^well said Pai. Mark just doesn't understand other cultures or religions and wants everyone to conform to his way life. Sadly many are like that in the world.

 

Thanks, MrNick. I'm aware that a lot of people don't tolerate other people who aren't like them. That's why I had to say something here. I used to live in Manchester and I know what it's like to be part of the minority, to be judged for looking different. I had stones thrown at me when I was a kid, and the kids throwing those stones at me were like, 'Go back home, you chink!' And I'm not even Chinese. :rolleyes:

 

I understand that these days though, people are more tolerating and not so judgemental, that's why it kinda shocked me when some people on here said some somewhat nasty things.

Now it's obvious that you're missing the point.

Actually, her views regarding the burqa is the same as mine. It isn't compulsory in Isam. But the issue here is modesty. What one finds modest might not be to another person.

 

And what might be considered conventional or acceptable in one state or society might not be in another, which is precisely why there are different laws in different countries.;)

Who knows? There might actually be a country (and there are definitely some cultures in the Amazon, for example), where complete nakedness is considered to be "the norm".

Should these people be permitted to walk around the city completely naked too, then?

Sure, the Taliban had forced their women to cover up in burqas, but the Taliban do not reflect the entire Muslim world. Like I said, do NOT judge a religion based its people.

 

Us Muslim women who choose to cover up do so because we don't want to be judged on our looks, we don't want to become sexual objects.

i think that the Taliban thing is what make people think that's a bad thing, as we know they forced their woman to wear Burqa so we think that all women that wear burqa is because their man have forced them to do so. :thinking:

i know we shouldn't generalize like that, but Pai, people tend to generalize so easily.

 

That's a different thing then, i have nothing to object if that is why they wear (you don't want to be judged just by your looks as if you were an object), it at the end is like in Christianity nuns, they choose freely to wear the clothes they wear, and nobody force them, it don't degradate them.

 

Why do you listen to Coldplay if you don't like our culture?

said the clever rastafarian :rolleyes:

what does music have to do with people believes paul?

how can you be so judgamental?

if i listen to country music it means i like western times or what? :confused: or if i listen to Romantic musicians as Chopin means i am a depressive person? :confused:

^well said Pai. Mark just doesn't understand other cultures or religions and wants everyone to conform to his way of life. Sadly many are like that in the world.

 

Complete and utter drivel. The point is that people have to conform to the rules of the society they live in. That's why there are laws, whether you like it or not.;)

No more harrassing than ordering people not to show any flesh at all in some countries and banning women from certain events against their wishes. You can't have it all ways.

If you want people to be able to wear precisely what they want (or don't want), including going naked, then you have to allow that anywhere at any time.

Unfortunately that isn't workable.;)

 

Exactly, Mark. In SOME countries. And if you don't agree with these countries doing this, then why do you condone the banning of the burqa? It's a bit hypocritical, no?

 

I can understand why some Muslim countries ban revealing clothes. The thing about flesh-showing is that in Islam, it is considered wrong, too, for a man to ogle at a woman's body. Doing so is sinful, so when a foreign woman visits wearing revealing clothes, it is disresepectful as it's causing a man to sin. Like you wouldn't expect women to go to Church looking like prostitutes, would you? It's about respect.

^Nobody is judging a religion based on a minority of extremists.

You also have to accept that some people just don't find a total covering of the face acceptable or necessary, and can even find it "unnerving".

Plus as has been stated previously, you can't just allow people to do whatever they like in the name of any religion, as there would just be total anarchy (see example about the suggested "nudist" religion).

You also have to accept that there are some people on here who aren't convinced women want to totally cover their head of their own free will.

You can disagree with this, but you will have to accept it nevertheless.

In a completely free world, people would be able to wear whatever they liked (including nothing at all) irrespective of what offence it might cause, but things just don't work that way.

This subject is obviously a very emotive one, anyway, hence the closeness of the poll.;)

 

People are not forced to cover up if they live in Europe. Their family might want them to but its their own choice at the end of the day.

 

Pai said she that KNOWS people who chose to wear a burkha. I doubt you do. Nor do I but I can see that such a law would affect people a lot.

 

Your point about anarchy doesn't make sense at all. You are talking about CLOTHING. Women who wear a burkha don't do no harm to anyone. Also how often do you actually see women who wear them? I don't think I've ever seen anyone wearing one around Liverpool. I'm aware that you might see them more in certain areas of London or Birmingham but you are talking about a small minority.

 

 

said the clever rastafarian :rolleyes:

what does music have to do with people believes paul?

how can you be so judgamental?

if i listen to country music it means i like western times or what? :confused: or if i listen to Romantic musicians as Chopin means i am a depressive person? :confused:

 

I know Paul was being a bit facetious, but he's being no more judgmental than Pai.

You can't go around accusing people of being against a religion just because you don't find a piece of clothing acceptable. That's total nonsense.;)

People are not forced to cover up if they live in Europe. Their family might want them to but its their own choice at the end of the day.

 

Pai said she that KNOWS people who chose to wear a burkha. I doubt you do. Nor do I but I can see that such a law would affect people a lot.

 

Your point about anarchy doesn't make sense at all. You are talking about CLOTHING. Women who wear a burkha don't do no harm to anyone. Also how often do you actually see women who wear them? I don't think I've ever seen anyone wearing one around Liverpool. I'm aware that you might see them more in certain areas of London or Birmingham but you are talking about a small minority.

 

No, it actually makes complete sense as people are suggesting you should be totally free to dress how you please. This would therefore include Nazi uniforms, Ku Klux Klan hoods and total nakedness.

There are many people who would choose to walk around naked if they could (as they are naturists), but if they did they would get arrested.;)

i think that the Taliban thing is what make people think that's a bad thing, as we know they forced their woman to wear Burqa so we think that all women that wear burqa is because their man have forced them to do so. :thinking:

i know we shouldn't generalize like that, but Pai, people tend to generalize so easily.

 

That's a different thing then, i have nothing to object if that is why they wear (you don't want to be judged just by your looks as if you were an object), it at the end is like in Christianity nuns, they choose freely to wear the clothes they wear, and nobody force them, it don't degradate them.

 

 

said the clever rastafarian :rolleyes:

what does music have to do with people believes paul?

how can you be so judgamental?

if i listen to country music it means i like western times or what? :confused: or if i listen to Romantic musicians as Chopin means i am a depressive person? :confused:

 

I'm not judgamental. I'm just telling the truth.

 

Romantic and depressive? Makes no sense for me.

I know Paul was being a bit facetious, but he's being no more judgmental than Pai.

You can't go around accusing people of being against a religion just because you don't find a piece of clothing acceptable. That's total nonsense.;)

 

I'm sorry if I came off as judgemental but those comments about wife-beating Muslim men are what angered me as you generalised all Muslim men who are married to burqa-wearing women.

Exactly, Mark. In SOME countries. And if you don't agree with these countries doing this, then why do you condone the banning of the burqa? It's a bit hypocritical, no?

 

I can understand why some Muslim countries ban revealing clothes. The thing about flesh-showing is that in Islam, it is considered wrong, too, for a man to ogle at a woman's body. Doing so is sinful, so when a foreign woman visits wearing revealing clothes, it is disresepectful as it's causing a man to sin. Like you wouldn't expect women to go to Church looking like prostitutes, would you? It's about respect.

 

There's a total difference between visiting a holy place and just walking around the streets. You can't compare the two. I can quite understand why certain dresscodes might have to be observed in certain establishments.;)

I know Paul was being a bit facetious, but he's being no more judgmental than Pai.

You can't go around accusing people of being against a religion just because you don't find a piece of clothing acceptable. That's total nonsense.;)

she is not judgamental, she is talking about herself and her beliefs, can't you accept it when people think differently as you do? :thinking: ever heard about tolerance and respect mark?

 

Mark i judge for myself, i decided to wear a cross on my necklace since like 4 years ago, i would feel deeply offenced if anybody critizise it or ban me to wear it not knowing why i decided to wear it, if they decide to wear Burqa themselves, freely, nobody force them then is ok, i would dislike it if they are forced to do so.

 

there are many ways to manifestate our believes and ideals, as many as old Humanity is, and as there are many ways to believe as it depend on every single person, others can find some ceremonies as creepy, but we should be respectful with ourselves first, make our own decitions freely and be tolerant with every other human.

I'm sorry if I came off as judgemental but those comments about wife-beating Muslim men are what angered me as you generalised all Muslim men who are married to burqa-wearing women.

 

I don't think I was the one that actually used the term "wife-beating".;)

Mark, you didn't just compare the burkha to a Nazi uniform, did you?

 

The difference with those kind of uniforms is that they show that you belong to a organisation which clearly DOES harm to people.

she is not judgamental, she is talking about herself and her beliefs, can't you accept it when people think differently as you do? :thinking: ever heard about tolerance and respect mark?

 

 

That works both ways. You could say exactly the same about nudists.;)

i think that the Taliban thing is what make people think that's a bad thing, as we know they forced their woman to wear Burqa so we think that all women that wear burqa is because their man have forced them to do so. :thinking:

i know we shouldn't generalize like that, but Pai, people tend to generalize so easily.

 

That's a different thing then, i have nothing to object if that is why they wear (you don't want to be judged just by your looks as if you were an object), it at the end is like in Christianity nuns, they choose freely to wear the clothes they wear, and nobody force them, it don't degradate them.

 

 

said the clever rastafarian :rolleyes:

what does music have to do with people believes paul?

how can you be so judgamental?

if i listen to country music it means i like western times or what? :confused: or if i listen to Romantic musicians as Chopin means i am a depressive person? :confused:

 

Btw, i was talking about cultures not religions.

There's a total difference between visiting a holy place and just walking around the streets. You can't compare the two. I can quite understand why certain dresscodes might have to be observed in certain establishments.;)

 

But in Muslim states that follow Islamic laws, religion doesn't only apply in places deemed holy. Islam is a way of life, and it should be practiced no matter where you are.

Including secular countries?

Mark, you didn't just compare the burkha to a Nazi uniform, did you?

 

The difference with those kind of uniforms is that they show that you belong to a organisation which clearly DOES harm to people.

 

It just shows that you can't just allow people to wear exactly what they want. There have to be rules, whatever they might be, and you're never going to satisfy everyone.

That's the point.

I'm not judgamental. I'm just telling the truth.

 

Romantic and depressive? Makes no sense for me.

man read a bit...

chopin was a Romantic pianist (romantic era, not style as to be mellow and sweet) and he was a depressive person.

 

i can't stand it when people generalize about those things.

Including secular countries?

 

Good point. And that's why I've been saying all along the what might be deemed acceptable in one country might not be seen that way in another. That's just the way it is.

If I ever visit Saudi Arabia I know it will be unacceptable for me to wear a short-sleeved shirt or shorts or drink alcohol openly even if I don't agree with it and think the rules are absurd.

man read a bit...

chopin was a Romantic pianist (romantic era, not style as to be mellow and sweet) and he was a depressive person.

 

i can't stand it when people generalize about those things.

 

Believe me, you have no idea about who Chopin was.

 

*facepalm*

Btw, i was talking about cultures not religions.

you are mixing things...

wear burqa is a manifestation of their beliefs, that is religion (muslim), is a different thing the fact that mostly arabic people (culture) wear burqa.

can't you distinguish things? :thinking:

 

why always when there's a debate like that on the board the main problem is that people simply don't know what the h**l are they talking about?

But in Muslim states that follow Islamic laws, religion doesn't only apply in places deemed holy. Islam is a way of life, and it should be practiced no matter where you are.

 

Fair enough, but then from what you're saying, anyone who doesn't agree with that because they're from a different culture should be able to ignore those rules...............;)

It seems to me that some people are suggesting it's OK to impose "cultural" or "religious" laws in some countries, but not in others, which is just ridiculous.