A Godless Universe

[Wyrd]

I think he's saying that religion (and it's effects on society) would be extremely different if there was no god

I ment what Italian Plastic was saying. The reason why I say religion had a great impact in literacy was because noble educated men had to learn to read because of the bible. Almost everyone was a die-hard religious person so thats where I'm saying knowledge would be impacted

I know that’s what he said.

But I don't think you two understand what I was pin-pointing. I am not talking about religion being here or not and how without religion there would not be so many literate people. Let's forget about the impact of religion, because it's the same in what I mean to say.

 

What I am saying is that it is weird to say that religion would be absent or significantly different if there was no God. Because by saying this you are implying already that there is an existing God. It's like the old argument; the Bible holds the truth because it is the word of God and we know it's the word of God because that is written in the Bible. It's circular reasoning. Now saying that religion must be different if there would be no God, is not a circular reasoning, but it's a petitio principii nonetheless, a logical fallacy. Your proposition already holds implicitly the premise that God exists.

 

Proposition: Religion would be absent or different if there is no God

Implied Premise 1: God exists

 

You say that religion is the way it is because of God. But how do you know? Let’s make the same statement with the premise that God does not exist. What if there’s no God and yet there’s religion because people believe in God? Can you also understand that atheists do not hold the premise that God exists yet they know there’s religion in this world. So how does the proposition hold for them? In both ways of reasoning there can be religion, whether there is a God or not, simply because people believe there is God. Do you see my problem with the way you reason?

 

And with this I still stand by my last post; Already assuming the existence of God, how do you know religion would be different if there would not be a God? Do you think no one would simply believe in God if he’s not existing?

And what about polytheism? In the beginning of writing people believed in several Gods. Are these all existing? Is the religion that was a result of believing in several Gods only possible to exist the way it does because all those Gods really exist? Are all different religions basically referring to the same God? What about the religion Buddhism? Can only one religion be addressing the right God?

 

Urgh, I am using too many words and feel like I am just repeating what I just said. And I hate that English is not my natural language and that performal I am much better than verbal, but what use is that when only your written words will be interpretated.

Anyway, do you now understand the basics of what I meant to say?

[86Timewarp]

Curious, isn't religion centered around god(s, esses)? :confused:

[Cyan Kat]

I don't believe in religion so much anymore but I refuse to believe that everything is just 'chance'. I think the Universe isn't the first that there have been others, and that we are surrounded by millions of other Universes that we cannot reach or communicate with.

 

I think that the Universe as a whole is a kind of cycle which ends and begins much like living things on Earth, the stars etc. I don't think we'll ever know what created the Universe or what the purpose is but it's just something that's supposed to be a mystery and maybe the meaning of life is something as simple as finding happiness.

[Wyrd]

Curious, isn't religion centered around god(s, esses)? :confused:

It's centered around the believe in God (s, esses) and that not even necessarily, like with Buddhism.

 

Having religion doesn't necessary imply there has to be a God.

It's a cultural believe system.

 

So I guess you don't get what I mean?

[Cyan Kat]

It's centered around the believe in God (s, esses) and that not even necessarily, like with Buddhism.

 

Having religion doesn't necessary imply there has to be a God.

It's a cultural believe system.

 

So I guess you don't get what I mean?

Sorry I hadn't read your post, I kinda get what you mean...

I understand that religion is much more than just a belief in God and that it depends on your culture and what teachings have been passed down... but there's so many words in your long post and I'm kinda confused as to what exactly your asking

/noob.

[Wyrd]

Oh, I'm sorry, that wasn't directed at you. It was to Billy.

[Empily]

[ame=

]

[/ame]

 

I found this which I found vaguely luls, but I didn't know where to put it

 

so I put it here

[rainplay]

^lol I got 20 seconds in, then gave up

 

As for God existing or not existing? Who knows..

 

But, for me, I just think about the very beginning , and how everything just blinked into existence and then just started expanding and expanding...Like, where did it come from? I personally don't think it/we just came from nothing..But then, apparently particles blink in and out of existence constantly..and then I think all of the weird shit that goes on in the universe like warp holes, time changing with speed and ugghhghgh my head just hurts thinking about it.

 

I sometimes wish I was more driven in school so I could pursue like a physics career and study things like that..Too bad physics puts me to sleep.

 

So I dunno, I guess I do believe in something...

[SupermassiveCPnerd]

But isn't that kind of a circular argument? By saying that, you're basing your thoughts on why you think there isn't a God on the fact that there is a God. :thinking:

 

 

 

Personally, I believe in a divine being. I am a member of a Christian church, but that being said I'm not one of particularly strong faith........I figure that no matter who God is, nothing bad ever comes out of striving to be the best person I am, so that's what I do.

 

If that makes any sense. :|

 

Yes, it totally makes sense to me. I was thinking hard on what I should write in reply to all of this, but I don't think I could have said it better.

[The Mad Hatter]

Of course the universe could be godless.

 

It's much simpler to accept that.

 

In the case of a god, it would probably have to be eternal to exist before the universe. And probably be unchanging, as I'm wondering what kind of change would be necessary for a being that would probably be omnipotent, as creator of the universe (though I'm sure there's better evidence in support of an unchanging god), and as an eternal creator being, it would be omniscient, as it would be creator.

 

I imagine a stale god like this would be apathetic towards his creation, if it is unchanging, but the fact it created would mean it couldn't be unchanging. Hmm.

 

A lot of people who do not believe often ask where God is or where a god is. Maybe it's just out there, as uncaring as he was before the creation of the universe, and the inaction of this god is the one thing that should make us believe. But that is where faith comes in, as one can either view the occurrences of the universe as god-driven or effects of the lack of a god. I guess that's where some people start to believe that we are gods, or create our own gods.

 

Or, this god is love, and created the universe out of love, and punished out of love, and remained withdrawn (out of love), and loves just because it is love. A loving god is the constant, eternal, unchanging thing, rather than simply a god.

 

Or, this god is atoms and they create and pull apart and are not unchanging.

 

lol. i tried to make sense but nyquil and fever.

 

Faith is hard as hell to keep, but I guess that those with faith stand to gain more than they could lose. But that's no reason to have faith. At least for me. I think it's more important to keep faith in God or whatever else because it's what right, but that's a different discussion and harder to even talk about or make sense of. So I'm stopping.