why always when there's a debate like that on the board the main problem is that people simply don't know what the h**l are they talking about?

 

What's worse is that some people don't seem to be able to debate an issue without getting aggressive and making ludicrous accusations which have nothing to do with the topic itself.;)

What's worse is that some people don't seem to be able to debate an issue without getting aggressive and making ludicrous accusations which have nothing to do with the topic itself.;)

:rolleyes:

what's worst is when some people think they are always right, that's even worst ;)

and most what i've seen in that thread since yesterday, was simply spam and not a serious debate.

Good point. And that's why I've been saying all along the what might be deemed acceptable in one country might not be seen that way in another. That's just the way it is.

 

Yes, including secular countries. For some people, religion and beliefs isn't something you can just turn on and off. Like, what if there was a country that decided to ban all forms of clothing? You probably wouldn't mind if you're okay with showing your body to the public, but if your body is something you prize as a part of you that is private, then you'd be outraged too, right?

 

And about ignoring the rules. Didn't you read the post about respect?

It just shows that you can't just allow people to wear exactly what they want. There have to be rules, whatever they might be, and you're never going to satisfy everyone.

That's the point.

 

Erm no this is about people's beliefs. I know you could argue the same about Nazis but I am sure you are perfectly aware why their beliefs and values not acceptable.

Erm no this is about people's beliefs. I know you could argue the same about Nazis but I am sure you are perfectly aware why their beliefs and values not acceptable.

 

You can't say that about nakedness though. That isn't actually harmful to anyone, and I personally wouldn't find it offensive.;)

:rolleyes:

what's worst is when some people think they are always right

 

Well that could be aimed at any number of people on here, depending on your viewpoint.;)

you are mixing things...

wear burqa is a manifestation of their beliefs, that is religion (muslim), is a different thing the fact that mostly arabic people (culture) wear burqa.

can't you distinguish things? :thinking:

 

why always when there's a debate like that on the board the main problem is that people simply don't know what the h**l are they talking about?

 

Look who's talking.

Yes, including secular countries. For some people, religion and beliefs isn't something you can just turn on and off. Like, what if there was a country that decided to ban all forms of clothing? You probably wouldn't mind if you're okay with showing your body to the public, but if your body is something you prize as a part of you that is private, then you'd be outraged too, right?

 

And about ignoring the rules. Didn't you read the post about respect?

 

You clearly don't understand. I'm just saying you have to accept the laws and rules of the land you are in, whether you like it or not.

There will always be things you don't agree with, but that's how it is.

And that's why I have said repeatedly that what might be considered acceptable in one country or part of the world might not be elsewhere.

Example: Short-sleeved shirt anywhere in Europe - no problem; in certain Islamic countries - offensive/unacceptable.

The difference is that I wouldn't go around saying that rule was an attack on my culture or beliefs, which is a ridiculous accusation used by those who can't accept a differing viewpoint.;)

You can't say that about nakedness though. That isn't actually harmful to anyone.;)

 

There is no religion which says people should walk around. Besides being naked and covering up your body really can't be compared.

Look who's talking.

 

The movie??:rolleyes:

Example:Short-sleeved shirt anywhere in Europe - no problem; in certain Islamic countries - offensive/unacceptable.

The difference is that I wouldn't go around saying that rule was an attack on my culture or beliefs, which is a stupid accusation.;)

 

Because it really isn't?

You clearly don't understand. I'm just saying you have to accept the laws and rules of the land you are in, whether you like it or not.

There will always be things you don't agree with, but that's how it is.

And that's why I have said repeatedly that what might be considered acceptable in one country or part of the world might not be elsewhere.

Example: Short-sleeved shirt anywhere in Europe - no problem; in certain Islamic countries - offensive/unacceptable.

The difference is that I wouldn't go around saying that rule was an attack on my culture or beliefs, which is a stupid accusation.;)

 

Yeah Mark, but the people ruling the countries should consider their people, too. And when it's about the burqa, I only hope that they'd try to understand those wearing them more, and not immediately say that it's like a prison for women who wear it. Yes, it is oppressive if forced, but it's also oppressive to ban it. So before you go around banning things, do look at it from another angle and try to understand.

There is no religion which says people should walk around. .

 

As I've said before, there easily could be, which is why you can't allow religion to be used as an excuse to ignore the laws of the land.

 

Besides being naked and covering up your body really can't be compared.

 

I disagree, because this is about what some people find acceptable and others don't.

Because it really isn't?

 

Neither is objecting to a piece of clothing.;)

Yeah Mark, but the people ruling the countries should consider their people, too. And when it's about the burqa, I only hope that they'd try to understand those wearing them more, and not immediately say that it's like a prison for women who wear it. Yes, it is oppressive if forced, but it's also oppressive to ban it. So before you go around banning things, do look at it from another angle and try to understand.

 

Then you have to agree it's also oppressive to ban short-sleeved shirts, shorts and bikinis.;)

If you don't, then that's a double standard IMO.

Then you have to agree it's also oppressive to ban short-sleeved shirts, shorts and bikinis.;)

If you don't, then that's a double standard IMO.

 

You don't understand.

 

I know perhaps some non-Muslims may find it ridiculous that we think about the afterlife so much, but for those who truly believe that the burqa is compulsory in Islam, not wearing one may affect what happens to them after they die. Now, I don't believe that'll happen, but there are those who do believe that, and I respect that.

 

 

Does it really hurt when you can't wear short-sleeved shirts, shorts and bikinis?

 

Does it spiritually affect you?

 

You know, there's a well-known saying in Islam that goes, 'There's no force in Islam.' While we cannot force our beliefs on you, we do expect some respect. And covering up is a sign of repect. I know it's the same with a lot of non-Muslim countries, too. ;)

You don't understand.

 

I know perhaps some non-Muslims may find it ridiculous that we think about the afterlife so much, but for those who truly believe that the burqa is compulsory in Islam, not wearing one may affect what happens to them after they die. Now, I don't believe that'll happen, but there are those who do believe that, and I respect that.

 

 

Does it really hurt when you can't wear short-sleeved shirts, shorts and bikinis?

 

In hot weather I find it uncomfortable to wear long-sleeved shirts and trousers, so it would annoy me to be forbidden to wear them, yes.

 

 

You know, there's a well-known saying in Islam that goes, 'There's no force in Islam.' While we cannot force our beliefs on you, we do expect some respect. And covering up is a sign of repect. I know it's the same with a lot of non-Muslim countries, too. ;)

 

And many people believe that uncovering your face would be a sign of respect in non-Muslim countries, so this should be observed too.

Respect works both ways.;)

 

Anyway, nothing's been banned as yet, it's only a debate.

In hot weather I find it uncomfortable to wear long-sleeved shirts and trousers, so it would annoy me to be forbidden to wear them, yes.

 

 

And many people believe that uncovering your face would be a sign of respect in non-Muslim countries, so this should be observed too.

Respect works both ways.;)

 

Anyway, nothing's been banned as yet, it's only a debate.

 

Uncomfortable, maybe, but would it affect you in the long run?

 

Your comparison there isn't really substantial... The disrespecting of one's religious beliefs is not the same as the disrespecting of one's desire to look at another's face. Seriously, would you ridicule someone who thinks they'd end up in hell if they showed you their face? Would you keep trying to get them to reveal themselves and humiliate them, just so you can have a look at their face?

 

Mark, are you even trying to understand why the ban isn't really necessary?

No more ludicrous than banning short-sleeved shirts and shorts in Islamic countries.:smug:

 

Got it in one mate. Your not allowed to be accepted as say a Christian in a Muslim country in the middle east, but you can be accepted as a Muslim in a Christian country?? Where's the constant??

Double standard.

I really think that the problem is the difference made between men and women in islamic religion...

I'm even afraid that many muslim women do really think that they're inferior to men :\ That's just what I find disgusting...

Uncomfortable, maybe, but would it affect you in the long run?

 

Your comparison there isn't really substantial... The disrespecting of one's religious beliefs is not the same as the disrespecting of one's desire to look at another's face. Seriously, would you ridicule someone who thinks they'd end up in hell if they showed you their face? Would you keep trying to get them to reveal themselves and humiliate them, just so you can have a look at their face?

 

Mark, are you even trying to understand why the ban isn't really necessary?

 

No, I'm trying to point out that any religion shouldn't be allowed to dictate to the laws of a land, whatever those laws might be, and whatever the reasons might be for making them.

You can believe whatever you like, but you can't expect another society/culture to change its ways just to accommodate those beliefs, or there would be no end to it.

The "Nudist" Religion could then come along and say they believed they would be eternally damned if they didn't walk around naked 24 hours a day.

And who knows what the Scientologists might demand!!:stunned:

Double standard.

 

It doesn't matter what the Muslim countries/Taliban/what-have-you might make their citizens do, as part of the free world it is a first-world country's responsibility to give freedom to people. D'you think the Muslim countries would be any better about their restrictive rules if we didn't set an example?? It's similar nuclear disarmament -- nobody's going to get rid of their nukes unless everyone else does to.

 

And about the Nazi/KKK uniform/nakedness point Mark has recycled about five times -- hell, I think people should be able to wear those uniforms, too. Good luck getting any services or jobs if you're walking down the street with a swastika on your biceps, but we have no reason to disallow this, especially because both the Nazi party and the Ku Klux Klan are virtually defunct now. And going around naked certainly won't hurt anybody, either, so that's just an awful argument.

 

This is clothing we're talking about. (Or lack thereof, I suppose.) It's not going to hurt anybody. It's only a matter of you deciding to force your personal tastes and beleifs down others' throats, or not. Last time I checked dominating people into accepting your ideas was a bad thing, but I suppose it's just a-OK if you're convinced your ideas are the right ones, or that's the way it would seem.

 

:shifty:

 

It's only a matter of you deciding to force your personal tastes and beleifs down others' throats.

 

 

Which is exactly what's happening with the total head covering IMO, otherwise they would just remove it voluntarily, and there wouldn't be any need to debate a possible ban in the first place.;)

Which is exactly what's happening with the total head covering IMO, otherwise they would just remove it voluntarily, and there wouldn't be any need to debate a possible ban in the first place.;)

 

Woah woah woah. No, it's definitely a choice to cover your face with something; it's not your choice if the government of your country of choice punishes you if you do so.

 

Ergo, by telling women not to wear a burqa you are forcing your choice upon them, ergo you are just as bad as anyone else who does this; you just think you aren't because you think you're right. But who are you to say what's right and what's not?