV based on a strong yes vote in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland where turnout will be boosted by parliamentary and assembly elections on the same day.

 

Tory MP Eleanor Laing claimed the result may not be considered ‘legitimate’. She warned Mr Cameron: ‘Yes, there would be a result, but it will be called into question.

 

Surely you cannot think that is ok for democracy.’

 

Mr Cameron – who agreed to Nick Clegg’s demand for a referendum on AV as the price of sharing power – yesterday described the unwillingness of many voters to engage in the debate as a ‘problem’.

 

He said: ‘I stopped a group of five people at a pub in my constituency at the weekend and asked what they thought about this AV referendum, and literally not one of the five had heard of it.’

 

Mr Cameron said AV would make coalition governments ‘much, much more likely’.

 

The traditional ‘first past the post’ system tended to deliver coalitions only in times of national crisis, such as the two world wars, the Great Depression and today’s financial crisis, Mr Cameron said.

 

‘But let’s be clear that while a coalition in exceptional circumstances is one thing, and I would argue a good thing, more frequent coalitions in all circumstances is quite another,’ he added.

 

Labour leader Ed Miliband, sharing a yes campaign platform with Business Secretary Vince Cable, urged voters not to turn the ballot into a referendum on Mr Clegg. Instead, he claimed it was a battle between ‘hope and fear’.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378282/AV-referendum-David-Cameron-says-voters-heard-it.html#ixzz1Jxyn7iLY

[a_face_of_light]

No one really cares, it amazes me how Labour are ahead in most opinion polls despite numerous fuck ups during thier last tenure in power and having a stuttering halfwit as thier leader, the fact that Ed Milliband could be the next PM is a scary thought. Most of the electorate arn't interested in the AV poll.

[mc_squared]

No one really cares, it amazes me how Labour are ahead in most opinion polls despite numerous fuck ups during thier last tenure in power and having a stuttering halfwit as thier leader, the fact that Ed Milliband could be the next PM is a scary thought. Most of the electorate arn't interested in the AV poll.

 

Nor are they interested in ANY of the main parties, because they don't trust any of them whatsoever.:dozey:

[Prince Myshkin]

The Prime Minister revealed that when he had asked customers at his local pub how they intended to vote, they had no idea what he was talking about.

 

Hmmm, this story seems somewhat loaded in the sense that DC doesn't have a local pub and they are trying to make him out to be an 'everyday guy'.

 

And don't bother making a 'loaded'/drunk pun Mark.

 

I'll have a proper debate when we get some proper journalism.

[Black Rose]

Hmmm, this story seems somewhat loaded in the sense that DC doesn't have a local pub and they are trying to make him out to be an 'everyday guy'.

 

And don't bother making a 'loaded'/drunk pun Mark.

 

I'll have a proper debate when we get some proper journalism.

 

He has a local pub...

 

...The Commons Bar ;)

[Black Rose]

No one really cares, it amazes me how Labour are ahead in most opinion polls despite numerous fuck ups during thier last tenure in power and having a stuttering halfwit as thier leader, the fact that Ed Milliband could be the next PM is a scary thought. Most of the electorate arn't interested in the AV poll.

 

Sadly most people can't remember that it was Labour which took the country to the edge forcing the Tories to make the unpopular cuts to try and get the country back in black, so come 2015 Labour will return to power funded by the unions to bring the country back down to it's knees with overspending on various rubbish.

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

No one really cares, it amazes me how Labour are ahead in most opinion polls despite numerous fuck ups during thier last tenure in power and having a stuttering halfwit as thier leader, the fact that Ed Milliband could be the next PM is a scary thought. Most of the electorate arn't interested in the AV poll.

 

Given the scathing criticism the government have come in for the last year Labour should really have a much bigger lead in the opinion polls. But they don't and as far as Ed Miliband is still leader of that party they won't be getting back in to power any time soon.

 

As for the AV campaign, well the NO campaign will probably win it but at the moment there's much more important matters that this country has to deal with.

[a_face_of_light]

Given the scathing criticism the government have come in for the last year Labour should really have a much bigger lead in the opinion polls. But they don't and as far as Ed Miliband is still leader of that party they won't be getting back in to power any time soon.

 

As for the AV campaign, well the NO campaign will probably win it but at the moment there's much more important matters that this country has to deal with.

 

I don't think the Coalition have made that many mistakes, yes the cuts are going to be unpopular but if they manage to get the Countrys economy in a better state and there is a feelgood factor at the time, and they manage to draw attention to the many mistakes and the fact that it was Labour who saddled us with debt and made the cuts needed I would think there would be a Conservative majority at the next election, that's a big if though, I'm not a huge Tory supporter but I definatly think they seem to be a more sensible choice overall.

[Prince Myshkin]

:laugh3:

Bias.

Can't be bothered with this thread.

[mc_squared]

Given the scathing criticism the government have come in for the last year Labour should really have a much bigger lead in the opinion polls. But they don't and as far as Ed Miliband is still leader of that party they won't be getting back in to power any time soon.

 

As for the AV campaign, well the NO campaign will probably win it but at the moment there's much more important matters that this country has to deal with.

 

You mean the royal wedding?:rolleyes:

[Fixed]

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-if-you-get-the-x-factor-youll-get-av-2271058.html

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

We all know the BNP are siding with the No to AV campaign because they know that it'd scare people from voting no. They are very much a Yes to AV party.

[Black Rose]

In order of the potential new system I shall be ranking my choices

 

No - 1

Yes - 2

[iPsy]

Sadly most people can't remember that it was Labour which took the country to the edge forcing the Tories to make the unpopular cuts to try and get the country back in black, so come 2015 Labour will return to power funded by the unions to bring the country back down to it's knees with overspending on various rubbish.

 

This.

[mc_squared]

Apparently the "apathy" campaign is winning by a landslide........................ :rolleyes:

 

AV = Apathy Vote !!:P

[Prince Myshkin]

Waiting for the results.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13280105

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

Are we expecting a big no vote as some news outlets have said? I wonder.

 

That said the No Campaign I believe ran a much better campaign than the Yes campaign. The Labour side even put up a No advert on this website!

[mc_squared]

Are we expecting a big no vote as some news outlets have said? I wonder.

 

That said the No Campaign I believe ran a much better campaign than the Yes campaign. The Labour side even put up a No advert on this website!

 

No way!:stunned:

[a_face_of_light]

Are we expecting a big no vote as some news outlets have said? I wonder.

 

I didn't bother.

[mc_squared]

Is this the end of the road for Nick Clegg? Lib Dem leader faces first call to resign after party loses hundreds of seats in humiliating elections

 

 

By James White

 

Last updated at 4:38 PM on 6th May 2011

 

 

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• Lib Dems lose 455 seats, with Labour gaining 542 and Conservatives up 52
  
• Deputy PM: 'We have taken a real knock' as he loses home city of Sheffield
  
• Worst election performance by Liberal Democrats since late 1980s
  
• Cameron: 'We fought a strong campaign explaining Labour's mess
  
• Every standing Lib Dem councillor loses seat on Manchester Council
  
• Labour punished in Scottish Parliament poll but gain a number of councils
  
• Counting under way of AV votes as turnout is placed between 35-50%
  

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg struggled to put a positive spin on disastrous set of results after the Liberal Democrat party fell victim to a bloodbath in elections in England, Scotland and Wales.

The worst election performance by the Liberal Democrats since the late 1980s is set to throw the coalition Government into crisis as a local party leader called for Mr Clegg to resign.

In response, Mr Clegg said his party had taken 'a real knock' but insisted it would learn lessons in defeat as the counting of AV referendum votes began.

 

After 183 councils out of a total of 279 had declared their results, the Lib Dems had lost 455 seats and been ousted from control in four town halls.

 

Staring defeat in the face: Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg leaves his home this morning where he conceded the Liberal Democrats had 'taken a real knock' in their worst electoral performance since the late 1980s

 

 

Contrast: Alex Salmond at the Scottish Parliamentary election count for Aberdeenshire East with his wife Moira on a night of huge success for the SNP leader

 

Labour had gained 542 extra councillors and control of 22 local authorities.

 

To rub salt into Mr Clegg's wounds, the Tories appeared to have been spared the voters' ire over the coalition's policies, gaining 52 seats and control in three councils.

In Scotland, the SNP won a historic outright majority in the 129-seat Parliament following a difficult night for Labour and a disastrous one for the Lib Dems.

 

 

More...

 

 

• Will Chris Huhne's angry ex-wife wreck his attempt to step in as Lib Dem leader?
  
• English local council election results
  
• Scottish National Party set to push for referendum on independence within five years after securing 'historic' victory
  

 

In Wales, Labour were hopeful of winning control of the Senedd, where they have been sharing power with Plaid.

And there was further bad news for the beleaguered Lib Dems - its AV dream appeared to be dashed with up to 70 per cent of voters opting for a 'No' vote in some parts of the country.

 

 

 

The Lib Dems lost swathes of seats in former council strongholds in the north of England to Labour, while haemorrhaging support to the Scottish National Party north of the border.

In Manchester, every one of Nick Clegg's candidates seeking re-election were voted out, while the party lost control of Hull council and even his home city of Sheffield turned against the Lib Dems.

 

Labour gained overall control of eight councils, including Sheffield, Hull, Bolton, Stoke and Telford.

 

Some 12 Lib Dem wards fell to Labour in Liverpool, 10 each in Manchester and Hull and nine in Sheffield - Mr Clegg's hometown.

The results led to calls for Mr Clegg to step down as party leader.

Gary Long, leader of the Lib Dem group on Nottingham City Council told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'I'm in favour of the coalition but I think he's run it very badly and in my view he should resign immediately.'

Mr Clegg said of the results: 'In politics, as in life, sometimes you get these big ups and downs and we have taken a real knock last night.

 

Crunch time: Workers count the ballot papers in Middlesbrough following the UK-wide elections

 

 

 

 

Crushing: Nick Clegg's Lib Dems suffered a night of record defeats, as a candidate shows his despair in the leader's home city of Sheffield where Labour gained control of the council

 

 

 

 

 

'We will need to learn the lessons from what we heard on the doorstep. But we need to get up, dust ourselves down and move on, because we have got a really big job to do.

'We need to provide optimism, hope and jobs for people up and down the country. That is the job we started and that is the job we are going to see through.'

'Done well': Prime Minister David Cameron cautiously applauded his party's performance in the elections

 

Prime Minister David Cameron said today that the Conservative Party had 'done well' in yesterday's elections despite taking 'difficult decisions in the national interest'.

Mr Cameron said the party's vote share had 'held up' and he hailed Tory councils and councillors for 'doing a good job up and down the country'.

 

Asked why he thought so many voters had turned against the coalition Government, Mr Cameron said: 'Of course the Government has had to take difficult long-term decisions in the national interest and that always makes local elections difficult.

 

'But what I would say about these results is actually the Conservative Party has done well and I have been thanking my campaigning team here.'

Speaking at the party headquarters in Westminster, he added: 'The Conservative vote share has held up and I think the Conservative councils and councillors have done a good job up and down the country providing quality services but keeping their costs and tax bills under control.

'I also think we fought a strong campaign explaining why we took difficult decisions to sort out the mess we inherited from Labour.'

Ed Miliband celebrated the success of his party in gaining more than 500 seats by mid-afternoon with a stinging assessment of the coaltion Government.

He said: 'People who once voted Liberal Democrat have yesterday withdrawn permission for Nick Clegg to back Tory policies on the NHS, on living standards and cuts that go too far, too fast.

'People do not want a relaunch of the coalition but real change. David Cameron and Nick Clegg must listen to the people.'

 

HOW CAN CLEGG BE CHALLENGED BY LEADERSHIP HOPEFULS?

 

Under the Lib Dem constitution, a leadership election could be sparked by:

 

• A vote of no confidence being passed by a majority of the party's MPs - at present that would require 29 MPs to oppose the leader or;
  

 

• 75 local party branches (including, perhaps significantly in the light of the tuition fees controversy, youth and/or student organisations) passing a motion calling for a contest.
  

By entering the coalition and becoming Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Clegg is protected from the opportunity that the party otherwise has to hold him to account each year.

The constitution says that the ruling executive must decide on each anniversary of a general election whether there should be a leadership election - with a two-thirds majority required to postpone it for a further period.

It adds that the provision 'shall not apply if the Leader is a member of the Government'.

Any potential challenger would require the formal backing of at least 10 per cent of fellow Lib Dem MPs - at present that would mean six others - and of 200 party members across at least 20 local parties, again including youth and student groups.

 

 

 

But he saw his leader in the Scottish Parliament, Iain Gray, scrape back in by a wafer-thin majority of 151 as the SNP secured the bulk of the benefit of protest votes against the Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition Government.

 

Labour's best results came in the Welsh Assembly, where it took Llanelli from Plaid Cymru and Blaenau Gwent from an Independent and increased its share of the vote by 10.5 per cent in the first 20 constituencies to declare.

Yesterday's elections sparked a bitter war of words between the coalition partners, with former Lib Dem leader Lord Ashdown accusing Prime Minister David Cameron of a 'breach of faith' by allowing the largely Conservative-funded No campaign to turn their fire on Mr Clegg in the referendum on electoral reform, where a result is due later today.

'You cannot fund a deeply vicious campaign to destroy the personality of your partner, who has been unmoved in his brave support of the coalition, without there being consequences,' Lord Ashdown told The Times in an interview before any votes were counted.

'When it comes to the bonhomie of the Downing Street rose garden, it's never again glad confident morn.'

There were no calls from prominent Lib Dems for their leader to go or to quit the coalition, but a number of senior figures pressed for the party to take a more independent stance within the Government.

Deputy leader Simon Hughes said Lib Dem 'trust' in the Tories had been knocked by their conduct of the referendum campaign and indicated the party would demand concessions on key issues like NHS reform where Conservative ministers have strayed beyond the terms of last year's coalition agreement.

 

 

First time: Labour also triumphed in Wales, with candidate for Cardiff South and Penarth Vaughan Gething being elected to the Welsh Assembly

 

 

'From now on, we are very clear that we will keep to what the coalition has agreed in the Coalition Agreement,' said Mr Hughes. 'Other stuff will not be allowed in as policy unless our party has agreed to it.'

CHANGES IN COUNCIL CONTROL

 

 

• Sheffield - Labour gain from no overall control (NOC)
  
• Kingston-upon-Hull - Labour gain from Liberal Democrat
  
• Chorley - Conservative lose to NOC
  
• Poole - Conservative lose to NOC
  
• Stockport - Liberal Democrat lose to NOC
  
• Gloucester - Conservative gain from NOC
  
• Tewkesbury - Conservative gain from NOC
  
• West Somerset - Conservative gain from Independent/Other
  
• Bassetlaw - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Bolton - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Hyndburn - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Lincoln - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Oldham - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Stoke-on-Trent - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Telford & Wrekin - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Warrington - Labour gain from NOC
  
• Gravesham - Labour gain from Conservative
  
• North Warwickshire - Labour gain from Conservative
  
• Boston - Conservative gain from Boston Bypass Independents
  

 

 

A political earthquake in Scotland saw the SNP snatch at least 10 seats from Labour, increasing its share of the vote by more than 13 per cent in the first 25 constituencies to declare and putting Alex Salmond on course for an overall majority in his second term as First Minister.

Declaring himself 'delighted' with the results, Mr Salmond confirmed he will press ahead with a referendum on independence in the coming four-year term at Holyrood, saying: 'Just as the people have bestowed trust on us, we must trust the people as well.'

Mr Salmond pointed towards his party's 'positive campaigning' for ultimately determining successful results in the vote.

 

He said: 'Scotland has now outgrown the Labour party.

'A positive campaign will always trump a negative one, because at the end of the day, even when times are tough people want something to go and vote for, something to believe in.

 

'They aren't going to be motivated by Labour's ridiculous scaremongering against Scottish independence.'

On the question of a referendum on Scottish independence, he said the immediate priority for the SNP would be to put 'economic muscle' into the Scotland Bill.

 

'In due course, in due time, of course we'll offer the Scottish people their chance to decide their own country's constitutional future,' he said.

Mr Salmond, who won his own seat of Aberdeenshire East with a majority of 15,295, thanked his deputy for the 'wonderful results' in Glasgow.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384135/Lib-Dem-massacre-Party-loses-hundreds-council-seats-England.html#ixzz1LaXJ8MIw

[Prince Myshkin]

Labour gains in my district. Wahoo.

[mc_squared]

Day Britain stood up for democracy: Humiliation for Clegg as Cameron wins campaign to keep first-past-the-post

 

 

By James Chapman

 

Last updated at 10:37 PM on 6th May 2011

 

 

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• No to AV claim victory as they take more than 10m out of 19.1m votes
  
• Results latest: 5,863,519 voted yes for AV and 12,640,417 against
  
• Nick Clegg describes it as a 'bitter blow' and a 'clear result'
  
• Turnout higher than expected at 42 per cent
  

Britain has delivered a humiliating ‘No’ vote to Nick Clegg’s dreams of tearing up the traditional electoral system.

Voters rejected a change to the Alternative Vote by an emphatic 70 per cent to 30 per cent.

As the results flooded in last night, the ‘No’ votes swept past the 12million mark and it became clear that a mere handful of the 440 counts polled had returned a majority in favour of the switch to AV.

The two-to-one rout, coupled with the Liberal Democrats’ worst local election showing for 30 years, plunged the party into crisis and the Coalition into bitter infighting.

 

Rejected at the ballot box: Chris Huhne, left puts a brave face on defeat as the campaign groups father at the Excel centre in the Docklands, London, Labour's John Reid, right, was against change

 

On the day dubbed ‘Fallout Friday’ in Westminster:

 

• The Union between England and Scotland faced its greatest test for 265 years as Nationalists won a shock landslide and promised an independence referendum;
  
• David Cameron delighted Tories, who had been braced for the loss of 1,000 council seats, by scoring wins across England;
  
• Ed Miliband was facing tough questions about his leadership as Labour recorded an even worse result than Michael Foot in 1981.
  

In only the second national referendum in Britain’s history, a total of 18.6million votes were cast, giving a turnout of 42 per cent – much higher than expected.

 

More...

 

 

• Lib Dem massacre: Party loses hundreds of council seats across England... and Clegg faces further humiliation with AV 'No' result
  
• End of the UK? Scottish National Party set to push for referendum on independence within 5 years after securing 'historic' victory
  
• Will Chris Huhne's angry ex-wife wreck his attempt to step in as Lib Dem leader?
  
• Cameron delight as the Tory vote holds up in council elections after dire day for Lib Dems
  
• AV vote: Click our interactive map to see how your part of the country voted
  

 

19.1MILLION VOTE IN REFERENDUM

 

An estimated 19.1million people voted in the AV referendum - higher than commentators had anticipated.

Amid electoral reform apathy, in London 35.4 per cent went to the polls, even though no other elections were taking place.

 

Turnout was as high as 50.7 per cent in Scotland where Scottish Parliamentary elections were being held at the same time.

Turnout by region

 

• London - 35.4% of 1.86 million registered voters
  
• South East - 44.3% of 2.79 million registered voters
  
• South West - 44.6% of 1.80 million registered voters
  
• Eastern - 43.1% of 1.84 million registered voters
  
• West Midlands - 39.8% of 1.63 million registered voters
  
• East Midlands - 42.8% of 1.43 million registered voters
  
• Yorkshire and the Humber - 39.9% of 1.53 million registered voters
  
• North West - 39.1% of 2.05 million registered voters
  
• North East - 38.7% of 0.76 million registered voters
  
• Scotland - 50.7% of 1.98 million registered voters
  
• Wales - 41.7% of 0.95 million registered voters
  

 

 

The Prime Minister, who agreed to Mr Clegg’s demands for a referendum on AV as the price of sharing power last May, was being hailed by Right-wing Conservatives for his decisive intervention in support of the ‘No’ campaign.

But Lib Dems accused him of reneging on a private pledge to Mr Clegg to take a back seat in the debate on AV.

Even former Labour Business Secretary Lord Mandelson, who made a failed attempt to rescue the ‘Yes’ campaign, conceded Mr Cameron had exercised ‘bold leadership’.

Following a year of controversial decisions in government, Tory MPs were amazed at how the party’s vote held up in council polls. Its share looked set to end up close to or even ahead of Labour’s, at between 35 and 38 per cent.

Senior Conservatives insisted Mr Cameron must not offer the crushed Lib Dems policy concessions as compensation for their double defeat.

Indeed, some even suggested the Prime Minister should ‘cut and run’ and call a snap General Election before legislation fixing the date for May 2015 clears Parliament – advice he seems certain to reject on the grounds that he would be accused of extraordinary bad faith.

Instead he will spend the next few weeks trying to repair relations with the Lib Dems following their election meltdown.

Last night he insisted there should be ‘no celebrating and no congratulations’ over the AV referendum result.

‘The issue will be settled and we can get on with the vital work we’re doing as a Coalition, governing in the national interest. That’s what I’m absolutely committed to doing,’ he said.

‘This is not about trading one policy for another policy, it’s about doing the right thing for Britain. That’s what I believe, that’s what Nick Clegg believes and that’s what we’re doing for our country.’

For his part, Mr Clegg is being warned by Lib Dem colleagues that he must now stop ‘cosying up’ to Mr Cameron and the Conservatives.

 

He is being given a period of around 18 months to demonstrate that he can reposition the Lib Dems as ‘equidistant’ between the Tories and Labour, or face a leadership challenge.

Decisive: Commentators said the crushing defeat for AV campaigners in the UK's second ever national referendum could put electoral reform off the agenda for a generation

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384336/AV-referendum-results-The-AV-result-comes--No.html#ixzz1LcL6o8WV

[Petit Prince]

Labour gains in my district. Wahoo.

 

Same in my district although their campaign has been terrible.

 

Lib Dems sent a flyer claiming that Labour want to introduce fortnightly bin collections. Labour then responded with a flyer which basically said 'Lib Dems are lying, vote for us'. They didn't state one single reason why we should vote for them.

 

I guess most people voted Labour because they're disappointed with Lib Dems.

[Prince Myshkin]

You have to bare in mind Conservative's are ****s.

Which they are.

[Black Rose]

Labour gains in my district. Wahoo.

 

Just remember what this man did to the country:

 

The Tories took an extra 4 seats on the council, 3 from the Lib Dems and 1 from UKIP taking their total to 78%