Btw, I am not an atheist!!! I'm not really closed to the idea of God!! I think if there's really a God, is a complex entity nobody really would ever understand...

 

I kinda have this "romantic idea" of believing in ourselves, believing in understanding, in humanity progress... that's what we really have, not faith in what we don't see. :wink:

^Wow, I agree COMPLETELY with you! I do believe in an entity, there has to be something giving us power to live. I don't know what I believe in outside of life, however... That idea is so abstract to me, I can't even go there. We'll all find out eventually, that's for sure ;)

 

To quote John Lennon, "I believe in me, and that's reality."

Btw, I am not an atheist!!! I'm not really closed to the idea of God!! I think if there's really a God, is a complex entity nobody really would ever understand...

 

 

i wish i could believe in such a complex entity but my mind tells me that everything is based on coincidence. Nothing was meant to be, everything just "is". I don't think anything controls or started life on earth. It just came thanks to the correct circumstances to let it develop.

 

i wish there was a God though cause i don't like the idea that everything just ends with death. I don't like to believe that there really is nothing after this life but i don't think there is anything.

looks like a nice thread, I will read this completely in my free time :) as a muslim i'm curious about what people (mostly christians i think) think about the Bible..

Ok...so there is no objective proof that the car ride you take today is going to keep you safe. You have no idea if someone is going to hit you and kill you. But' date=' everyday you get into your car believing that you are safe inside of it and that nothing is going to happen. You put faith of your safety into your abilities, your car's abilities, and the other driver's abilities. The point is, you cannot prove that you are going to get in an accident and possibly die from it...but it CAN happen. So is the validity of objective truth really there? Or do you have to have faith in your life?[/quote']

I think that's a very good point that goes both ways. We can say that nobody can know with 100% certainty what's going to happen to them after they die. It can be said both ways but I'm with you in a way that... It would seem more wise to prepare for judgement than to assume there is no judgement.

I agree that faith comes with actions .. You CAN hold a belief inside of you without stepping into a church... BUT the way you carry yourself and the way you treat others must be seen with your actions. I mean' date=' biblically based.[/quote']

yes, that was exactly my point which is why I quoted: "even the demons believe and tremble"

Btw, I am not an atheist!!! I'm not really closed to the idea of God!! I think if there's really a God, is a complex entity nobody really would ever understand...

 

I kinda have this "romantic idea" of believing in ourselves, believing in understanding, in humanity progress... that's what we really have, not faith in what we don't see. :wink:

actually you are just as closed as I am about your belief in God if you will never believe in the God of the bible because I will never believe in another God.

Well Christianity, Judaism and Islam all essentially are praying to and worshipping the same God aren't they? Just a sidenote, that comment!

Well Christianity' date=' Judaism and Islam all essentially are praying to and worshipping the same God aren't they? Just a sidenote, that comment![/quote']

 

Uhmmm...I don't think Christians and Jews believe in the same God as that of Muslims. I don't really know much about Allah, but from what I do know...he seems sort of an 'impersonal' god.

But essentially it's the same, all those religions are monotheistic, they really aren't that different.

Muslims pray directly to Allah whereas Christians use Jesus to talk to God, my friend who's Muslim told me that.

But essentially, all those religions teach about love and forgiveness and all the rest of it.

But essentially it's the same, all those religions are monotheistic, they really aren't that different.

Muslims pray directly to Allah whereas Christians use Jesus to talk to God, my friend who's Muslim told me that.

But essentially, all those religions teach about love and forgiveness and all the rest of it.

technically they all believe in the same god... but... on the other hand God didn't make the muslim and christian religion... he could have only made one or the other. the muslims believe Jesus is just a prophet

^Mmm, so you really believe that those who don't believe Christ was the son of God (Jews, Muslisms, rest of the world...etc) aren't right and possibly are going to hell for it?

technically they all believe in the same god... but... on the other hand God didn't make the muslim and christian religion... he could have only made one or the other. the muslims believe Jesus is just a prophet

 

 

God did not 'make' any of the religions, Christianity is an off-shoot of Judaism anyway. Religion itself is wholly a 'man-made' concept.

^Mmm' date=' so you really believe that those who don't believe Christ was the son of God (Jews, Muslisms, rest of the world...etc) aren't right and possibly are going to hell for it?[/quote']

 

That's why I have a problem with "religion" in general.

It's a bit like somebody announcing that Coldplay is a religion and saying if you don't listen to them every day you'll face eternal damnation!!

:thinking: Hang on a minute - what if it's true??:rolleyes:

^Mmm' date=' so you really believe that those who don't believe Christ was the son of God (Jews, Muslisms, rest of the world...etc) aren't right and possibly are going to hell for it?[/quote']

 

 

Well.....Muslims have Mohammed for that...and the Jewish people have...Christ for that!And how could Muslims go to hell?Who did ever say that THEY should believe Jesus was the son of God?Nobody...because it is a totally different Religion....they have Allah and Mohammed and so on....

and believ in other things than we do.....so you can't take Muslims as an example!:)

Well.....Muslims have Mohammed for that...and the Jewish people have...Christ for that!And how could Muslims go to hell?Who did ever say that THEY should believe Jesus was the son of God?Nobody...because it is a totally different Religion....they have Allah and Mohammed and so on....

and believ in other things than we do.....so you can't take Muslims as an example!:)

 

You're missing the point.

Most (if not all) of these religions state that it's "their way or the hell way", i.e. anyone who doesn't adhere to their way of thinking is doomed.

Therefore, who do you know who to believe (if anyone).

It all seems to be a bit of a lottery.

But I don't think this is the intention of Religion...and I don't think that people think about it like that....maybe they say this in their religion (believing Christians to non- believing Christians...) but not for example Christians to Muslims....because they should know that these are two different pair of shoes....nah I don't know how to express what I mean...

edit: Ok....I read this statement by Charlie that they are monotheistic.....this is true....we learned that...so I actually don't get the whole point of this....

But I don't think this is the intention of Religion...and I don't think that people think about it like that....maybe they say this in their religion (believing Christians to non- believing Christians...) but not for example Christians to Muslims....because they should know that these are two different pair of shoes....nah I don't know how to express what I mean...

 

Islamic fundamentalists and devout Christians (plus believers of numerous other faiths) think the same way - that the "others" have got it wrong. That's one of the main reasons there's so much conflict in the world.

Far too much religious bigotry and not enough tolerance.

 

Of the "main" faiths, the Buddhists command the most respect, because they don't dismiss other religions and they don't dictate to people. Most of what Buddhism appears to be about is down to advice and common-sense.

I'm not a Buddhist, but I respect the faith because it doesn't talk "down" to people.:cool:

Oh yeah now I get it...

But I think this is not the fault of Religion itself....I think it is more the fault of the people who say that....because in religious case it is not true...nowadays....this is not the intention....

we had this in our religious education lessons....about violence and Religion....that there far too many conflicts in the world because of this...it's sad somehow....people take a step back from religion.....nowadays religion is seen far too negative imo.....people usually see the bad things about it and do not even bother about getting more information about it or about seeing anything positive in it.....especially young people...that's a shame...I mean of course there happened bad bad things in the past....but times have changed....I think they need to start again...to take the basis of Religion and make a new start of it.especially the priests....they are too consevative nowadays...many of them....they shopuld change that.....times have changed and so should church do aswell.....but this is not really possible...I see this in my community here.....the priests are really easy-going....and offer several things to youth people...that they can take part in celebrations and so on...but they do not take these offers...because there is a far too bad light on Religion and especially church....

I won't say now that I'm somebody who goes to church every sunday and stuff....but I think in general it is sad that many people have such an opinion about it....because for me it is basically a good thing!

Everything has the potential to be good until it becomes corrupted or misinterpreted.

technically they all believe in the same god... but... on the other hand God didn't make the muslim and christian religion... he could have only made one or the other. the muslims believe Jesus is just a prophet

 

 

then again...Jesus (when he came to this earth as man) said that there would be many men that would try to be a prophet in the same way he was ... trying to make people believe that they are speaking for God...that is what Mohammed did.

But essentially it's the same, all those religions are monotheistic, they really aren't that different.

Muslims pray directly to Allah whereas Christians use Jesus to talk to God, my friend who's Muslim told me that.

But essentially, all those religions teach about love and forgiveness and all the rest of it.

 

 

well ... christians know that when they pray, they "should" use Jesus as a medium...but essentially, even if Jesus wasn't the medium...then the prayers would still be heard by God.

 

I don't know how many people here believe that Jesus and God are the same people or vice versa ...but in reading these christian beliefs... it makes points of view easier to understand.

 

 

yes...muslims and christians share many things in common. but the religions are so different. Like most christians believe that in heaven, they will be able to meet up with deceased relatives. Muslims believe this too... but they also think they will receive a harem (group of beautiful women waiting on their every whim) and same for women (but with less emphasis). This goes beyond christian belief.

the whole forgivness thing "and all the rest of it" <<< many religions have those deeds included.

 

THere is so much more to it than that. There are HUGE differences and it would not be fair to group any religions as conglomerates just because they have a few things in common. That is like saying that all catholic branches are the same...when in reality ...they are different just because they are branches.

It makes a HUGE statement to group off from a large religion because if you are catholic you can't just "branch" off...I mean, things change like that.

 

Like Henry VIII ... he started his own branch of Catholicism because he wanted to leave his wives and remarry as easily as he pleased. And being a part of his church didn't allow him that so he branched off..right?

When he did this, he followers were allowed that freedom (and many others as instated by himself) and it just...changed origional catholic beliefs ...

 

once one branch grows, then comes another and another and no one can say that a religion did not just change in a big way...

Church of England is like a very liberal version of Catholicism to me.

...I find all the new conspiracies arising due to the DaVinci Code success pretty interesting. There's all these new gospels being discovered and examined that make wholely different points than what the original gospels preached. Like, the Gospels that are taught as "fact" say that Judas was a traitor, a horrible person, blah blah. But now the Gospel of Judas says that Jesus TOLD Judas to betray him, he wanted to be sacrificed. Now, that's really interesting because apparently hundreds of centuries ago a very important guy in the Church (I don't know what "rank" he was, he was higher than a priest and bishop, but not the pope? Or maybe he was?), well this guy said that this was NOT true and it was "lies". Why should we believe him? Because something had come out of the woodwork preaching something different from the "truth".

 

What IS the truth then?? And why do/did they want to write Judas off so quickly?? WHO is the person determining what the truth is?...

 

 

the gospels found in the Bible were written while eye witnesses were still around. if the writers were making stuff up, there would be plenty of people to quench their claims. why? because they experienced the said events and would know where false claims came in.

 

the gospels found in the Bible were seen as authoratative and embraced.

 

these other "gospels" were written long after the eye witnesses were dead. for instance, the gospel according to saint thomas was written 100 years after Thomas' death... so they are not his words. these gospels are people bringing in their own ideas... trying to put their words and ideas in someone else's mouth.

 

history itself disproves the davinci claims.

 

Just because it's been around for so long' date=' people believe it?[/quote']

 

if history backs up and supports the claims... is it worth look into?

 

technically they all believe in the same god... but... on the other hand God didn't make the muslim and christian religion... he could have only made one or the other. the muslims believe Jesus is just a prophet

 

actually, they aren't the same god at all.

 

look at the characteristics describing each god and you will find they are extremely different.

the gospels found in the Bible were written while eye witnesses were still around. if the writers were making stuff up, there would be plenty of people to quench their claims. why? because they experienced the said events and would know where false claims came in.

 

the gospels found in the Bible were seen as authoratative and embraced.

 

these other "gospels" were written long after the eye witnesses were dead. for instance, the gospel according to saint thomas was written 100 years after Thomas' death... so they are not his words. these gospels are people bringing in their own ideas... trying to put their words and ideas in someone else's mouth.

 

history itself disproves the davinci claims.

 

 

 

if history backs up and supports the claims... is it worth look into?

 

 

 

actually, they aren't the same god at all.

 

look at the characteristics describing each god and you will find they are extremely different.

 

 

All of this is very true. And very well put. Totally agreed!