Sarkozy: Burkha is not welcome in France, 'it's a sign of subservience' for women

 

By Peter Allen

Last updated at 9:19 AM on 23rd June 2009

 

 

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President Nicolas Sarkozy has lashed out at the wearing of the Muslim burkha

 

 

President Sarkozy has risked the wrath of Muslims by backing demands for the burkha to be banned.

He declared that the full-body religious gown is a sign of the 'debasement' of women.

'In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity,' he said to extended applause in Versailles, at a joint session of France's two houses of parliament.

'The burkha is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement. It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic.'

The president was supporting a weekend call by dozens of French politicians for a parliamentary commission to study whether the burkha, which is growing in popularity in France, should be banned.

He laid out his support for a ban even before the panel has been approved - braving critics who fear the issue could stigmatise Muslims in France.

Remarkably, his comments came only hours before he was to host a state dinner with Sheik Hamad Bin Jassem Al Thani of Qatar.

Many women in the Gulf state wear Islamic head coverings in public - whether while shopping or driving cars.

France enacted a law in 2004 banning the Islamic headscarf and other conspicuous religious symbols from public schools, sparking fierce debate at home and abroad. France has Western Europe's largest Muslim population, an estimated 5million.

 

A woman wearing the niqab, a veil that exposes only a woman's eyes, walks in central Marseille

 

 

Last year, the country's highest court refused to grant French citizenship to a Moroccan woman who wears a burkha, on the grounds that her Muslim practices were incompatible with French gender equality and secularism laws.

 

Sarkozy's comments put him at odds with President Barack Obama who, in a speech in Cairo this month, said that the U.S. prized freedom of religion and declared: 'We are not going to tell people what to wear.'

The French leader told Mr Obama in Normandy on June 6 that French principles of equality meant people should not display religious affiliation in state institutions.

 

He added: 'It is not a problem that young girls may choose to wear a veil or a headscarf as long as they have actually chosen to do so, as opposed to this being imposed upon them, be it by their families or by their environment.'

If Sarkozy succeeds France will become the first and only country to ban the wearing of the burkha. It is already banned in schools.

In Holland, controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who was banned from entering Britain, tried to introduce a ban, calling the head-dress 'a medieval symbol, a symbol against women'.

 

But despite Parliament voting in favour, the government was challenged in the courts and it is yet to become law - a sign of the opposition Sarkozy could expect.

The issue is highly divisive even within the French government.

The junior minister for human rights, Rama Yade, said she was open to a ban if it is aimed at protecting women forced to wear the burkha.

But Immigration Minister Eric Besson said a ban would only 'create tensions'.

 

BAN THE BURKHA HERE IN BRITAIN

 

 

 

Faces obscured by a full veil

 

 

Wednesday June 24,2009

 

By Mark Reynolds

 

 

BRITAIN should stop women wearing the body-concealing burkha, both Muslims and non-Muslims said yesterday.

 

 

They were backing French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s call for Muslim women to be freed from being “prisoners behind a screen”.

Moderate Muslims in Britain supported the move here, pointing out that the burkha had no justification in Islamic teachings.

Ghaffar Hussain, of the anti-extremist think-tank Quilliam, said that while not in favour of an outright ban, there was nothing on religious grounds that justified women having to wear burkhas.

The think tank said that people should be allowed to wear what they wanted.

 

But the arguments for wearing burkhas were bogus.

Mr Hussain said: "There is nothing in the Koran that says you have to wear a burkha. It’s a cultural thing. To wear a burkha in modern Britain is not essential from any Islamic point of view.

Will Britain follow France?

 

“Also, wearing a burkha does limit a woman, restricting her in the jobs she can do.”

He blamed more conservative Muslims for misinterpreting aspects of the Koran, leaving women in the unwanted position of having to don the garments.

The burkha is traditionally a head-to-toe covering worn mainly in Afghanistan. The term is also commonly used to describe all-covering outfits that leave just a slit for the eyes.

In a poll for the Daily Express yesterday, 98 per cent of people said they agreed that Britain should ban the garment.

There are about 2.4 million Muslims in the UK, although it is not known how many women here wear the burkha.

“prisoners behind a screen”

Nicolas Sarkozy

 

 

 

Among those welcoming the call for it to be banned was Douglas Murray, director of the Centre for Social Cohesion.

Pointing out that using religion as an argument to keep the burkha was “completely bogus”

 

he said: “There is nothing in the Koran that justifies the covering of women in what amounts to a black sack.

“There are parts which speak of modesty but not this complete covering up. This idea that it is a religious requisite is only put forward by the extremists.”

He added that security had also to be taken into consideration.

 

 

“One of the failed London bombers wore a burkha to get away, so the charge by some that the security issue is academic is also not true,” Mr Murray said.

Other Muslim groups in the UK agreed with getting rid of the garments.

Hussein al-Alak, 28, whose group Iraq Solidarity UK represents 1,000 Iraqis in Britain, said: “The burkha has become a symbol of fundamentalism.

“The Koran merely states men and women should dress modestly but is not specific.

 

They were traditionally the garments of desert tribesmen to protect themselves against sandstorms but there is no practical reason for anyone to wear one in England.”

 

He added: “They are certainly divisive. I know many women who have been forced to wear them under hardline regimes and they despise them. They symbolise the suppression of womanhood.

“But I would not be in favour of a law banning them. That would be reducing the Government to the same level as an extremist who orders his wife to wear one.

“It could also push more people down the road of fundamentalism. I think a woman who wants to wear one should be allowed to – as long as they have made that decision of their own free will.

“Bizarrely, they are often favoured by women who were not born Muslim but have converted to the faith.”

Diana Nammi, of the Iranian and Kurdish Women’s Rights Organisation in London, said: “I fully support President Sarkozy. The burkha isolates women.”

This is not the first time restrictive Muslim clothing has been the centre of controversy. Three years ago, Justice Minister Jack Straw called on his Muslim constituents to stop veiling themselves.

The MP for Blackburn complained he was unable to understand them when they attended his surgeries and had to ask them to show their faces.

The call to ban the wearing of burkhas drew condemnation from within the Muslim world.

Lebanon’s most influential Shia cleric, Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, yesterday called on Mr Sarkozy to reconsider his remarks, saying the will of Muslim women who decide to cover their faces ought to be respected.

The burkha and headscarf have already caused controversy in many European countries. Italy outlawed the burkha in 2005 under anti-terror laws.

Turkey, a secular Muslim country, has banned headscarves in schools, universities and public offices.

Burkhas are outlawed in three Belgian towns, while seven out of Germany’s 16 states have banned headscarves.

Awww please not him :sick:

I think the restrictions of womens rights is absolutely disgusting.

I think the restrictions of womens rights is absolutely disgusting.

 

Which presumably means you agree with Sarkozy??:thinking:

Does anyone know why Muslims woman wear the Bukha?

It's just the black color that's throwing him. I think if it were in white, there wouldn't be a problem:

 

No you didn't ! :stunned:

 

Btw... It's a very complicated problem, it has to do with their religious beliefs, and some are really disgusting :sick:

They think that women have to hide their curves because it'd "excitate" men's lust :\

Does anyone know why Muslims woman wear the Bukha?

 

It deals with the idea of modesty. I am no expert on this but the idea of a women showing skin can lead men to temptation therefore if they are covered up then the temptation is not there.

 

Personally, he needs to leave it alone. If the women want to wear it then so be it. It is their belief and culture and I don't believe you can force people to change their beliefs and culture because you believe it's wrong and doesn't conform to your beliefs. I am not a fan of it but I do know women who do like it.

Oh.my.god.

So you believe that a lil part of skin can excite men then and you approve this ?

I am not a fan of it but I do know women who do like it.

 

Because they've been brainwashed or beaten into submission, no doubt.................... :dozey:

^ Thanks Mark ! :smug:

THAT is a clever opinion :rolleyes:

Anyway, if certain Islamic countries can force women to cover up whether they like it or not, why can't France decide whether to allow Burkhas or not??;)

^ Thanks Mark ! :smug:

THAT is a clever opinion :rolleyes:

 

Thanks. It's a serious issue, and therefore deserves to be taken seriously.;)

Oh.my.god.

So you believe that a lil part of skin can excite men then and you approve this ?

 

In my post I said I was not a fan of it but there are women who like to wear it. It is a comfortable garment.

 

I am not a judge of other people's culture and if they want to continue to wear then they should be able to wear it. Whose right is it to tell them that it's wrong because it does not fit into their beliefs and culture? So basically it is ok to tell people that if they want to live in their country then they must start dressing like them and so forth? Oh, hell no.

 

The reason why I know this is because I had to interview Muslim women for my paper and this topic came up.

 

BTW...can you honestly say that men do not get turned on when skin is shown? Depending on the amount of skin shown, men do get excited.

In my post I said I was not a fan of it but there are women who like to wear it. It is a comfortable garment.

 

I am not a judge of other people's culture and if they want to continue to wear then they should be able to wear it. Whose right is it to tell them that it's wrong because it does not fit into their beliefs and culture? So basically it is ok to tell people that if they want to live in their country then they must start dressing like them and so forth? Oh, hell no.

 

Then try telling that to the hardline Islamic countries that force foreign women to cover up even though it doesn't fit into their beliefs and culture. ;)

 

BTW...can you honestly say that men do not get turned on when skin is shown? Depending on the amount of skin shown, men do get excited.

 

Complete and utter bull. That's a bit like saying all men are rapists.:dozey:

Thanks Mark, you just explain my ideas !

 

I totally respect most of other people cultures, but some things are just not tolerable, you see, I just don't respect excision because it's someone else culture !

 

And why wouldn't it be the same for women ? Clever men can control themselves :dozey:

Although I agree that it's almost certainly derogatory towards women you can't ban them, that's ludicrous.

Although I agree that it's almost certainly derogatory towards women you can't ban them, that's ludicrous.

 

No more ludicrous than banning short-sleeved shirts and shorts in Islamic countries.:smug:

 

And why wouldn't it be the same for women ? Clever men can control themselves :dozey:

 

Exactly.;)

Complete and utter bull. That's a bit like saying all men are rapists.:dozey:

 

So, you're saying that you do not get a little bit excited when a woman who is showing skin? For example: a beautiful woman in a bikini does not get you a little excited? Wow. You must be the only man who is like that. Yeah, clever people can control themselves but some beliefs/traditions have been around for a long time and its hard to change them.

 

You should know that men in the Middle East (not all just like with woman) do cover up though they do not cover up their faces. It's called a thobe.

 

The point is....just because the way they dress does not conform to your customs/ beliefs, you have no right to tell them that they can not wear it. It's a cultural thing and if these women want to wear it, which many do, then they have the right to wear it. There are women who will tell you that they like the burqa and want to wear it and they'll also tell you that they would not wear Western clothes and that is their choice. Whether you believe that they are being forced or brainwashed into thinking that they need to wear the burqa or that they are being submissive is really stupid considering that women in the Western world have been brainwashed and forced into things that are not necessarly right. You could look at the history of the world to see that. Just because things have changed does not mean that its still not going on. Oh, men all over the world have been brainwashed too in case you want to know that.

 

Like I said, I may not like it or agree with it, but that is their culture and it's their right to wear what they want/confirms to their culture. It's not up to you to change it for them, it's up to them to change it and many don't want to.

 

Whatever, I am done with this topic.

Although I agree that it's almost certainly derogatory towards women you can't ban them, that's ludicrous.

 

Thank you! It's like banning people from wearing a chicken suit. I mean, burqas and chicken suits are basically on the same level of ridiculousne...

 

Oh wait, I forgot the whole religion thing.....

 

I don't understand this guy. Is he trying to look bold or something? Dude, if you want to get rid of burqas, make the Muslim religion reform itself. It's like putting a band-aid on a bleeding carotid or something. People should be able to wear burqas if they want. They should not be, as in many Islamic countries, forced to -- but those are two completely different things.

So, you're saying that you do not get a little bit excited when a woman who is showing skin? For example: a beautiful woman in a bikini does not get you a little excited? Wow. You must be the only man who is like that. Yeah, clever people can control themselves but some beliefs/traditions have been around for a long time and its hard to change them.

 

You should know that men in the Middle East (not all just like with woman) do cover up though they do not cover up their faces. It's called a thobe.

 

The point is....just because the way they dress does not conform to your customs/ beliefs, you have no right to tell them that they can not wear it. It's a cultural thing and if these women want to wear it, which many do, then they have the right to wear it. There are women who will tell you that they like the burqa and want to wear it and they'll also tell you that they would not wear Western clothes and that is their choice. Whether you believe that they are being forced or brainwashed into thinking that they need to wear the burqa or that they are being submissive is really stupid considering that women in the Western world have been brainwashed and forced into things that are not necessarly right. You could look at the history of the world to see that. Just because things have changed does not mean that its still not going on. Oh, men all over the world have been brainwashed too in case you want to know that.

 

Like I said, I may not like it or agree with it, but that is their culture and it's their right to wear what they want/confirms to their culture. It's not up to you to change it for them, it's up to them to change it and many don't want to.

 

In which case you can't in any way condone people being forced to cover up against their will in Islamic countries. If you do, then it's a double standard.;)

Thank you! It's like banning people from wearing a chicken suit. I mean, burqas and chicken suits are basically on the same level of ridiculousne...

 

 

As are shorts and short-sleeved shirts.:rolleyes:

In which case you can't in any way condone people being forced to cover up against their will in Islamic countries. If you do, then it's a double standard.

Mark, that point makes no sense. Really it doesn't.

Mark, that point makes no sense. Really it doesn't.

 

Yes it does. You're just contradicting yourself. If Islamic states have the right to ban shorts and short-sleeved shirts from the streets, France has every right to ban burqas if it wants to. End of story.:smug: