one of the best singer/song writers of all time , seriously

I believe you! but I never feel with the need of hear his music!

fair enough alfredo

Thanks anyway Reuben

kool man :)

this all seems like it's winding down. yay! I'm never coming back to this thread, because no matter how much people argue, it never gets anywhere, even when they're acting hypocritical and not bothering to have an open mind.

 

very sadly, America is like this in so many ways.

Crystal>pathetic...who says it fell out of the sky?

 

idsadmin\\\ It's in the bible.

"As the white glistening snowflakes fall, my eyes do behold the bread of heaven falling as manna in the wilderness.

White, White, Bread of Heaven "

 

Crystal^^^^ Sorry! I thought you were refering to the time when there was only a few loaves of bread and jsut a couple of fish..and they were made into many...not the manna :freak:

 

Crystal>How is it that our bodies work in the perfect way they do? How is it that even our hands are built in a way that, the lengths of our fingers are precisely place to grab things..any things? And our eyes see color, and color exists to begin with? How is it that all of our cells just KNOW what to do with out our telling them? Or how something as seemingly small as dirt gives nutrience to a plant? That in itself is a miracle to me. Scientists have studied these things for ages and are still discovering these "miracles".

 

idsadmin\\\ Yes, these things you mentioned above is amazing but that still does not prove there is a God. You think that fingers, our cells are designed by God? What about Cancer, Sudden Infant Disease... is that God's design as well? The truth is, nobody knows how life started and the qwest for the answer will always be ongoing. In the beggining, many things in life that COULDN'T be explained was said to be God's work. As time goes by more and more things are being explained scientifically while things that were once taken as faith to be religious events are being shown to have scientific answers. At one point in time people thought that lightning was mystical and thunder was the anger of the gods.... you would be a fool to believe so today. How can one's faith in something predicate actual scientific proof.

Our bodies, plants, nature..all amazing designs...but in the end it still does NOT prove there is a God.

 

Crystal^^^^God did not creat cancer of or SIDs. Those are imperfections created by the sins of Adam and Eve. We inherited them.

I mean...in my beliefs, right now, Satan is the ruler of this earth, not God. Because man is ruled by evil (as can be clearly seen by all of the happenings). So all of these imperfections are to his liking (not God).

 

No..you are right. I cannot prove and mere mortals cannot prove scientifically that God existis and that he is creator. As I said...that is a belief I hold with my faith in Him. That is all I meant by it. I did mention that He as creator cannot be proven.

 

 

Crystal>So you see, if he has made our bodies and the functions of all life so perfect and precise to work on their own...surely he could split the sea or make a little bread turn into a lot. Those seem alot more simple miracles than the way our bodies work or the atmosphere or the heavens with plantes revolving at such a way that we are not burned by the sun, but are not frozen either.

 

idsadmin///// Again, how do you know for sure "He" is responsible for our bodies and functions? Where is your proof.

 

Crystal^^^^ Again, there is no proof, that was not my point. My point to YOU is that many people, such as I, live by the faith from what is learned and believed in our hearts.

 

CrystalYet they can't really prove that God does or does not exist. I cannot either. But there's this thing called faith. I have faith that God is my creator and the creator of all things dwelling on this planet.

Based on what I have read in the bible.

 

idsadmin//// I respect that you have Faith in something that can't be seen or touched and many people choose to do that. Your faith though still does not prove anything other than your belief. If it helps you in life to believe he is looking down at you, that's great, but my common sense brings up too many questions, so I have to question it.

 

Crystal^^^Seeing as maybe you see the more scientific part of things, let me say something as simple as this: The air that blows at your body, you do not see it...do you? But it is there science or not...you feel it. To me, that is the same way that I believe in God. I trust by my faith that he has created me and that he began history and can end it as well.

It is good to question things, that is how I learned the things I know, and by no means am I trying to sway your well instilled opinions, I only mean to straighten mine out.

 

Plus, if you are more of a historian, then surely you can see that the prophesies in the bible are precise enough and have come true (most of them anyway). That there are events in histroy that were predicted hundreds and hundreds of years in advance.

 

idsadmin//// Since the beggining of man, there has always been natural disasters and war, nothing new there. I would be impressed if there were actual dates, but you will never see that. Nostradamus for example, people swear that he predicted the future in various times. Fact is, people will see what they want to see.

" Look at the stars, doesn't that part look like a dog? Oh Yes, it kinda does!" It's the power of suggestion.

 

Crystal^^^Have you ever read the book of Daniel..in the bible? Read it and research what is believed about it (it would take me days to explain it to you) But this one would be good for you to see (if you should decide) how many of todays prophesies are and have come true. Not vague ones either...like war and famine, disaster, suffering...those have always existed. I do reccomend that you research that one book. Then you will see that most prophesies are not so vague.

 

idsadminThe human mind is easily swayed and molded, ask questions and really be informed before making a life long commitment

Crystal you are my hero! :)

 

I like your determination and the way you think!

I was just hoping to clear myself out...it is easy to think these things in my head, but to try to write ideas out is real tough for me :confused:

Just stop. Right there.

 

Excuse me, do YOU know what God wants? Do you actually KNOW what his (or her *GASP*) plan is for everyone? That's certainly the impression that you give.

I somewhat agree with this part, I have no idea what God's plans or ways are and nobody does.

And it is certainly not "immoral". It is different. It's unfamiliar. They may be your beliefs, but how can you honestly look at another human who's gay and say what they're doing is wrong? They're not hurting anybody. If you didn't know someone was gay, and you liked them just fine, then you'd probably be friends with them, right?

unfortunately I have to go, but I'll be back later :/ so please excuse me for not following up on whatever I say. Who makes morals? There is no such thing as truth unless you believe in a conscience. Why is murder immoral? You want to say it's because everyone is equal, but that's your opinion. So is your opinion morality? I personally believe that the truth is God creates the laws and morality is simply our opinions. God created men and women for the purpose of marriage and to be happy that way, not to get divorced or have multiple partners. It was God's purpose, not my moral belief that homosexuality is wrong. But he didn't make us for 'sex' alone, he gave us sex for happiness along with a couple of rules and unfortunately I have to go now. Bye

:D just making sure the scientist06 saw this

Response to Crystal:

 

The problem with Religion and Faith is that it's based on Assumptions, for example:

 

A.God created the sun

B.Satan rules the earth

C.God has a plan for all of us

D.God turned water into wine

 

The second you begin any discussion without proving example points A,B,C,D..everything stands on shaky ground. Sure you can bring out your Ace in the deck with faith but that's where you stop. Earlier, you mentioned how we can't see air going through our lungs and how you compare that with the existance of God. The flaw in your air theory is that

 

1. You can scientifically measure air in your body, hospitals do it all the time (You can't measure God in any way)

2. You can see the air you breathe out in cold atmospheres (You can't see God)

3. You can feel the air you breathe in (You can't feel God)

 

I give you facts and examples how air exists through our human senses, You can't do any of these things with God...everything is explained by faith which in a logical world based on laws can't hold water.

 

You tell me you read the book of Daniel, and I challenge you to tell me 1 thing that proves beyond a doubt that it was forseen. I want a date and all the details involved, nothing vague. Your belief that events that happen now have been predicted in the past shows how you have been, shall I say "brainwashed" to think these events have been forseen. Honestly, if the book of Daniel was truly a catalog of things that happend and will happen there would be nothing to ponder, we would all believe in Bible and therefore God.

 

Now that we got that out of the way, let me ask you this question? Do you really believe in these miracles of faith?

 

How about walking on liquid water? Peter reportedly was able to do so by faith (Matt. 14). How about casting a mountain into the sea, which Jesus specifically said those with faith can do (Matt. 21:21)? It would probably not be a good idea to test whether people can consume deadly poison, even though Jesus specifically promised that such a thing could be done (Mark 16:18). A better trick would be to raise the dead, which Jesus said was permitted, and he commanded his disciples to do it (Matt. 10:8).

 

Look deep in yourself and ask yourself can these things really happen? My guess is that these are stories and people believe these things just as kids believe in Santa Claus. Of course my intention is not to sway you in any way, just expressing my view. I just want people to think with thier head and not be tunnel visioned by the masses and to ask logical questions.

 

 

I have faith about lots of things. I have faith that objects fall down and the sun will come up tomorrow. Proof should support faith, not require faith to support it.

The two most important questions in this thread seem to be

a) is being gay a choice?

b) does God exist?

Well, as for b) we can only guess... But I can assure you that being gay is never a choice. Why would anyone consciously choose to be part of a discriminated minority? Well, I sure as hell didn't choose, neither did Aaron, neither did any gay or bi person I know of. After all, it is so much easier to be straight: you can assume that about 75% of the people you encounter has the same sexuality as you do, you don't have to bother "coming out" about being straight, because after all, everyone in your vicinity assumes you are straight, you don't have to be afraid of being condemned by the major religions in this world and you don't have to be afraid of being discriminated or beat up in the street (ever seen the newspapers headlining: "Bunch of angry fags beat innocent straight man"?). Most of all: you will be accepted. And as a gay person, you won't always be.

Therefore, isn't it ridiculous to condemn gay people? It would be like condemning the blond or shortsighted or black in this world: you punish someone for something they were born with.

three questions, actually. if god exists, is s/he the god we think s/he is?

To that I'd say: probably not... Christians always say that God created mankind according to his own image, but it's the other way around: mankind created God according to their own image. If God does exists, s/he or it is probably way different than everyone thinks.

you sorta have a point. god image is described in the bible sortof, but his physical image isnt that important sadly people make it that way. like my freind got into a arguement with some moron saying jesus was a white anglo person, but when jesus was human he was a jew. but what your saying about god being different then what we think, we'll only physicaly, he's made clear who he is a life force.

Well, that's what you say, but doesn't that differ for every person?

you sorta have a point. god image is described in the bible sortof' date=' but his physical image isnt that important sadly people make it that way. like my freind got into a arguement with some moron saying jesus was a white anglo person, but when jesus was human he was a jew. but what your saying about god being different then what we think, we'll only physicaly, he's made clear who he is a life force.[/quote']

i didn't mean physically, i meant "if there is a god, are we getting the right messages from her/him?"

 

and believe it or not, the whole world doesn't read and follow the bible.

no way???

So what did you think of gay people again? Wasn't it something like disgusting? I didn't quite follow...

If there ever was a god I'd say he created everything and then took off, maybe returns after some thousands of years to see how things are going. That's also a theory. ;)

man! i feel so bad for create this thread!!! mods should be block it

whyy?? you did nothing wrong or bad or have any reason to feel bad about it.