We were never apes though, that is a HUGE confusion people have, In very very simple terms there was an animal that due to various factors ended up splitting off into 2 different species before dying off itself, Humans and Apes were those 2 branches, we are related in that sense, but it's not like it is so often incorrectly stated that we evolved from apes.

 

MrNick please, read a modern book on evolution, like I said earlier Dawkins has the best accounts of it. The theory itself has evolved from Darwin's original thesis. I dunno how you can sit there and claim there to be no proof and for there to be no solid theory. It's ridiculous.

 

 

Good point with the 2 branches aspect of it. I never really looked at it from that way. Ill pick up a book sometime and read more about theories of evolution. Im quite open to many different aspects and enjoy learning new things.

I've studied evolution, it lacks any science, it's a joke. I would like to believe it, it would be cool but I cannot deny science. I recently read a book by a very smart biologist showing how evolution is wrong. I simply cannot deny science because of some popular belief. The world is not flat and evolution is false.

So what is your opinion of global warming? Do you believe it to exist or is it something that is made up? The reason why I am asking this is because when it comes to science there are two different opposing sides. For example, one group of scientists say that global warming is real while another group would say that it doesn't, and this can also be said of evolution. Whatever you feel about the subject tends to make you believe more of one side no matter what and refusal to look at the information from the other view point.

 

I hate to say this but I can not believe that I agree with some of what Horrific guy, and I do mean Horrific, said. :laugh3:

Global warming exist and then global cooling exist.... cycles happen and people ride them trying to milk them for more money or power, it's the way life has been since the beginning of man. It's a power play. I simply try to keep an open mind and look at the science and facts, I cannot believe something because it is popular.

Well, basically we're all monkeys, so let's all have a banana and vocalize a bit!:laugh3:

I am perfectly fine with believing in the Jesus novels, in the sense that if we are all part of a universe that through all improbability of events led to life and to us, and the improbability of sophisticated culture and the understandings we have today, and the improbability of Jesus, or Mohamed, or Ghandi, or Buddha, or Taoism, or the Aztec Leaders, then all these individuals, their cultures, and their stories have significantly impacted our existence to allow us to arrive at where we are today. For I think there's more evolving than just cells and cellular DNA, but the evolution of thought as well, and the significance of belief cannot be discounted in affecting us. Any stabilizer that puts great value on fair play in society also inadvertently leads to a cultural and intellectual renaissance as shared values and mutual respect build the sorts of societies in which men and women engaged in scientific study and exploration can flourish, and society and technology can advance.

No need to disparage the well-founded theory of Evolution, but to understand we have only begun to understand the intricacies of our interconnectedness, and the caveats we discover that change the simplistic to an enlarged understanding. Hence, recognizing that genes do pass across species' borders, as is the case with transposable elements, and then seeing that evolution still is a guiding principle, but with some unique transport mechanisms for DNA at times, appears logical to me. But we do need to keep testing some basic assumptions from time to time. (ie - Galileo believed that winds caused the tides..)

However, there is clear evidence for evolutionary theory, and a theory in science is based on a great deal of corroborating evidence that suggests a likelihood of it being correct. We can see evidence in the development of a human from fertilized egg cell to newborn; in the adaptations of birds in the Galapagos islands; in bacterial cultures, and in more subtle variations which make sense according to the rules of natural selection.

But one thing to consider that I had earlier discounted - is the effect of selection pressure in the absence of predators. In essence, then the distinct advantage is with plumage in birds which is flash to attract mates or discourage rivals; even in we humans, things such as hair color and eye color may serve little purpose except to excite a mate, or by the cultures' traditional views of beauty, may be selected for or against. Hence, strangely enough, our minds thoughts and our collective values have already influenced evolution in some unusual ways! A tribe in Africa has blond, curly hair - because 'golden' hair was seen as a mark of greater beauty by that tribe's definition. Or the shape of one's nose can be the direct result of what is seen as 'beautiful' in a particular culture. So, whether we like it or not, we have already controlled evolution without even fully realizing it!:)

Basically there is no proof or real evidence were all monkeys. Clouds and watermelons are 98% the same thing, but they're not the same.

 

There has been no scientific data showing species change to other species. However species change within their own species.

A theory cannot be proven absolutely, or else it would not be a theory. But there is a great deal of corroborating evidence; and I was only half-joking about humans being monkeys. Although, we do share a great deal in common with many monkeys, especially chimpanzees. Look at breeds of dogs, just to see how much variation within a species is possible; but at first glance, it's difficult to imagine a chiuaua is related to a Saint Bernard, and yet they are!

Along similar lines, one could hardly imagine a modern automobile as the gradual evolution from steam engines, bicycles, bottle atomizers, buggies, steam carriages, and physics experiments.. comparing the first autos to the latest ones makes it appear that they could not be related, but the changes are gradual and step-wise over time.

As a child I always believed that both creationism and evolution worked together. I believed in a God who created life, but then from there, things on their own envolved and today what we have is the result of envolving..

*maybs god helps a bit, i dunno, i dunno*

 

But, one will never know...

*shakes head* We aren't monkeys. BUT. Using the correct terms, we do have the same ancestors as primates.

 

 

And on that topic: FTW. Richard Dawkins is coming to my alma mater Michigan State University. I've gots to gets me some tickets to see him!!

Look at the wager

 

Either you believe in evolution, and when you die your dead and there's no afterlife

 

Or you believe in creationism, and if it is in fact wrong, than there's no afterlife and the outcome is the same as believing in evolutionism.

 

However, if creationism is correct than you will have eternal life.

 

So either believe in evolutionism and live immorally or however you want

Or believe in creationism because it offers a chance for a reward (but you can't live immorally).

I'm taking a Science/Philosophy class this semester that deals with evolution and creationism can't wait either.

To me, it's not a wager; we're given great minds to unravel the mysteries! The way I see it, we're all in this complex process of interactions, but within our own minds and between minds this interaction goes on, as well as in all sorts of physical realms. As a 'flux' of sorts, the living fluid of ideas, emotions, neural connections, physical being, and our interactions with other living beings, life itself, and the universe.. So, if we understand better ourselves and our interactions, we can and do create a better civilization, which improves the well being of both ourselves & others, present and future. Wisdom leads to the better choices, but we do choose, with a variety of results. Choosing a more humane, just, compassionate, and fairly motivated world bears out better fruits on average..

To believe in evolution is not to be "free to choose to live immorally", as immoral behavior weakens society and thus diminishes our capacity to achieve a greater understanding of things such as evolution. Without equity, true greatness cannot be achieve. With equity comes stability and cooperation, and then evolutionary study can proceed to a greater level of understanding.

 

Look at the wager

 

Either you believe in evolution, and when you die your dead and there's no afterlife

 

Or you believe in creationism, and if it is in fact wrong, than there's no afterlife and the outcome is the same as believing in evolutionism.

 

However, if creationism is correct than you will have eternal life.

 

So either believe in evolutionism and live immorally or however you want

Or believe in creationism because it offers a chance for a reward (but you can't live immorally).

 

Completely false, you can believe in both evolution and God or neither, it does not have to be one or the other. My problem with evolution is purely from a scientific stand point, nothing to do with religion.

 

It's stupid to think its one or the other,it could be both or none in some people's opinions. Its all about having an open mind.

*shakes head* We aren't monkeys. BUT. Using the correct terms, we do have the same ancestors as primates.

Basically, we're monkeys pretty much, but without the tails!:P Primates, if you prefer.. Development in the womb actually suggests that Chimpanzees are one step further along a series of stages; they're gaining on us!:laugh3:

 

 

And on that topic: FTW. Richard Dawkins is coming to my alma mater Michigan State University. I've gots to gets me some tickets to see him!!

YAY!!! Go Dawkins!!! Go Michigan State!:cool:

Look at the wager

 

Either you believe in evolution, and when you die your dead and there's no afterlife

 

Or you believe in creationism, and if it is in fact wrong, than there's no afterlife and the outcome is the same as believing in evolutionism.

 

However, if creationism is correct than you will have eternal life.

 

So either believe in evolutionism and live immorally or however you want

Or believe in creationism because it offers a chance for a reward (but you can't live immorally).

 

That's exactly the argument I objected to in my last post. The issues evolution and religion/God, are completely independent of each other. Proving or disproving one does not prove or disprove the other. Evolution doesn't disprove the existence of God. and theism doesn't conflict with the theory of evolutionism. In other words, it's not an either/or...it can be both or neither as well. It's a far cry from Pascal's wager.

interesting bump.

Basically there is no proof or real evidence were all monkeys. Clouds and watermelons are 98% the same thing, but they're not the same.

 

There has been no scientific data showing species change to other species. However species change within their own species.

I believe in that, yes.

I believe in some evolution and I can't see why it won't happen among one species.

 

However, what I took about evolution in regards of how the world was created (which was, indeed, a simple shortened theory I took in school), to me, always sounded as complete and utter nonsense and correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I believe in creationism strongly as I am a religious person. Also, what always backs my believe in God is nature.

Everytime I watch one of those Animal Planet or Nat Geo Wild channels (and I do so often) I feel as if it strengthens my believe in God. And to think that all of that has been created out of nothing. The endless amount of animals out there, of all kinds and sorts and colours and beauty is just hard for me to think it came from nothing without having a greater power put in its hand in all of that one way or the other.

Read a book.

 

Dawkins tells Evolution like it is, it's amazing how many people think we evolved FROM apes, that's wrong.

I probably will.

 

Yeah, and I know about how many people think that evolution is based only on the fact that we humans have evolved from apes and that's that. That sums up the whole evolution theory but you've got the movies and TV to blame for that.

 

However, I was talking before about the actual creation of the universe and the world and not animals changing and whatnot. Does Dawkins talk about it in his book?

Dawkins is an Evolutionary scientist, he has a large collection of books covering the topic.

 

The start of the universe is a completely different thing, it's illogical, in fact anything existing ever is illogical, how does something just exist? Doesn't make sense

Well, if you look at that way it will sound illogical. I think of it like that sometimes myself.

 

But I think if you believe in God and the fact that he created the universe then probably you won't think of it as being illogical.

 

Oh and thanks for telling me about Dawkins :)

No.

 

Adding God just adds another layer of illogicality. Where did he come from? Why can he create things? Who created him? Are there others? etc etc.

 

Adding God to something is just an excuse for ignorance, it's like "we don't understand how this happened, God must have done it!" It's a really backwards way of thinking.

^I didn't think I would say that to you, but well said :D

Again, these thoughts come to me at times and I go "Oh but where did God come from?" and so on.

In our religion though, which is based on the Quran (and it is the words of God-which not many people know of) God tells us to leave these things alone for now as as humans can never really understand them and comprehend them easily and we will get to learn about them eventually in the Apocalypse day.

Well of course they would say that, does that not strike you as really obviously telling people to remain ignorant so that you still support their religion?