After death

[Tnspieler1012]

I'd like to add to that, that science can only tell us that much with some certainty. Often enough we thought we knew something for sure and it was proven false, and surely enough there are things we cannot measure, we cannot grasp and/or we cannot sense. Like Mrk says, there's only so much people are capable of understanding and this is also the case for scientists. Scientists may only have made part of the world understandable and very likely to be like that, but that doesn't mean it's the only world there is.

i think what many neglect to acknowledge about philosophy and the sciences is that beneath a small assortment of 'certainties' is an iceberg of work excluding mythical, unscientific ideas.

When I think of a concept like the 'soul' this brings basic questions up like Dee's dilemma 'I don't really know what a soul is'. I don't know if Dee meant it like that, but I am wondering in what way people experience a soul and what makes them convinced it is a soul and do different people view a soul the same way? Is the concept of a soul for Socrates the same as for a nowaday christian?

In short, no. Religion aside, argued 'soul' theories are mostly grounded in substance dualism. The idea that the conscious mind is fundamentally distinct from the physical brain ("can a brain surgeon see a thought etc."). This is generally rejected by the academic community, though there are more popular variations that keep some kind of dualism intact. The problem is that necessary immortality of this conscious side never really enters into it, so most apologists and theologians don't bother trying to debate the issue in the secular arena the way they often do with ethics or the existence of a deity.

[Batman]

Sometimes I envy animals. Life kinda sucks when you know it ends someday :|

[Prince Myshkin]

Ignorance isn't bliss.

[Batman]

Ignorance isn't bliss.

Imagine you would know that after you die you will end up in hell and endure torment for eternity, no matter how nice you are during your lifetime, would it make your life better if you knew it?

Or would you prefer wondering what might happen after death and just live your life and don't care about it?

[Reilly]

Hmm, ignorance isn't bliss? I'm not sure you've thought that through but I can't be bothered explaining. Well basically, you're aware of knowledge you want to attain, and while that may be fulfilling and rewarding, a lot of it isn't, it's stressful and damaging, ignorance means you simply don't go through that, and if you're dumb as a brick you will be happy just doing nothing.

[Prince Myshkin]

Imagine you would know that after you die you will end up in hell and endure torment for eternity, no matter how nice you are during your lifetime, would it make your life better if you knew it?

Or would you prefer wondering what might happen after death and just live your life and don't care about it?

 

Fair enough, though the chances of that are as remote as any other random outcome, including that when you die it turns out that had you chopped off your left foot at the age of seventeen you'd have had thirty minute long orgasms for the rest of your life.

 

Generally speaking though, ignorance is not bliss. It is simply ignorance. Being an animal would be the equivalent of never living as you wouldn't comprehend it in anywhere near the same way. Of course you would feel suffering, so I'm not saying animals don't matter, but compared to the life you are living now there would be no conscious appreciation.

[Prince Myshkin]

Hmm, ignorance isn't bliss? I'm not sure you've thought that through but I can't be bothered explaining. Well basically, you're aware of knowledge you want to attain, and while that may be fulfilling and rewarding, a lot of it isn't, it's stressful and damaging, ignorance means you simply don't go through that, and if you're dumb as a brick you will be happy just doing nothing.

 

To be honest I was more talking in terms of comparison of being a human or an animal.

[Prince Myshkin]

You might as well ignore the ignorance isn't bliss comment. Far too vague.

[Prince Myshkin]

What would you choose for there to be after death if you had the choice?

[Batman]

You might as well ignore the ignorance isn't bliss comment. Far too vague.

okay

What would you choose for there to be after death if you had the choice?

I posted that on the previous page. I want alllllll the answers! :wacky:

[Tnspieler1012]

What would you choose for there to be after death if you had the choice?

 

Free kebabs on Wednesdays.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

I don't want speculate much. I'll find out soon enough. I will say, I see there is no way the soul is just part of the brain.

[RedBalloon]

There are many publications on this matter [i didn't go through every post in this thread]~ It happened that I've just received a message from Dr. Brian Weiss on Dr. Brian Weiss to Appear on Oprah’s Super Soul Sunday [on June 2nd, 11am ET/PT time] which you might be interested in~ Here are two related links:

 

http://secure.elabs6.com/functions/message_view.html?mid=2111205&mlid=20949&siteid=12346080&uid=a3cc074ab0;

http://www.oprah.com/own-supersoulsunday/blogs/Is-Your-Past-Life-Causing-You-Pain-Today

[Wyrd]

I don't think there's a real afterlife, but I used to think there was this giant house where you can be with all you family members/friends/pets/... that already passed away

we would live like we did here but it's so much more fun, 'cause you can be with people that you never really knew or your idols :wacky:

Yeah I love my little innocent 7 year old self :p[/color]

I have heard more people saying that, like you would be with your loved ones or your biggest love. But this seems impossible to me, because your biggest love might very well not consider you to be his biggest love ... does that mean he will be there with you anyway? Or will he be with his biggest love?

And someone who you consider a friend and want to be with, might not feel the same about it and prefer another group of friends to be with ... everyone is entangled with everyone, how do you know who to fit into the house?

If the group is taylor made for you, are those people really the people from life or are they dummies/clones, because they have to be in other houses as well? Will you be happy knowing that one of your friends is in the house but not her mother that you hate so much, but she loves her mother. Or is the mother there as well and you hate her being there or is she suddenly a lovable person? Is she still the same person then?

 

How does it go with your appearance? I mean surely bodies wouldn't be there right? Because will you have scars or none and what age would you look like? If there's just spirits/souls, are they like how they were when they just died? Two year old you is not 40 year old you (though people might already disagree on this). Does that mean that if you are happily married and you pass away in your thirties, you end up in heaven, your spous remarries and changes so much that when he dies in his 80s and gets into heaven, he is not the spirit anymore you'd wish to be with. Or you want to, but he doesn't. How does this work?

Can we have an idea of what it would be like, or can we not comprehend?

[Prince Myshkin]

I don't want speculate much. I'll find out soon enough. I will say, I see there is no way the soul is just part of the brain.

 

How come?

(Not an aggressive question)

 

I have heard more people saying that, like you would be with your loved ones or your biggest love. But this seems impossible to me, because your biggest love might very well not consider you to be his biggest love ... does that mean he will be there with you anyway? Or will he be with his biggest love?

And someone who you consider a friend and want to be with, might not feel the same about it and prefer another group of friends to be with ... everyone is entangled with everyone, how do you know who to fit into the house?

If the group is taylor made for you, are those people really the people from life or are they dummies/clones, because they have to be in other houses as well? Will you be happy knowing that one of your friends is in the house but not her mother that you hate so much, but she loves her mother. Or is the mother there as well and you hate her being there or is she suddenly a lovable person? Is she still the same person then?

 

How does it go with your appearance? I mean surely bodies wouldn't be there right? Because will you have scars or none and what age would you look like? If there's just spirits/souls, are they like how they were when they just died? Two year old you is not 40 year old you (though people might already disagree on this). Does that mean that if you are happily married and you pass away in your thirties, you end up in heaven, your spous remarries and changes so much that when he dies in his 80s and gets into heaven, he is not the spirit anymore you'd wish to be with. Or you want to, but he doesn't. How does this work?

Can we have an idea of what it would be like, or can we not comprehend?

 

Indeed. If it would be what you wanted for the rest of your life, then it wouldn't be real. Unless you weren't conscious of the fact that you were in heaven and everything was just awesome. Unless it was a situation where there's multiple versions of yourself, like in my opening post. Then it would be truly with the person. You get to be with the versions of people you knew. Except obviously they were all super cool having been absolved of all sin. You could chill with Hitler.

 

I always wonder what the technology would be like too. Would it have current consoles, old consoles, new consoles and you can pick and choose what you want? Or would you be limited to what was available when you were alive? Or does heaven progress at the same speed as earth when it comes to technological advancement?

 

If any of that were to be true (and I don't think it is), it would have to be interdimensional as paradise would have no boundaries, so each individual would feel like they had a universe for their lives, whether they were conscious of being in heaven or not.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

It's just a matter of faith. There is no proof either way.

[The Doctor]

I have heard more people saying that, like you would be with your loved ones or your biggest love. But this seems impossible to me, because your biggest love might very well not consider you to be his biggest love ... does that mean he will be there with you anyway? Or will he be with his biggest love?

And someone who you consider a friend and want to be with, might not feel the same about it and prefer another group of friends to be with ... everyone is entangled with everyone, how do you know who to fit into the house?

If the group is taylor made for you, are those people really the people from life or are they dummies/clones, because they have to be in other houses as well? Will you be happy knowing that one of your friends is in the house but not her mother that you hate so much, but she loves her mother. Or is the mother there as well and you hate her being there or is she suddenly a lovable person? Is she still the same person then?

 

How does it go with your appearance? I mean surely bodies wouldn't be there right? Because will you have scars or none and what age would you look like? If there's just spirits/souls, are they like how they were when they just died? Two year old you is not 40 year old you (though people might already disagree on this). Does that mean that if you are happily married and you pass away in your thirties, you end up in heaven, your spous remarries and changes so much that when he dies in his 80s and gets into heaven, he is not the spirit anymore you'd wish to be with. Or you want to, but he doesn't. How does this work?

Can we have an idea of what it would be like, or can we not comprehend?

 

it was just little me thinking of my granddad you know

I made this up when he died :blank:

don't start asking difficult questions

[Prince Myshkin]

It's just a matter of faith. There is no proof either way.

 

Indeed. But there must be something behind such faith. And that intrigues me just as much as the explanation of what happens.

[Prince Myshkin]

That's not me forcing you to share such things of course. Just a statement of fact with regards to myself.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Everything I've seen and experienced has led me to believe in Christianity, even though I'm horrible at having a relationship with Jesus. I hate saying Christianity because that's man-made, but a relationship with God is real. I need to believe it, because I don't think I have much longer in life and believe in something after.

[Prince Myshkin]

That's very strange because nothing I have ever seen implies a God. Of course this doesn't rule out there being one. But nothing I've seen places a God as more likely than no God. If you see Christianity as man made, which parts do you feel that the current manifestation of whichever denomination you follow are currently correct, and which ones are not, or are unproven? How would you define a God if you believe a relationship with it is real? Once again you don't have to answer these questions.

[Crests]

For death, I guess I believe in an afterlife and a heaven. (I often fear that everything I believe is just attributed to confirmation bias though).

However, as time's gone by I've started to abandon the idea of a hell, just because it turned the entire concept of Christianity basically upside down and turned God into something much more reminiscent of an abusive boyfriend or husband. Once I got rid of that a lot of things I never understood related to God and faith made a lot of sense, once you take away a factor of manipulation.

Something I often think about though, is if this whole thing about being saved from whatever is what it's said to be, is why we need to be saved by God for something God was gonna do to us, like saving us from himself.

The closest thing to a Hell I believe in is something like purgatory, it makes more sense that that's what's really being talked about all this time.

This is either something I actually believe or something I've convinced myself to save my belief in God, either way it works for me.

[RedBalloon]

Here are some links of Prof. Lee Si-Chen, from National Taiwan University, who has conducted a series of scientific experiments to research the relations among so called "Body, Mind and Spirit", for those who are more Rational oriented or having doubts on different religions' comparison etc. here is the resource you shall not miss: http://sclee.ee.ntu.edu.tw/english/mind/mind.htm

(2) Existence and Properties of the Information Field (Spiritual World): this one is very popular and has lots of amazing "discoveries". Easy to read and you may download the PDF for a reference - Highly Recommend :)!!!. If you search Prof. Lee Si-Chen [with other keywords, such as "Finger Reading: Exploring the Information Field; Mind - Matter; Parapsychology] online, you might find a "two parts" video of him giving lectures to the public on how he conducted the experiments and what he had discovered~ very important message!

Another one is: http://www.chikung.org.tw/etxt/a002.htm for Third Eye, or other special abilities~

[Prince Myshkin]

For death, I guess I believe in an afterlife and a heaven. (I often fear that everything I believe is just attributed to confirmation bias though).

However, as time's gone by I've started to abandon the idea of a hell, just because it turned the entire concept of Christianity basically upside down and turned God into something much more reminiscent of an abusive boyfriend or husband. Once I got rid of that a lot of things I never understood related to God and faith made a lot of sense, once you take away a factor of manipulation.

Something I often think about though, is if this whole thing about being saved from whatever is what it's said to be, is why we need to be saved by God for something God was gonna do to us, like saving us from himself.

The closest thing to a Hell I believe in is something like purgatory, it makes more sense that that's what's really being talked about all this time.

This is either something I actually believe or something I've convinced myself to save my belief in God, either way it works for me.

 

Seems like a healthier headspace to be in. In the long term (as in for the rest of your life), would you be happy to believe in something in order to save your belief in God, even if you had massive doubts about those beliefs? Or do you think you'd be able to push it to the back of your mind and maintain the belief without entirely interacting with it, just in case it was to crumble under too much scrutiny?