chuck kottke Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 @21% unemployment, one can expect a lot of unrest, even the Spanish Revolution! ;) Something has got to change - no nation can experience that kind of unemployment without a great deal of unrest, and hence there will be a day of reckoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlene_Ihnfsa Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 i wonder what will happen after the elections. some media said that the movement is planning to stay in upto mid june and also take more public squares in Madrid along the coming week. @ chuck, no surprise many of the people supporting the movement for a change are youngsters, since youth unemployement rate is around 45% in fact, many young people are moving to other countries in Europe. another thing to agree with is their will to improve the electoral system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I am wondering if they stay in Barcelona until next week. Its the champions leauge final, they normally use this to show the game for lots of people. This wont be the problem, its afterwards if Barcelona win the Police are keen to clear the streets after a while, and some people dont want to go and this normally turns into a huge fight with the police having to use rubber bullets to clear the people and send them home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I am wondering if they stay in Barcelona until next week. Its the champions leauge final, they normally use this to show the game for lots of people. This wont be the problem, its afterwards if Barcelona win the Police are keen to clear the streets after a while, and some people dont want to go and this normally turns into a huge fight with the police having to use rubber bullets to clear the people and send them home. Hm.. sounds like it could be an excuse this time to "clear the streets." The Battle for Seattle took the authorities by surprise; to replicate in some fashion the gist of what worked, as far as tactics, or maybe that is too aggressive? Rubber bullets sting, what's the best shielding? Perhaps non-violence can win the day; with the eyes of the world watching, to win the hearts and minds of the fence sitters and those unaware, better to go defensive? Said too much already perhaps! But one cannot ignore the circumstances that lead to massive unemployment - the fact that it has gotten so bad in Spain is indicative of some seriously flawed thinking (or lack of thinking) on the part of those in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 the unemployment situation is out of control. However before all of this, in so called good times, there was around 10 % people not working. Up to a point there is a culture I have observed with some people who don’t want / need to work, as they have support of their families. Also the welfare system " el paro " is quite good for a period of time dependent on how long you have worked for and earned, it is capped, but for a single man or for someone living at home with their parents when they have worked in the past its quite a lot of money. For others not so good, I know its difficult for some people on here. Going back to if and when the streets would be cleared, I am sure the police will be thinking about this now, and will most likely show the game if possible in another open space around town. If the game was won, and the protests were going on still, the trouble in Barcelona could spark of something very big. Its just one of many outcomes to this situation. Before, when it has come to a Major sporting success for Barcelona the Center the area where the protestors are in Barcelona can become quite dangerous and the police at times will have to use heavy tactics as there are lunatics who end up being a danger to public life by setting things to fire etc and smashing things, just being thugs themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I think I understand; somewhat the matter of mill hands with lots of time on their hands.. There is always a mix it seems when masses of people gather anywhere; how it unfolds is another matter. Are there good organizers with real progress in mind amongst the crowd? I hope things work out in the end for the best, whichever path that takes. Maybe the upcoming sporting event will help focus attention on the problems in Spain, get some things to change beforehand? Or perhaps if citizens do shut things down, will this force change to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 This is the inevitable endgame of all socialist regimes. Consumption outpaces production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlene_Ihnfsa Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 Today the Murcia protesters have gotten into the regional tv channel offices and read something while they filmed themselves, they accused that media of manipulation (the past days they tried to ban some medias in Madrid and Barcelona from covering the protests accusing them and not allowing them do the work of a journalist = to inform about an event, (even when they are protesting in the public squares and asking for their right of expression)). to be truth i never watched that channel but after the eartquake in the region few days ago and i have to say they've been the only channel that did covered the event and helped with fair information. :| those days back they got into some banks of other cities in the country to protests aswell. i could agree with some of their reasons to protests, but not 100% and not with most their way of protesting, right moment, and 'solutions' for instance, this sunday we had local elections in all the country, and even though the organization asked people to go vote whatever party they wanted to, truth is 11million people didn't vote, which as the rules of the electoral law we have it just benefit the big parties, and truth is the winner party got just less than 9million votes, imagine if the protesters have had a party and got all those 11million votes, it'll be really a change. so, so far seems they are prostesting and accusing more than offering or starting solutions. :\ anyways i hope they focus and start solutions and it bring some real change, but i doubt it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I am still yet to hear an Idea of a soultion for the problems we have in spain. Since last year when Zapatero made a speech in the el cortes.. he asked PP, CiU etc for a suggestion to help everyone, no one including the protestors have come out with a viable solution. I think we should forget it ... and move on now, be positive. We are still better of than most of the people in the world ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Osaka Sun Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 This is the inevitable endgame of all socialist regimes. Consumption outpaces production. The inevitable endgame of all "free-market"/libertarian economic regimes. 1% of the top wage earners hold over 30% of the total wealth, while the bottom 50% hold only 2%. Stop criticizing Spain when you have your own, equally disgusting problems. NO Republican in your country has ever had a balanced budget since Ike, who in today's terms your country would consider to be a communist. Honestly, every country with reasonable versions of the Nordic Model/welfare state are laughing at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If I have understood this correctly they are moving the possible party on Saturday to another part of Barcelona in order to aviod any trouble :) http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/sociedad/fiesta-del-barca-muda-arc-triomf-para-evitar-los-indignados-1018650 sorry guys its in spanish ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlene_Ihnfsa Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQZtrCnLVA0]YouTube - Desalojo de Plaza Catalunya en Barcelona[/ame] they have been forcefully removed from the place in Barcelona. excuse was to allow the cleaning service to do their work and due to the possible risks of fire. other protests have been planned for today along the country in support of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Ari, I went to Placa Catalunya last night, for around 5-10 minutes. I dont think the police had a option, and there is an element within the proest whom have hijacked this.. it people like okupias... and they just smell... and like trouble (not all, but a considerable number. The whole place just smelt last night, it needed cleaning... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/27/spanish-protesters-clash-with-police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlene_Ihnfsa Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 News related with Madrid: One of the movements-group behind it "Toma la plaza" (take the square) has totally disagreed with the main manifesto (written by "Democracia real ya" -which included ideas to improve the political system to make it more fair for the citizen- to directly talk about squatting, quitting the bosses in the enterprises and run it by the workers only. there's already a theory linking that movement with IU (United Left) -political party here- and french group Attack. Commercials ask for a solution since they can't run their business any longer in the areas, and they may end forced to shut their business and unemploy their workers soon, they also said there are other inside movements not so related with the main point and they've spotted this last week a lot of squatters slogans and so. On the other hand people are trying that the movements expands through Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Another very intresting day yesterday a post later coming up... but this will show you have the Spanish Goverment are trying to cover things up and hide the problem from the world.. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SUqcJkMcsI]YouTube - 15M London Spain TVE1 news[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlene_Ihnfsa Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 they said they may be protesting up to the 19th june then nothing until october. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Sucks when your socialist paradise runs out of money to give away. Time to raise taxes on the rich again? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66NcrAGpeZI&feature=related]YouTube - Plaza Catalunya 28/05/2011[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Three things for the protestors to know: 1. Dress like nuns and priests. It isn't illegal, and it will create great images of police beating religious people. 2. Bring balloons full of paint. When they break on the police helmets, they can't see anymore. 3. Bring ball bearings in buckets. Roll them under the cop's feet. 4. Wear foam core around your ankles and knees. The police are trained to hit you here, because it is most painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Good advice! But I think there could be a sudden shortage of frocks and habits. Although, with some sewing skills, these articles can be made.. Ah, paint balloons - sounds like paintball! :laugh3: Ball bearings in buckets --- marbles in buckets? Watching Animal House, are we;)? hm... often wondered if that would work though.. it worked as a movie stunt! Yes, foam core - perhaps that might help. Seattle battlers wore armor made from cut tires, although I had heard it did have some drawbacks.. Sheer numbers usually does the trick more than anything else it seems - one can't stop the Spanish Revolution, if the revolution is popular! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Also take a little PCP, it'll help you to have no fear! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I am sure they don´t want a fight. I was speaking to one of the elder protesters this morning. I told him the following and he agreed. 1 ) The protest had been hijacked by many far left wing groups. 2) Also Okupias have tried to take over the event, some of these people have never worked or never want to work. 3 ) They really did need to clean the square, but the fighting from the police there was no need for. 4 ) Hopefully last night went fine, he was thinking of de camping and everyone else for Saturday night due to the football, ( this happend ) 5 ) Was grateful for my input and as much as I have put on different forums.. and facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Three things for the protestors to know: 1. Dress like nuns and priests. It isn't illegal, and it will create great images of police beating religious people. 2. Bring balloons full of paint. When they break on the police helmets, they can't see anymore. 4. Wear foam core around your ankles and knees. The police are trained to hit you here, because it is most painful. 3 would make the people no better than the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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