then we should legalize marijuana.

Yes - and without reverting to personal attacks and making ludicrous accusations (as you-know-who does incessantly).

Anyway, Ahlem appreciated what was going on, and that's good enough for me.;)

 

Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

Amazing.

We should ban all women from wearing clothes.

We should ban all women from wearing clothes.

 

Oh god no.

There's nothing left to be discuss. Just live your life, and let your government decides. All that we should do is just remain silent, talk about Coldplay songs and go spamming in the lounge games.

 

Oh dear.

then we should legalize marijuana.

 

Well Rastafarians smoke it as part of their "religion", so................................... :rolleyes:

 

Not sure anyone forces them to smoke it, though.:P

Oh dear.

Why did you quote my post Cobaltie? :angry:

Why did you quote my post Cobaltie? :angry:

 

Because she had nothing better to do??:rolleyes:

That wasn't the impression I got from Ahlem. You'd be better off asking her.;)

sure i'll ask her. ;)

at least I know the google ads are working properly, they're advertising abaya / jilbab dresses!

But a nudist has no pressure on him ! He clearly follows his will ...

 

 

 

Thanks :P I'm trying to be tolerant and understand what the others mean, but I still have my point of view ;)

Sorry, but that's just this distinction between men and women which is wrong for me :\ Why would it be the woman who "belongs" ? :stunned:

But... look how many girls are drooling over men's muscles or other parts of the body !

And women are "the weak sex" only because since centuries they've been considered more and more like that ! I mean... look at animals, females are often dominating males !

For the problem of being raped, it's men again who are problematic... If they are not able to control themselves, it's quite degrading for them, they just don't act better than animals... :\

Hope you understand what I mean, even if we don't see things alike ;)

 

i respect your point of view :)

i think you need an expert in Islam to answer your questions, i don't want to say wrong things

 

i agree with you for "weak sex" but since the beginning women are considered like this,

 

For the problem of being raped, it's men again who are problematic... If they are not able to control themselves, it's quite degrading for them, they just don't act better than animals... :\

 

but i don't agree with you, well partly i mean cause the problem here is both,

 

that's true men have to control themselves, but you see even when a woman is totally covered up, it's easy for a man to imagine what's under :lol:, so they don't have to have a dirty mind, in this case only men are wrong, and no respectful to Islam

 

and to prevent it partly women have to be more discreet and avoid such problems with men, in everycase the woman have to be respectful to herself ( body, mind, behaviour), to Allah for her faith and being an example for Islam and to men to avoid problems

 

i think this is going very far, i mean i don't want to say something which is not Islam, cause i til have lots of things that i don't know about my religion, you have to understand me Perrine

Right. I'm a Muslim woman, so I'm going to say something and I hope that those of you who have argued against the burqa can please reconsider their prejudices and be a little bit more tolerating towards others. I haven't gone through every page in the thread yet, but some of your comments are really hurtful as they're degrading us Muslims.

 

Mark, thank you for showing us all how ignorant you really are. Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT judge a religion based on the people in that religion.

 

Yes, the burqa is not necessary, as Islam allows a woman's face to be shown, but modesty is also another issue here. What's modest to you may not be modest to other people, so why can't you accept it if a woman finds the showing of her face not modest? Weren't ankles once considered erotic to some men once upon a time in Europe? The slightest revealing of the ankle used to drive some men totally crazy, or so I've read... In some parts of the world, being naked around other people is considered normal, yet nudity is banned in other countries. See what I mean?

 

Forcing a woman to take off her burqa and reveal a part of her that she believes should be protected is a complete violation. It's like telling any other woman to show you her private parts. It's harrassment, that's what it is.

 

And no, these women aren't being beaten by their husbands. How dare you insult us women and Muslim men that way. Sure, the Taliban had forced their women to cover up in burqas, but the Taliban do not reflect the entire Muslim world. Like I said, do NOT judge a religion based its people.

 

Mark, some women find wearing the burqa liberating. It's a symbol of liberation against what some people (like Sarkozy, for example) are trying to turn us into. Why can't you accept that this world is made up of so many different people with different beliefs and opinions and colours? Do you really want us to be the same?

 

Us Muslim women who choose to cover up do so because we don't want to be judged on our looks, we don't want to become sexual objects. We don't want to walk about showing off our cleavage for some people to ogle at, or wear tight clothes to attract unwanted attention. Being a sexual object is oppressive too you know, and I'd rather have someone judge me on my brains, not my looks.

 

Not every culture is like yours, Mark, and you can't judge us because you don't understand us. I have friends who where the burqa, and they are intelligent individuals who aren't being ruled by anyone.

Why do you listen to Coldplay if you don't like our culture?

Who says I don't like your culture? :dozey:

 

Not every culture is like yours.

 

 

:confused:

I didn't say I dont like your culture. You've completely missed the point. I said not every culture is like yours, and you should accept that this world is made up of people with many different beliefs.

 

Us Muslim women who choose to cover up do so because we don't want to be judged on our looks, we don't want to become sexual objects. We don't want to walk about showing off our cleavage for some people to ogle at, or wear tight clothes to attract unwanted attention. Being a sexual object is oppressive too you know, and I'd rather have someone judge me on my brains, not my looks.

 

.

 

Oh, you feel sorry for British women....

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

 

I feel sorry for those who are being treated like sexual objects. I don't care what country they're in!

^Nobody is judging a religion based on a minority of extremists.

You also have to accept that some people just don't find a total covering of the face acceptable or necessary, and can even find it "unnerving".

Plus as has been stated previously, you can't just allow people to do whatever they like in the name of any religion, as there would just be total anarchy (see example about the suggested "nudist" religion).

You also have to accept that there are some people on here who aren't convinced women want to totally cover their head of their own free will.

You can disagree with this, but you will have to accept it nevertheless.

In a completely free world, people would be able to wear whatever they liked (including nothing at all) irrespective of what offence it might cause, but things just don't work that way.

This subject is obviously a very emotive one, anyway, hence the closeness of the poll.;)

Oh, you feel sorry for British women....

 

I feel sorry for ladettes.:P

Right. I'm a Muslim woman

 

Well so is Ahlem, but her views differ from yours. ;)

^Nobody is judging a religion based on a minority of extremists.

You also have to accept that some people just don't find a total covering of the face acceptable or necessary, and can even find it "unnerving".

Plus as has been stated previously, you can't just allow people to do whatever they like in the name of any religion, as there would just be total anarchy (see example about the suggested "nudist" religion).

You also have to accept that there are some people on here who aren't convinced women want to totally cover their head of their own free will.

You can disagree with this, but you will have to accept it nevertheless.

In a completely free world, people would be able to wear whatever they liked (including nothing at all) irrespective of what offence it might cause, but things just don't work that way.

This subject is obviously a very emotive one, anyway, hence the closeness of the poll.;)

 

But why can't some people find the total covering of the face acceptable or necessary? Why is it unnerving? Is it because of the prejudice you hold against people who do this? When you see someone doing this, you immediately link it to terorrism? In this case, it is not the burqa-wearing woman who's at fault, it's the person judging her.

 

I won't disagree that you're not convinced, but I do hope you can change your opinion because I know women who wear the burqa on their own free will and they are the most humble yet strong women I know. :)

 

The burqa shouldn't be banned, because, like I said before, banning it and telling a woman to take it off is just like telling any other woman to reveal to others her private bits. That's just harrassment.

Well so is Ahlem, but her views differ from yours. ;)

 

Actually, her views regarding the burqa is the same as mine. It isn't compulsory in Isam. But the issue here is modesty. What one finds modest might not be to another person.

^well said Pai. Mark just doesn't understand other cultures or religions and wants everyone to conform to his way of life. Sadly many are like that in the world.

But why can't some people find the total covering of the face acceptable or necessary? Why is it unnerving? Is it because of the prejudice you hold against people who do this? When you see someone doing this, you immediately link it to terorrism? In this case, it is not the burqa-wearing woman who's at fault, it's the person judging her.

 

I won't disagree that you're not convinced, but I do hope you can change your opinion because I know women who wear the burqa on their own free will and they are the most humble yet strong women I know. :)

 

The burqa shouldn't be banned, because, like I said before, banning it and telling a woman to take it off is just like telling any other woman to reveal to others her private bits. That's just harrassment.

 

No more harrassing than ordering people not to show any flesh at all in some countries and banning women from certain events against their wishes. You can't have it all ways.

If you want people to be able to wear precisely what they want (or don't want), including going naked, then you have to allow that anywhere at any time.

Unfortunately that isn't workable.;)