http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/30/germany-to-shut-nuclear-reactors

 

Being me, I'm certainly positively excited about this.

 

 

 

Do you think Germany will need to proceed to import atomic energy from abroad (it does at the moment), energy-prices wil rise enormously, coal-power-stations will have to be restarted (aka co2-emissions rise), Germany's industry and jobs will run down massively, atomic plants are the safest, cheapest and cleanest way of producing energy, there will be black-outs in peak hours and all of the winter seasons? :p

 

 

I know all these arguments. They make my brain feel drowsy. I hope the decision to step out of nuclear energy will lead to a boost of green engineering, economic and ecological sustainability, more jobs and nothing less than a better world.

 

Call me a retarded hippie, I'll love it. :wacky:

finally someone mentioning this on here(ok it is not old news haha)

 

and I am with you even if there are all these negative arguments and people are saying it was kind of an emotional decision....

 

I am liking this though just because this is not just about money, but about the environment and our world. (my english kinda sucks)....and that it is something people have been protesting against for such a long time now......well, I hope everything works out well and we can seriously do this.....it is a step into the right direction imo

 

and I think we ar enot the only ones who think that way.....I know enough people who agree

finally someone mentioning this on here(ok it is not old news haha)

 

and I am with you even if there are all these negative arguments and people are saying it was kind of an emotional decision....

 

I am liking this though just because this is not just about money, but about the environment and our world. (my english kinda sucks)....and that it is something people have been protesting against for such a long time now......well, I hope everything works out well and we can seriously do this.....it is a step into the right direction imo

 

and I think we ar enot the only ones who think that way.....I know enough people who agree

 

Yes, that's what I find so intriguing about it too. I love the idea of not giving in on the same old killer arguments of the world's irresponsible old-school merchants any longer.

 

I feel my english kinda sucks all the verfluchte time. :disappointed:

Yes, that's what I find so intriguing about it too. I love the idea of not giving in on the same old killer arguments of the world's merchants any longer.

 

I fell my english kinda sucks all the verfluchte time. :disappointed:

 

...though I really wonder to how many arguments this is going to lead....there is a village in my area and they are planning to build a wind power station in the forest near the village....the village is not very big and most of the inhabitants have been kinda "protesting" against this already...they are saying it will make our beautiful landscape look horrible and destroy it....and they shall destroy other landscapes that are destroyed already (with wind parks.....)....our area is so beautfiul because of our "untouched" nature and blah.....and they are saying that they are green though and they want wind parks, but not here....oh my....I am sure there are more examples like that

and another thing I find interesting is that so many people (and esp. the opposition of course) have always been saying the nuclear reactors shall be shut and now they are seriously doing it and they are still criticising them as hell.....well, ok they have to

Oh ya, i forgot that the country might be plastered with thousands of windmills and overhead power cables. I would actually endorse that as an interim solution, and be it for some decades, also next to my village. I understand resentments though.

 

I suppose that this bold/ maybe crazy decision will activate an ever speeding up dynamic towards sustainable engineering-art. Where is that mind, that will come up with a simple and utmost sensible way of producing energy? Chuck Kottke, would you have any ideas? :D

and another thing I find interesting is that so many people (and esp. the opposition of course) have always been saying the nuclear reactors shall be shut and now they are seriously doing it and they are still criticising them as hell.....well, ok they have to

 

I've been considering to install myself in front of the Reichstag with a banner and plea as to fucking stop this kindergarten attitude of bashing EVERYTHING, just because...

I'm just afraid I couldn't handle the media thing. Imagine me getting reduced to a dotty mascot. :/

 

Wanna join in, Julia? Because, if there were a couple of others with me, I'd do it!

It is a pretty big challenge, but I think if we ever want to change something and if other big nations are not taking the responsibility I am happy that we are the first ones doing this and if it works out well others might do the same (I hope so!)......idk, but this is the first time I am really interested in what our politicians are doing and what is going on, because it is something many people in this country wanted for such a long time and it is a risk to make that big change now and yeah like I said before it isn't a decision that is just about money.

I've been considering to install myself in front of the Reichstag with a banner and plea as to fucking stop this kindergarten attitude of bashing EVERYTHING, just because...

I'm just afraid I couldn't handle the media thing. Imagine me getting reduced to a dotty mascot. :/

 

Wanna join in, Julia? Because, if there were a couple of others with me, I'd do it!

 

haha I think I'd do that even if it was just for the fun of it....that behaviour is ridiculous indeed....the main problem might be that those main parties have changed their opinion now and they actually agree with the opposition's basic opinion now and since it is the opposition they just have to be against it haha

^^Yes! It could be and hopefully is super exciting and good. I'll go to sleep now, Jules. See you later!

 

:)

haha I think I'd do that even if it was just for the fun of it....that behaviour is ridiculous indeed....the main problem might be that those main parties have changed their opinion now and they actually agree with the opposition's basic opinion now and since it is the opposition they just have to be against it haha

 

I'm so tired of that whacky nonsense. So let's do it! I'm serious!!

 

But as I said, I need to sleep now, have a good night. :hug:

^^Yes! It could and hopefully is super exciting and good. I'll go to sleep now, Jules. See you later!

 

:)

 

See ya Valerie and goodnight:wacko:

It's a major overreaction.:dozey:

I don't really have much of a say on the topic being i don't know too much about it. People such as in the media here talk about how good it is, however you really can't trust what they say...haha

 

 

I personally thing that the best method of energy is solar. To be honest when I get my own home I'd like to have my electricity run on solar powered panels. Yes they may be expensive at first, but I think in the end it'd be worth it, not only saving money in the long run but helping out the environment.

This is idiocy.

 

As far as I know, Germany isn't even on a fault line.

 

And yes, this is about money - it's about the millions of Euros extra each poor/working family will be paying due to higher energy prices. It's about the longer hours German parents will have to work, and less time they'll get to spend with their kids.

 

What will all those nuclear engineers do for a living now?

 

Don't people think of any of this??

Oh ya, i forgot that the country might be plastered with thousands of windmills and overhead power cables. I would actually endorse that as an interim solution, and be it for some decades, also next to my village. I understand resentments though.

 

I suppose that this bold/ maybe crazy decision will activate an ever speeding up dynamic towards sustainable engineering-art. Where is that mind, that will come up with a simple and utmost sensible way of producing energy? Chuck Kottke, would you have any ideas? :D

> Thanks for the words of praise, but the answer is... blowing in the wind!:laugh3: Gautama, it's really simple like wrestling an alligator. I've pondered coming up with super-efficient solar cells made from common crustal elements, super-efficient lights, all the things everyone else is striving to do. And then I realized, we just use it up as fast as we make it!:laugh3: Sure, there's fusion reactors, and they're getting there, and there's geothermal - definitely that's another area to grow.

But the simple solution is energy efficiency. Which doesn't mean freezing in winter or going without lighting (the detractor arguments we hear all the time here!), but there is this enormous potential for efficiency improvements in all things using electricity. Street lights using high-efficiency lamps aimed correctly would help. More & better use of daylight in buildings. Really making homes and businesses super-insulated and tight, then using air exchangers to maintain fresh air in the building. Since heating and cooling equipment is a big part of the electric load, there's a lot to save in that area. Refrigerators, freezers, business coolers - these can be vastly improved as well.

The thing that is required is for people to make adjustments. One might need to make a bigger space in the kitchen for a super-insulated refrigerator, or go to the bottom of the fridge to use the freezer. Adding skylights, sun-tubes, and clerestory windows for better lighting during the day, and then electric lights that automatically dim when the sun comes in. Use of yard lighting that is on a switch or controllable timer rather than having it automatically turn on all night long. It's really not that hard to do, but takes a little work and good planning. Making it a market incentive I think is good, as long as the working class & those on fixed incomes have access to the means to bring their energy efficiency up.

I have to chuckle a bit, since we were almost there in the 70's, making this transition. But then oil prices dropped, the economy rebounded, coal was plentiful and stack emissions for particulates and sulfur & nitrous oxides began to get better, so then it was back to the old saw of extract, grow, and consume. More people, more streets and lights, more factories, more of everything - we've really ramped up consumption, and so now it's a matter of intelligent choices in efficiency. Then there's less pressure to put up so many turbines - maybe some views can be saved. What about siting more of the turbines in the ocean? Work on getting more geothermal in Germany perhaps (?) - there must be some spots where the mantle is closer to the surface, I would imagine.

But really, we simply have enough without nuclear - it's a matter of moving in the right direction - it's a bit of a challenge, since it requires home and office construction & remodeling, replacing old appliances, etc. - a little inconvenience but better for the environment and safety of citizens.

I could understand if it was another country on a fault line or sth, but yeah... Germany isn't. Seems like an overreaction, since the only reason Fukushima went HERPADERP was the unprecedented strength of the earthquake damaging it.

Seems like an overreaction

 

Hey! That was my (fault) line!:rolleyes:

since the only reason Fukushima went HERPADERP was the unprecedented strength of the earthquake damaging it.

 

It wasn't actually the earthquake itself, but the tsunami, which damaged it because the protective walls hadn't been built high enough.;)

^I think she's not a retard :wink2:

I could understand if it was another country on a fault line or sth, but yeah... Germany isn't. Seems like an overreaction, since the only reason Fukushima went HERPADERP was the unprecedented strength of the earthquake damaging it.

 

You cannot know, but the date of 2022 was already a done deal targeted at by the previous leading parties and only thrown over last winter by our current gov. So that Merkel changed her mind after Fukushima was a u-turn for her, but the country as such was there before.

 

We always had a strong anti-nuclear movement, not least because of the impact of Chernobyl. That were strangeand irritating times back then, even in Germany (the nuclear cloud reached out to the west as far as France).

 

I also don't get how a fault line alone is a reason to not invest in nuke power any longer. I mean, what's your problem with that? What's so ridiculous or wrong about trying to find other means of producing electricity?

I don't really have much of a say on the topic being i don't know too much about it. People such as in the media here talk about how good it is, however you really can't trust what they say...haha

 

 

I personally thing that the best method of energy is solar. To be honest when I get my own home I'd like to have my electricity run on solar powered panels. Yes they may be expensive at first, but I think in the end it'd be worth it, not only saving money in the long run but helping out the environment.

 

I think too, that solar power will play the biggest role in the long run. Combined with refined insulating of buildings etc, pp.

 

This is idiocy.

 

As far as I know, Germany isn't even on a fault line.

 

And yes, this is about money - it's about the millions of Euros extra each poor/working family will be paying due to higher energy prices. It's about the longer hours German parents will have to work, and less time they'll get to spend with their kids.

 

What will all those nuclear engineers do for a living now?

 

Don't people think of any of this??

 

Why is it just and only idiocy to try and find alternatives to nuclear power, when we haven't resolved the storage problem of old fuel rods? I personally feel unwell to bequest future generations with that problem. It's not a responsible approach to leave that out of the discussion either, imo.

 

I know you see the world from the mercantile perspective, which is fair enough, since it's still such a strong motivation and regulating system, but I would find your post more interesting if you would admid (if you agree, that is), that we are facing a time of dire need of structural adjustments. Ecologically for example, and also in trade or governing itself.

 

The demand of a big part of german people for nuclear power has ceased to exist. That's how things go, non?

You wouldn't want the government to ignore peoples' pledges just to subsidise people and industries who've chosen a career that didn't have a long prognosis. Not you, Saffire, or did I get something wrong? If so I'm sorry, I'm hardly here to say I know things better or best. But my instincts tell me, that nuclear power isn't the best way of producing energy. Not in the hand of us erratic breed anyway.

 

Nobody ever laments over all the jobs lost because of our firms' outsourcing the production of goods to China. It must be the same in the US. Far more jobs have been lost this way, haven't they? And they are really lost. Here we replace one system which isn't trusted any longer by another system. There will be new jobs.

 

> Thanks for the words of praise, but the answer is... blowing in the wind!:laugh3: Gautama, it's really simple like wrestling an alligator. I've pondered coming up with super-efficient solar cells made from common crustal elements, super-efficient lights, all the things everyone else is striving to do. And then I realized, we just use it up as fast as we make it!:laugh3: Sure, there's fusion reactors, and they're getting there, and there's geothermal - definitely that's another area to grow.

But the simple solution is energy efficiency. Which doesn't mean freezing in winter or going without lighting (the detractor arguments we hear all the time here!), but there is this enormous potential for efficiency improvements in all things using electricity. Street lights using high-efficiency lamps aimed correctly would help. More & better use of daylight in buildings. Really making homes and businesses super-insulated and tight, then using air exchangers to maintain fresh air in the building. Since heating and cooling equipment is a big part of the electric load, there's a lot to save in that area. Refrigerators, freezers, business coolers - these can be vastly improved as well.

The thing that is required is for people to make adjustments. One might need to make a bigger space in the kitchen for a super-insulated refrigerator, or go to the bottom of the fridge to use the freezer. Adding skylights, sun-tubes, and clerestory windows for better lighting during the day, and then electric lights that automatically dim when the sun comes in. Use of yard lighting that is on a switch or controllable timer rather than having it automatically turn on all night long. It's really not that hard to do, but takes a little work and good planning. Making it a market incentive I think is good, as long as the working class & those on fixed incomes have access to the means to bring their energy efficiency up.

I have to chuckle a bit, since we were almost there in the 70's, making this transition. But then oil prices dropped, the economy rebounded, coal was plentiful and stack emissions for particulates and sulfur & nitrous oxides began to get better, so then it was back to the old saw of extract, grow, and consume. More people, more streets and lights, more factories, more of everything - we've really ramped up consumption, and so now it's a matter of intelligent choices in efficiency. Then there's less pressure to put up so many turbines - maybe some views can be saved. What about siting more of the turbines in the ocean? Work on getting more geothermal in Germany perhaps (?) - there must be some spots where the mantle is closer to the surface, I would imagine.

But really, we simply have enough without nuclear - it's a matter of moving in the right direction - it's a bit of a challenge, since it requires home and office construction & remodeling, replacing old appliances, etc. - a little inconvenience but better for the environment and safety of citizens.

 

I didn't exactly think, that you might be that genius mind Chuck Sir, hahah. :P But I figured that you are well informed on what's hot in the current state of green engineering. Thanks for presenting all the means we could use as of today here. Btw, in Germany almost all people who renovate their houses now wrap them up in a thick layer of damming material, there are solar panels on not only private but many official buildings, such as schools, etc. What's happening in the US in that regard?

You cannot know, but the date of 2022 was already a done deal targeted at by the previous leading parties and only thrown over last winter by our current gov. So that Merkel changed her mind after Fukushima was a u-turn for her, but the country as such was there before.

 

We always had a strong anti-nuclear movement, not least because of the impact of Chernobyl. That were strangeand irritating times back then, even in Germany (the nuclear cloud reached out to the west as far as France).

 

I also don't get how a fault line alone is a reason to not invest in nuke power any longer. I mean, what's your problem with that? What's so ridiculous or wrong about trying to find other means of producing electricity?

 

 

I am hoping they can keep their "promises" (if you can call this a promise) and they will do the best they can without giving up after some years saying that it won't work or whatever....some people might say that they have made that decision just because they want to be "re-elected" since they have lost voters in those federal states which have had elections recently which is a sign for them....it will be a very huge disappointment since this topic has been so present for many years

 

I am hoping we can be a good example for other nations...it was a brave decision

It wasn't actually the earthquake itself, but the tsunami, which damaged it because the protective walls hadn't been built high enough.;)

Earthquakes trigger tsunamis. ;)

 

Oh seriously you know what I meant.

 

You cannot know, but the date of 2022 was already a done deal targeted at by the previous leading parties and only thrown over last winter by our current gov. So that Merkel changed her mind after Fukushima was a u-turn for her, but the country as such was there before.

 

We always had a strong anti-nuclear movement, not least because of the impact of Chernobyl. That were strangeand irritating times back then, even in Germany (the nuclear cloud reached out to the west as far as France).

 

I also don't get how a fault line alone is a reason to not invest in nuke power any longer. I mean, what's your problem with that? What's so ridiculous or wrong about trying to find other means of producing electricity?

 

Ah, I see. So it's not purely because of that event.

 

I actually have qualms about nuclear energy, I think long-term we really need to find a dependable source of renewable energy that doesn't damage the snot out of the environment. I don't like the way some countries are starting to rely on nuclear plants, they're a good stepping stone I suppose... egh. Still not the best option there is :shrug:

I am hoping they can keep their "promises" (if you can call this a promise) and they will do the best they can without giving up after some years saying that it won't work or whatever....some people might say that they have made that decision just because they want to be "re-elected" since they have lost voters in those federal states which have had elections recently which is a sign for them....it will be a very huge disappointment since this topic has been so present for many years

 

I am hoping we can be a good example for other nations...it was a brave decision

 

Even if they only did it for votes, I don't really care ( this being a very shortened version of what I'm actually thinking about how the CDU and the superbly headless FDP have been acting the last couple of months), because I do endorse the direction of it so much. We'll have to see how much a dynamic process this will become. To me it seems like a very influential and powerful step towards the dawning of the age of aquarius. Metaphorically speaking.

 

Earthquakes trigger tsunamis. ;)

 

Oh seriously you know what I meant.

 

 

 

Ah, I see. So it's not purely because of that event.

 

I actually have qualms about nuclear energy, I think long-term we really need to find a dependable source of renewable energy that doesn't damage the snot out of the environment. I don't like the way some countries are starting to rely on nuclear plants, they're a good stepping stone I suppose... egh. Still not the best option there is :shrug:

 

Yep, it's not as hysterical as it seems from the outside.

 

Imagine we can make it happen ( without loosing Porsche and ...well I don't know what you Aussies connect to randy german engineering), it would be a great booster detonation for the rest of the world. Somebody needs to start it!!!!

Against all the alleged odds.