Fascism on the Rise

[chuck kottke]

Chuck, all the working droles who make 8 dollars an hour and bust their butts every week without vacation can cut on a TV and see MTV's "Cribs" about billionaires' mansions. The incentive to overthrow the system is low, as long as prices for food and fuel remain low (he has some disposable income to buy drinks), and government abuses are sporadic and isolated. Nobody cares about the other guy as long as he perceives him as "other", and thinks similar abuses committed against himself are unlikely.

 

Just ignore the individuals. Sure, there are bad cops and bad politicians and bad judges and bad rich people. Just like there are bad dentists and bad shoe salesmen.

 

The problem isn't the advertisements. It's what we teach our children - that government can solve all our problems, from slavery to harsh working conditions, to white people treating black people rudely, to the Earth slowly getting warmer, to endangered species, to unsafe cars, to to to to

 

When you look for a single answer for every problem you face, there's a name for that: religion.

> Working droles or working trolls? :laugh3: Jay, I used to be a 10-hour a day, 6 days a week working elf, making those lovely rocking horses and water skis you kids like! But my employer wasn't a very good Santa, since we were expected to work in an unhealthy work environment for a pittance, with minimal benefits, and got snarled at no matter how hard we worked, or how good the workmanship was. Then the plant closed and they moved it somewhere they could exploit workers even more effectively! The problem is that after an exhausting day & an endless week, about all the energy you've got left to do is sit and relax, hoping something pleasing is on TV to distract you from a miserable life. A lobster pail where there's no need to grab someone and pull them back in - all lobsters in the pail are equally hobbled. I suppose if it got the point where no one could afford fuel of food, then what's the point of trying to make it work - might as well revolt! Perhaps that is the case, and perhaps we will see that happen. But consider also the protests in Madison - citizens are no longer asleep as they once were. Everyone has limits, and when those limits are breached, a torrent of humanity is unleashed upon those rigging the system.

I can't ignore the individuals, as there are many who in concert are corrupting the system. And advertisement works, money buys our elections. What we teach our children is how the system is supposed to work. The problem is that the system needs fixing; it no longer functions to the benefit of average Americans, and much to the disaffection of citizens in other parts of the globe. Our U.S. Government, having been hobbled by corporate interests who seat themselves at the heads of agencies and cabinet posts who hire retiring politicians for lobbying jobs & who have amassed more wealth than most nations, that government is no longer working primarily in our best interests, but instead for a minority of plutocrats. If we eliminate the government, then what's left is basically huge multinational corporations, and given their talent for deception, intimidation, and amassing power sans for what little is done to curb their appetite, I can only shudder at the though of a world stripped bare of any government protections for humanity. It is not government that is the problem, it is government that serves mainly those with the power and money to control it, and throws a crumb to those who make it all possible. Either we reform it, or form a new one, but it is in my mind the essential referee and promoter of humanity's well being. Can it solve all problems? Certainly it cannot, but it can serve to promote solutions that work, and properly fund things for the common good of all. It can provide a fair and honest justice system if we demand that it do so, and promote the general well being of our citizens. It does a pretty good job when it is designed properly and checked routinely, accountable to any and all, and when necessary reinvented.

Government is the body through which our collective ideals are upheld and through which our knowledge & actions are utilized to achieve common goals.

Certainly there are answers outside the realm of government, whether that be from individuals, charities, cooperatives, worker-owned companies, religious organizations, societies, or other forms of social engagement. However, for the protection of those things we all hold in common, honest government has an important role to play.

[chuck kottke]

^I'd have to agree with both of you for different reasons.

 

Check I agree that spending put into campaigns and advertising is wrong because you cannot really get any candidates who can win the presidency besides Republicans or Democrats even if you were to combine all efforts by all 3rd parties. The Tea Party is the closest thing we have though they're just an extension of the Republican party and I personally think it's just an excuse for a party for racists.

 

> That is true, that is so true. Third parties used to be the factor that moved the country in better directions when either major party was failing us. But the problem is deeper than that - behind it all is the pull of the money, those with the most having the most pull. It completely distorts our government, so that agencies once in charge of safeguarding us from unsafe medicines or exposure to toxic chemicals are either underfunded or prevented by agency heads in fulfilling their real mission. Agencies that we relied upon for preventing economic train wrecks were rendered ineffective by legislative changes supported by the very forces that caused the derailment. The moneyed interests use their cash to gum up the workings of government. In doing so, they reap greater profits, which they can then plow back into derailing the agencies responsible for proper regulation and oversight. It is a vicious cycle that must be stopped.

[RunForTheHills]

Great point, and this is where you'll see me start to get into more radical territory, so I don't expect you to agree with me on all this.

 

Right now we have a situation where governments have convinced the vast majority of people that they are some how "bound" by constitutions and laws. At least when we had monarchies, the Kings never made such a claim - everybody sort of understood the king was just acting in his own self-interest. In Democracy, we get this childish fairytale that governments are here to protect us and take care of us when we get old, and keep us from ruining the purity of nature and Bambi. Democracy really is pretty funny when you think about it.

 

So no, you can't get rid of an oppressive government via legislation or elections. And laws and constitutions don't matter (they never did). All that matters is the culture in a society. When the culture is very sympathetic to government, it will devolve into fascism. When it's more sympathetic to individuals, it will hold onto a degree of freedom (more or less).

 

And governments understand this point very well. They're not dummies. So the very first thing most governments try to monopolize is schooling. They want to teach their version of history and make the young children associate government with caring, kindhearted, protective female teachers. So later on, when the students grow up, they think of their fun childhood years and extrapolate that to mean government could improve other areas of their adult life.

 

You'll see some violence here in America, within your lifetime. The question is, what will come next? I'm honestly not sure. Maybe the 50 states will assert their authority, and we'll go back to greater freedom and decentralization. Maybe the military will "temporarily" take over the Federal government and hold onto power indefinitely. Who knows? Keep in mind this stuff isn't very sudden or dramatic. Heck, Lincoln was basically a dictator who slaughtered 600,000 Americans. FDR burned down wheat fields and slaughtered cattle in order to hold up the prices of bread and meat during the deflation of the 1930's. America has a history of retards in charge.

 

EDIT: The other point I wanted to add about public schools real fast is that they segregate the children by age. This is entirely unnatural for humans. Humans develop best as children when they're exposed to and interact with others of all different age groups. Funnily enough, the people who invented our way of schooling were the Germans (just before the Nazis took over a few decades later). You can see how quickly it caused those young people to grow up trusting authority.

Quoted for truth. We really need more people like you. :thumbsup:

[chuck kottke]

Great point, and this is where you'll see me start to get into more radical territory, so I don't expect you to agree with me on all this.

 

Right now we have a situation where governments have convinced the vast majority of people that they are some how "bound" by constitutions and laws. At least when we had monarchies, the Kings never made such a claim - everybody sort of understood the king was just acting in his own self-interest. In Democracy, we get this childish fairytale that governments are here to protect us and take care of us when we get old, and keep us from ruining the purity of nature and Bambi. Democracy really is pretty funny when you think about it.

> Laws are there as the social contract between us all, as the guidelines for justice, set forth by elected members of government. If they fail in being fair and just, it is because we have allowed government to become controlled by those who benefit from unjust laws. Our government was created by citizens acting in unison to form a more perfect union, and it is up to us to keep it working properly. The truth is, it is our collective will expressed through honest government action that has provided us with guarantees such as social security, public education for all, good roads and bridges, and the like. The fairytale I see is the one where somehow private interests will act as safety nets, when in reality they often fail and leave citizens falling onto hard ground during hard times. For as imperfect as our government is, it is better than having no government, and it is our responsibility to make it do the right things for all citizens..

So no, you can't get rid of an oppressive government via legislation or elections. And laws and constitutions don't matter (they never did). All that matters is the culture in a society. When the culture is very sympathetic to government, it will devolve into fascism. When it's more sympathetic to individuals, it will hold onto a degree of freedom (more or less).

> The oppressiveness of government in my mind arrives when we allow vast sums of money from a limited few to in essence buy the election results they want. So in essence, the government forces responsible for enforcing the laws are doing what the big money behind it all is telling them to do via laws enacted. Corporate control by an oligarchy of owners is setting the agenda, repressing people. When the culture is sympathetic to corporate power, that is when it may devolve into fascism - as Benito Mussolini put it, "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state & corporate power." It is up to us to wrest control of our governments back from corporate control, and into the hands of we citizens.

And governments understand this point very well. They're not dummies. So the very first thing most governments try to monopolize is schooling. They want to teach their version of history and make the young children associate government with caring, kindhearted, protective female teachers. So later on, when the students grow up, they think of their fun childhood years and extrapolate that to mean government could improve other areas of their adult life.

> :laugh3: that's quite a stretch! But I've heard this argument before - sounds like the Libertarian take on things. It was Jefferson who understood the value of educating the masses to improve our democracy's chances of survival, because he felt that to not do so would leave people vulnerable to the persuasion of Kings or religions. Better to have those engaged in the pursuit of truth ferret out what really is our history, to that I would defer to Noam Chomsky, who choose to seek truth against the odds, and tell it like it was. I have to agree, the history I was taught was devoid of the whole truth, seeing things from the perspective of war and individuals in control, but lacking a fuller explanation of the forces moving people to act, and what the people's struggles were all about. But that again is a matter of demanding better of our academic professions, more checks and balances, better historical questioning and probing for the truth. I think the public school system is not a marketing thing to promote government, but is the provision by society to ensure we live in an intelligent, productive, and free country.

You'll see some violence here in America, within your lifetime. The question is, what will come next? I'm honestly not sure. Maybe the 50 states will assert their authority, and we'll go back to greater freedom and decentralization. Maybe the military will "temporarily" take over the Federal government and hold onto power indefinitely. Who knows? Keep in mind this stuff isn't very sudden or dramatic. Heck, Lincoln was basically a dictator who slaughtered 600,000 Americans. FDR burned down wheat fields and slaughtered cattle in order to hold up the prices of bread and meat during the deflation of the 1930's. America has a history of retards in charge.

> Violence, perhaps, against the corporate machine and it's controllers. Non-violence has some advantages though - for when the eyes of the world are upon nonviolent struggles against corrupt interests, it can unify citizens like nothing else to assert our rights to a just system of governance. I am hoping the outcome will be greater checks and balances on power, a breaking up of the virtual media monopolies, and a separation of monetary influence from elections. As is usually the case, movements start at the local level and grow. Amending the Constitution begins at the state level, and grows from there, but local measures often come before that. If we did see the military take over, I would bet the corporate heads would be behind it all - that's where the problem is. And Lincoln was by no means perfect, but calling him a dictator is simply incorrect. He was the commander in chief, and while Habeas Corpus was suspended during the war, it was restored afterwords. I disagree with your assertion that slavery would have simply ended because it was unpopular or because it was too costly to return runaway servants. It was less than an ideal victory because following Lincoln, Johnson came into office, and allowed a return to segregation and discrimination in the South. As for FDR's actions, I am unaware that he demanded the burning of wheat fields to support prices; but no leadership has ever had entirely logical policies; the policies of Reagan and his privatization & breaking of unions was one that started the decline of wages and benefits in the U.S.

EDIT: The other point I wanted to add about public schools real fast is that they segregate the children by age. This is entirely unnatural for humans. Humans develop best as children when they're exposed to and interact with others of all different age groups. Funnily enough, the people who invented our way of schooling were the Germans (just before the Nazis took over a few decades later). You can see how quickly it caused those young people to grow up trusting authority.

I think the term is separate by age. Montessori methods may work better, I agree - children advancing in areas at a rate governed by their abilities and advances, not arbitrarily being moved ahead grade by grade. Perhaps this simply was an attempt to separate children into groups of similar abilities, however a poor fit it was. Well, the Germans had & have excellent schools and scholars let us not forget! This was done under the Weimar Republic, a democracy once again. The reasons for the NAZIS taking over were several, not because of the trust people put in authority, but because of the loss of trust people had for their government which had failed them economically (as well as had the U.S. government failed in preventing bad investments in German business to occur in the stock markets, and demand an impossible burden of war reparations for WWI.) Then, when all else failed, German citizens in that day and age were searching for an answer, a messiah if you will. And they discovered this great orator, who had the charisma and cunning to mislead people into supporting Fascism under a dictator. The marketing was superb, the party became a religion, borrowing iconography from a panoply of religious, ancient cultural, and mythological symbols. And it had the blessing of Rome as well - the official catholic church supported it (though I wish to add that this was partly out of fear of communist takeover). What I think you're forgetting is that in desperate times when all seems to have failed, people can be vulnerable to strong men offering solutions. It is not the trust in authority which leads us into war, it is the trust in those presenting the news, blind faith in a corporate for-profit media under the control of a limited few, and a government serving corporate interests and their agendas over the will of the people.

 

[Saffire]

Chuck, one of these days I'm going to teach you to love profit. And beets. Both are good for you.

[chuck kottke]

Chuck, one of these days I'm going to teach you to love profit. And beets. Both are good for you.

Profits are good, I like profits!:) But when things get too daffy :greedy:, a lot of other things slide off the deep end. It can be fun, I agree - I just think balance is what's missing - like any diet, proportion & balance are key. That and each of us has a unique role to play in the universe; we derive strength through diversity.

I actually like beets on occasion - good in cold soups, once in a while pickled. Just had too many of them as a kid.:laugh3: I suppose it's part of Southern cuisine? I'm not so familiar with that..

[Saffire]

Yes, we eat beets, cornbread, black eyed peas, okra (both fried and boiled), cooked cabbage, chicken salad, potato salad, cheese grits, corn on the cob, macaroni and cheese, greens with videlia onion on them...

 

And I think of capitalism like a spinning top, which can continue to spin indefinitely until force is introduced... then it starts to get wobbly and eventually falls over.

[the_gloaming09]

Bears.

 

Beets.

 

 

Battlestar Galactica.

[chuck kottke]

Yes, we eat beets, cornbread, black eyed peas, okra (both fried and boiled), cooked cabbage, chicken salad, potato salad, cheese grits, corn on the cob, macaroni and cheese, greens with videlia onion on them...

 

And I think of capitalism like a spinning top, which can continue to spin indefinitely until force is introduced... then it starts to get wobbly and eventually falls over.

> Fried Okra?! Hm, *wonders what that's like:thinking::inquisitive:*.. ok. I do like the black eyed peas, actually I am familiar with quite a number of those foods. And I've eaten grits - I never quite knew why they're such a staple down south though?..

Hey, where's the collards?!:laugh3: Greens!

> Wobbly, that's the world we live in! ;)