Come again...When did I judge you morally? Yes, the pentateuch (however you spell it) features a much more wrathful God, than in the New Testament, but Christianity is grounded more in the updated teaching's of Jesus Christ who, to my knowledge never commanded anyone to kill or burn the houses of nonbelievers as you said. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So you can just accept a religion where one minute Yahweh floods the earth cos he's pissed off at humans, killing every single one of them...then the next sends down his son, who is actually him, but somehow still his son and was given birth to by a woman who was incorrectly described as a virgin in the English translation of the Bible? Jesus doesn't denounce a lot of the prior teachings of the bible and even if he does, does that not completely discredit everything in the bible? It's like they went "hang on a second, this is a TAD over the top" and then just re-wrote all the rules and guidelines to make them more realistic, how people can't see it as such a blatant ploy scares me. That's also a nice loophole to get out of the whole "well where are all these biblical acts now" kind of questioning.

 

I could be wrong but I believe Jesus said..."If a man is to lie with another man, he is to be stoned" That nice Jesus man wants you to kill homosexuals, I realise that is just a tiny example but it's just to prove that a lot of the teachings from the Old Testament can't just be tossed away if they don't fit in with "modern society"

 

And I was more having a go at you for being so fucking ignorant than anything else, the fact that you would just write Islam off as barbaric (just simply because, and I'm just assuming here, you associate it with terrorism) Clearly you are forgetting the Crusades. Also the fact that you just assumed I hadn't read the bible really pissed me off, why would I argue about something I knew nothing about? It would be foolish of me.

 

My last sentence was tongue in cheek.

 

Religion doesn't give your life meaning, it just adds an illusion of something happening after you die.

I shall re-iterate I don't have a problem with people believing in an all powerful entity, that doesn't affect anyone else as it is a personal thing, a personal God is not necessarily a bad thing

 

Even though it's not for me I can see the advantages to certain people

:surprised: Religious talk? Fun!!

 

I was raised Jewish but I don't believe in anything. I used to get angry at religion in general sometimes (it's hard not to when you're stuck with such wackos in your country), but I've spent a lot of time studying different religions from a purely anthropological perspective, and from that viewpoint it's all fascinating! But also incredibly scary.

 

Sometimes I like to believe in fate because coincidences and luck baffle me, but that's as far as I go (which pisses my parents off to no end :rolleyes: They're getting over it, though).

I could be wrong but I believe Jesus said..."If a man is to lie with another man, he is to be stoned" That nice Jesus man wants you to kill homosexuals, I realise that is just a tiny example but it's just to prove that a lot of the teachings from the Old Testament can't just be tossed away if they don't fit in with "modern society"

 

Jesus never said anything about homosexuals or stoning them, look it up if you want. And in the new testament he set right many jewish laws of the time, such as those concerned with fasting and stoning, as illustrated with his rescue of the adulterous woman (based on this, I doubt his merciful behavior would've varied had she been a homosexual male).

 

 

And I was more having a go at you for being so fucking ignorant than anything else, the fact that you would just write Islam off as barbaric (just simply because, and I'm just assuming here, you associate it with terrorism) Clearly you are forgetting the Crusades. Also the fact that you just assumed I hadn't read the bible really pissed me off, why would I argue about something I knew nothing about? It would be foolish of me.

 

My last sentence was tongue in cheek.

 

Religion doesn't give your life meaning, it just adds an illusion of something happening after you die.

 

If I had rendered the wrong impression before, I apologize. I probably shouldn't have mentioned Islam at all. I do not write it off as barbaric in essence, but was merely swayed by the unjust theocratic islamic laws in place in certain nations today, such as those that condone stoning or that require four men to witness a woman's rape before she can even be acknowledged before a court.

That said, Islam, in most forms, is a very peaceful religion. I hold that its absurdly inaccurate and racist to believe that all or most muslims are terrorists. Unfortunately this good is so often overshadowed by the ills of religious fascism and anti-semitism condoned by certain areas of the population.

 

Moving on...The Crusades were a two-way street with more than religion as a motive most of the time. Throughout the middle ages there were territorial struggles waging along turkey, and especially Spain where the moors had invaded. Both sides often used this as an excuse to appeal to pope's or religious leaders of authority for support. But the fighting was as or more political than it was religious much of the time. (not that I'm dismissing the tragedy of religious war altogether, that'd be heartless..)

 

And sorry for the Bible comment, I didn't mean to insult your intelligence.

I could be wrong but I believe Jesus said..."If a man is to lie with another man, he is to be stoned" That nice Jesus man wants you to kill homosexuals, I realise that is just a tiny example but it's just to prove that a lot of the teachings from the Old Testament can't just be tossed away if they don't fit in with "modern society"

 

 

This passage has changed the way I see alot of things.

John 8

 

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

 

Just because it really talks about the whole judging thing. I mean here you have a group of people who think they know the law inside and out, dragging the scum of the earth to Jesus hoping to make him slip up. But instead of him being angry he draws in the sand and tells the goody two shoes that whoever is without sin to throw the first stone. Slowly people leave, because who are they to judge this woman.

 

And then even Jesus, who the scriptures say did not sin, who could have thrown a stone at her doesn't. Instead he tells her to leave and change her ways.

 

Wow.

 

 

 

 

<Zombiewalks3

Interesting thread this one. I am a Catholic and I attend a Catholic school. I have been born a Catholic but I am at a stage in my life where beliefs become hard to hold onto for most people. To me, I couldn't imagine not being religious. The other people around my school have no morals or values at all. i don't know whether it is religion that gives me these or not but I do believe that it does help.

 

Personally and religous beliefs aren't the same thing though. There are many people that follow a perfectly viable religion but are virtueous or kind. There are many key things to keep in mind with a religion or belief system. One is that of acceptance, mainly of other people, cultures, religions etc. and the other is to be unjudgemental. If you follow both of these things then you are basically right.

 

I have to leave in the middle of this rent so dont quote me on anything yet. Ill be back to finish later.

This passage has changed the way I see alot of things.

 

 

Just because it really talks about the whole judging thing. I mean here you have a group of people who think they know the law inside and out, dragging the scum of the earth to Jesus hoping to make him slip up. But instead of him being angry he draws in the sand and tells the goody two shoes that whoever is without sin to throw the first stone. Slowly people leave, because who are they to judge this woman.

 

And then even Jesus, who the scriptures say did not sin, who could have thrown a stone at her doesn't. Instead he tells her to leave and change her ways.

 

Wow.

 

I really like that passage as well, cos it's completely true and something I agree with fully.

 

However such blatant contradictions as this, are the reason Christianity as a whole I can't take seriously, going back to what I said earlier about Jesus just being an excuse to change the ridiculous laws they made up in the Old Testament.

 

I see your point about how that might counter any said contradictions, but for me it doesn't

 

There are just so many reasons why Christianity is ridiculous...take Judas, who is probably the most blatant example of propaganda against the jews pre-Hitler

 

Then the hidden books, one of which shows Judas in a far more flattering light, such blatant fabrication to make it say whatever they want it to.

 

---------------------------

 

 

unrelated note:

 

http://www.thebricktestament.com/

 

I found the rape scenes particularly amusing.

^haha, I saw the brick testament thing a few months ago and laughed so hard.

However such blatant contradictions as this, are the reason Christianity as a whole I can't take seriously, going back to what I said earlier about Jesus just being an excuse to change the ridiculous laws they made up in the Old Testament.

 

One good thing about the whole Jesus coming to earth thing is that it wasn't just some randomly decided act by God to change the old law. It was something that was being prophesized (spelling error I know haha) throughout the whole Old Testament. So it wasn't just some unplanned event to cover up mistakes.

There are just so many reasons why Christianity is ridiculous...take Judas, who is probably the most blatant example of propaganda against the jews pre-Hitler

 

 

I'm not sure it was just Judas but a general blame of the jewish people for calling the execution of Jesus over Barrabus. The ridiculous irony about nazi-esque antisemitism from so-called Christians is that Jesus was, of course, jewish. All the disciples were jewish, nearly every major character in the Bible was jewish. Some skinheads are too blunt to realize that Christianity is and was a sect of Judaism. Christianity as a religion didn't form for many years after Jesus's death.

Today is Wednesday of Ash, and I go to a Catholic school.

And I had Ash on my forehead all morning, obligatory.

It's nonsense. Ugh, Ash in my forehead without sense.

Yeah, I almost asked one of my friends what the hell was on their head, but then I remembered...sometimes I'm so stupid. It just looked like she randomly fell down and got dirt on her head. Yeah, I'm retarded.

I've never heard/seen of putting that on your head.

 

Religion doesn't give your life meaning, it just adds an illusion of something happening after you die.

 

I think this is one of the best ways to describe religion I've ever read.

We do the ash ritual here too and I like it.

Didn't go to church today though.

 

Is religion supposed to give your life meaning?

There's no need to add something to give life meaning, life itself is enough.

Personally, I'm not that interested in what happens after death. We'll see.

Jesus was Jewish without a doubt, and he was probably put to death by the decision of the Roman Governor of Judea; but to convert Romans to Christianity, this story was later changed to make the Pharisees the guilty party, hence allowing the spread of the religion without offending the new converts.

Ash Wednesday, the day when the ashes of palms are spread on the forehead.. I remember seeing fellow students in school with the ash smeared on their foreheads as well. It's usually smeared in the shape of a cross, but correct me if I'm mistaken?

Anyhow, as a tale of the triumph of better social values for society over corruption and the abuse of power, the Jesus stories are a good thing. The love of humanity is one of the strongest traits expressed, and the acts of selfless caring for the needy shows a high degree of emotional intelligence.

The act of allowing someone the opportunity for change, and not to engage in revenge killings nor harsh punishments metered out by imperfect members of society seems in keeping with the tone of the Jesus stories - more compassion, less harsh retribution.

If only less hardness of hearts would prevail in the world today, we would all be better off..

Yeah, I almost asked one of my friends what the hell was on their head, but then I remembered...sometimes I'm so stupid. It just looked like she randomly fell down and got dirt on her head. Yeah, I'm retarded.

 

I felt stupid. I mean, is there a need to do those rituals?

Umm.. I believe people worry to much about what happens when we die.

I dislike when people tell me i dont have morals cuz im not a christian. Please, if all christians had morals they wouldnt be so judgemental against non christians, homosexuals etc etc etc. Now, this is not all christians, I dont wanna stereotype.. but as said in the beginning of this thread... people are giving christianity a bad name. I have some friends who are christians who are very open minded*they are the mere few*

 

I went to church for about 3years of my life, than realized what a complete waste of time it was. There i was listening to some guy speak about the lord and what is gonna happen when we die*as if he really knew*

I don't think there's a need to do any rituals if you don't want to.

It should definitely not bli obligatory.

My good friend is catholic and last year during ashwednesday her church stamped their forheads, rather than doing the actualy cross with their finger.

 

made me lol.

 

And youa rent forced to get an ash on your forehead.. im sure theres thousands of catholics who dont participate in this day.

Stamped their foreheads?:stunned::laugh3: I'm trying to picture that... Oh well, it's all a part of the ritual, and for remembrance.

To me, it's basically you get what you give to life & to others, and to seek better outcomes in things in general through life lessons. Appropriateness and compassion are essential to bring about the best in our fellow humankind.

But also, to seek progress and to sing a more positive tune most of the time helps, but there are times when we all revert to a less positive mode. It's good to be firm and stand your ground when you see an injustice and it needs correcting too - where would we be if no-one did that either?? So we all have a role to play, and to each a unique part in the play that is life..

Socrates said to "honor truth"; but truly to gain wisdom, one must be stable; to be stable, one has to have love, food, company, friends, water, and sunshine. Logic alone cannot sustain us.

I think this is one of the best ways to describe religion I've ever read.

 

 

Yeah...really, there'd kinda be no point in religion if you didn't think you went anywhere after death. Never really thought about it like that.

My good friend is catholic and last year during ashwednesday her church stamped their forheads, rather than doing the actualy cross with their finger.

 

made me lol.

 

And youa rent forced to get an ash on your forehead.. im sure theres thousands of catholics who dont participate in this day.

 

Agreed!

 

I'm catholic and I did it cuz I wanted to, no one took me to the church by force.

 

I know that since you're in a catholic school you can not say 'NO' but you can also skip.... I guess:thinking:

 

However... you shouldn't feel stupid about it, it's just ash, you can just rub your hand against your forehead and it'll go away... no big deal.