alright? who really cares?

Daily Mail readers.

They were reporting that story on Osama's stash of porn here too, on the national news.

 

Honestly I think it's interesting from the perspective that it makes him an extraordinarily huge hypocrite. That's one of the things he condemned in the societies he hated, yet it was perfectly fine for him to make use of it? Mmmmph.

Well they say they have no idea if it's his. And with the other things they have said about him, like he used a woman as a human shield etc, I wouldn't believe it till there's actual evidence. It's easy to make silly claims, especially if you aren't even going to bother putting a name to the article.

Well they say they have no idea if it's his. And with the other things they have said about him, like he used a woman as a human shield etc, I wouldn't believe it till there's actual evidence. It's easy to make silly claims, especially if you aren't even going to bother putting a name to the article.

 

^this.

A more credible and interesting article to post on the affair:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13398281

Next you'll be telling me that Ian Huntley swore once. :shrug:

 

I have a feeling that wouldn't actually surprise anyone, therefore it wouldn't be newsworthy........................ :rolleyes:

 

They were reporting that story on Osama's stash of porn here too, on the national news.

 

Honestly I think it's interesting from the perspective that it makes him an extraordinarily huge hypocrite. That's one of the things he condemned in the societies he hated, yet it was perfectly fine for him to make use of it? Mmmmph.

 

Yes, that is indeed what makes it newsworthy. Yes, it's speculative, as are many news stories, but as a stash of porn was definitely found on the premises, it was perfectly reasonable to suggest it might have belonged to Bin Laden.

Many stories begin as speculation before they are actually proven, including lots of scandals.

Men watch porn, big news.

Justice, that's what I think we really need to look at. All the business about this or that is a distraction to me from the central issue - what is the right way to deal with those extremists who use terror tactics ?

As suspects, and for the sake of respecting the rule of law, they should be primarily arrested and then tried in court. Since it's an international matter, one should go with the international courts. We did this with Milosevic, Mugabe, Goring, Hess, Demjanjuk, and so forth. One can't make war on organized crime - it's not a state, it's an amorphous organization - it has no central location, and it's leadership simply gets replaced when one "takes out" the current leader.

I think if we did this and showed respect with how we conducted searches alongside Pakistani police forces, using credible evidence presented to a judge, obtaining warrants if the evidence is sufficient to justify arrests or collection of evidence, and then conducting careful searches with due respect for human rights and individual dignity - we would probably be solving the terrorism problem, by showing that we behave in a manner respectful of human rights. Combine that with reducing poverty and inequity, finding ways to offer meaningful work, education, and mutual respect for the citizens of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and the recruitment by Al Qaeda would drop, citizens there would see us as standing on their side as protectors of human rights.

It's a problem with states which were fragmented such as Afghanistan, but then the answer is working with locals to listen to their interests and respecting their rights, treating them as equals.

Bin Laden is dead, but solving the issues of reducing the threats of terror acts isn't - I think that is the more critical matter. Unfortunately the U.S. military brass is bent on hitting targets without much consideration for innocents killed, or the respectful way to conduct searches in private residences - they forget what so incensed Americans at the time of the revolution - the barging in unannounced by British troops under King George into people's homes, without protections of law and courts to safeguard one's sense of sanctuary - that had the colonists up in arms.

I really wonder about not being able to arrest Bin Laden and take him into custody - sounds like the seals could have done that, but why didn't they? Perhaps they really were threatened, but there are reports to the contrary.

This is an excerpt from a very recent interview with Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzon from DemocracyNow!: Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzón on Holding Torturers Accountable, Why He Opposes the Killing of Osama bin Laden, and His Threatened Ouster from the Bench

 

 

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: Good Morning. Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: And thank you to Tony Geist for translating.

Judge Garzón, let’s start with the latest news: the assassination of Osama bin Laden. You have condemned this. Why?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] Any person who leads a terrorist organization like al-Qaeda is obviously a target. Under the rule of law, justice should be sought by legal means. According to the information we have, he could well have been arrested and brought to trial for his crimes.

AMY GOODMAN: Yet he was assassinated. Talk about the example you believe this sets.

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] According to international law, the murder or the assassination of bin Laden was not the appropriate solution. Clearly, from the information we have, it’s an undefined situation, given the state of conflict between the United States and al-Qaeda.

I really wonder about not being able to arrest Bin Laden and take him into custody - sounds like the seals could have done that, but why didn't they? Perhaps they really were threatened, but there are reports to the contrary.

 

In other words, the only person that knows for sure is the one that pulled the trigger. It's highly probable the truth will never be revealed.

In other words, the only person that knows for sure is the one that pulled the trigger. It's highly probable the truth will never be revealed.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. I can't estimate the probability, but if there were an effective inquiry, who knows what might happen. Let's say some of the members of the Seals who were there and saw what happened were willing to testify in exchange for protection and prosecutorial immunity - the truth may then be revealed in court. Or if the recorded footage of Bin Laden's shooting is made available through a subpoena and is presented to the court where the case is being investigated, we might find out the truth.

Or maybe other witnesses may all testify independently, and after cross-examination, based on their eye-witness account, shed some light on the truth as to whether Bin Laden posed a real threat or not.

Or if someone had orders to kill and not to capture Bin Laden, that may be revealed.

Seems like Judge Garzon was privy to information indicating that Bin Laden could have been arrested and brought to trial, so I wonder...

Perhaps, but perhaps not. I can't estimate the probability, but if there were an effective inquiry, who knows what might happen. Let's say some of the members of the Seals who were there and saw what happened were willing to testify in exchange for protection and prosecutorial immunity - the truth may then be revealed in court. Or if the recorded footage of Bin Laden's shooting is made available through a subpoena and is presented to the court where the case is being investigated, we might find out the truth.

Or maybe other witnesses may all testify independently, and after cross-examination, based on their eye-witness account, shed some light on the truth as to whether Bin Laden posed a real threat or not.

Or if someone had orders to kill and not to capture Bin Laden, that may be revealed.

Seems like Judge Garzon was privy to information indicating that Bin Laden could have been arrested and brought to trial, so I wonder...

 

All sounds a bit "iffy" to me.................................

All sounds a bit "iffy" to me.................................

I saw the footage - he was harmlessly munching on popcorn like a rabbit, watching TV!

I saw the footage - he was harmlessly munching on popcorn like a rabbit, watching TV!

 

Do rabbits eat popcorn?:confused:

Men watch porn, big news.

 

Certainly not men (and a religion) which repeatedly and publicly denounced the West for their relaxed and obsessed attitude to sex. Not on this case though. So he died a complete coward trying to get his wife to protect him (some martyr death) and then he's found to be a complete porn addict. How much more of an embarassment can this man get?

Certainly not men (and a religion) which repeatedly and publicly denounced the West for their relaxed and obsessed attitude to sex. Not on this case though. So he died a complete coward trying to get his wife to protect him (some martyr death) and then he's found to be a complete porn addict. How much more of an embarassment can this man get?

 

I was tempted to point this out, but I thought it was pretty obvious that Bin Laden's apparent hypocrisy was at the centre of the potential scandal.:dozey:

As you said, he incessantly accused the West of being "morally corrupt", citing this as one of the reasons for waging war against it.

If it were proven Bin Laden had been watching porn, he would be exposed as one of the biggest hypocrites of all time.;)

If

 

Yup.

before you start talking abt Bin Laden's publicly denouncing the West for their relaxed and obsessed attitude to sex, do you even what made him like he was...

 

his fight with his own government started coz they let American troops into Saudi Arabia

and he hated that the america was trying to control their oil rich nations

No different from saying "if" it were proven that Bin Laden's human rights had been ignored etc., etc.:rolleyes:

Speculative news stories crop up all the time.

No different from saying "if" it were proven that Bin Laden's human rights had been ignored etc., etc.:rolleyes:

Speculative news stories crop up all the time.

 

Well what you are forgetting is that nobody is saying that Osama Bin Laden isn't the biggest hypocrite because of his other actions. Watching pornography would not be very high on his list of atrocities. His religion was often used as a veil for his atrocities, as well as perhaps influencing them but he broke plenty of Islam's key principles before that.

 

Do you honestly believe that his followers will believe the findings of pornography? They believe nothing that comes from the west anyway.

 

It is different from the human rights 'ifs' because if his human rights had been violated then that is something that we have to look into as it would people representing us who are at fault. On the other hand it is not illegal to view pornography, so it's kind of irrelevant in the great scheme of things, especially when considered amongst what else he has done. Your main misunderstanding is thinking that this is the piece of evidence that makes him into a hypocrite. It's merely another example, and it's far from proved yet.

I totally disagree. If it were proven, it would be totally damning revelation. Let's hope it is.:smug:

I totally disagree. If it were proven, it would be totally damning revelation. Let's hope it is.:smug:

 

Like I said, he would be a hypocrite, but everybody knows he is a hypocrite. Do you remember 9/11 for example?

 

But it would not be a damning revelation for his followers because they would not believe it. It would simply be something for the west to s****** (edit - sniggger) at and associate him with. As of yet I've not seen anything conclusive to prove he did it, and whilst I'm not saying not to look in to it, I'll wait until I see some actual evidence. All I've seen is an article without a name, which is what you get in the transfer rumours section of a tabloid during the transfer window.

 

I have a suspicion that a lot more journalists from more respectable areas would be jumping on this and following it if there was some hard evidence available right now. I'm not saying it couldn't come about in the future. Re-read my last post as well Mark, regarding why this is different to the human rights 'ifs'. I'm sure you did read it first time, but your simplistic response sometimes makes me wonder.

If you seriously think watching pornography is on the top of the list of things that make him a hypocrite, then ... I don't even know how to continue this, it's just a big :facepalm:

We all knew he was a hypocrite for proven reasons ... this story is just supposed to attract people through SCANDAL11!!!!111!!!!! and look, it worked.

According to this thread page he's already now a 'complete porn addict'. And people have already forgotten that he did not use his wife to protect him. These 'truths' stick though, and that is why they are printed. They plant those little ideas in your head and people forget about what is true and what isn't.