i am muslim and for me burkha is not a real sign of Islam, only exremist obliged it

i can't believe the fact to be in total dark like this, normally they have to show their faces, Mahomet ( SAAWS) said that women can show their face to be exposed to Allah as anyone else, but not the other parts, like showing hair is not allowed

 

but the fact to hide curves from men this is right and that's one of Islam's ideas, so they can hide their curves but not in that way, in whole black and with hidden faces, noo that's not Islam

 

I completely agree with you and thanks for your non-reactionary, sensible viewpoint.:cool:

You represent the vast majority of Muslims who are moderate and realise that extremists are tarnishing the Islamic faith with such archaic, anachronistic rules which belong in the Dark Ages and aren't even substantiated in the Koran.

If women want to cover their hair and hide their curves that's fine with me. Just don't hide the face as there's no justification for it whatsoever.;)

WTF soccer=a religion ? And why not Coldplay or waffles then ??

Please Nick stop this comparison with soccer, I feel like you don't have any idea of what Burqas represent ! As Ahlem said "only extresmists obliged it", I hope you see what this word means...

You say "they should have the freedom not too" but you see, that's just the problem ! And as I said a billion times, those who want are under pressure, that's a fact !

I didn't say I want to ban it damnnnn ! The mentalities have to change, not the law, that's all !

 

Ahlem, I know it's one of Islam's ideas, and I don't say at all that my opinions are the best, but why should them hiding their curves ? Then why shouldn't men hide their muscles ? Sorry I think I'm just a bit feminist :P

 

Maybe, but there are many non-Islamic women (and men) who prefer to show more or less depending on how they look, and that's perfectly fine. The difference is that the only ones who generally conceal their faces nearly always have something to hide, and that's why totally covering your face up (unless you're at a costume party or playing American football or something) has very negative associations.

It would be a bit like wearing a balaclava in very hot weather. Completely ludicrous and unnecessary, and therefore unacceptable.;)

Exactly. It's a bit like saying black people wanted to work as slaves all those years ago. His argument is ridiculous.:dozey:

 

Did you ACTUALLY just post this?

Mark I deem your existence unnecessary, I deem the fact that you post on this forum unnecessary, please ban yourself from living as it is not necessary.

^Nobody in their right mind cares what you have to say, as you are banned and shouldn't even be

able to post here any more.

I'm sure it won't be long before you shoot yourself in the foot again, though. It's inevitable.;)

I didn't shoot myself in the foot in the first place, in fact I think it's quite clear to any "right-minded" (to steal one of your terms) person that I was actually trying to get banned in the lead up to my actual banning.

 

This is all irrelevant anyway as the only person who has the whole "your opinion doesn't count because you were banned" attitude is you and luckily other people can see what a sad and pathetic man you really are.

^No. The only thing people are going to perceive from this is what an inciteful a*hole you are (which most people would have known anyway).;)

haha yes, that is defintely going to be the mass response, very perceptive of you Mark aka "Voice of the People"

 

Ahlem, I know it's one of Islam's ideas, and I don't say at all that my opinions are the best, but why should them hiding their curves ? Then why shouldn't men hide their muscles ? Sorry I think I'm just a bit feminist :P

 

don't worry i wasn't aiming at you, but i talked in general ;)

ohh the answer of your question is so looong, your questions are so good :lol:

but normally in Islam women are obliged to be strict with men, they don't have to be an attraction for them til get married, even when a woman is married she's not allowed to catch men attention, she has to be the most discreet as she already "belongs" to someone else :lol:

hiding their curves means prevent pervert men thoughts, be respectful to themself (women) and be respectful to Allah of course

 

why not men, this is a so hard question :confused:

maybe cause women are the weak sex, as anyone say, it's not men cause when a woman is wearing something sexy or a bit extravagant, even with normal clothes and she catches a insane man attention well somethings bad could happen to her, and you know what it means

or a man is normally able to deffend himself from a woman

i hope you see what i mean

 

but honestly your question is so hard and logical :confused:

 

I completely agree with you and thanks for your non-reactionary, sensible viewpoint.:cool:

You represent the vast majority of Muslims who are moderate and realise that extremists are tarnishing the Islamic faith with such archaic, anachronistic rules which belong in the Dark Ages and aren't even substantiated in the Koran.

If women want to cover their hair and hide their curves that's fine with me. Just don't hide the face as there's no justification for it whatsoever.;)

sure i understand ;)

but some poeple call this modern Muslim, which i hate it :dozey:

cause it's not true

i don't want them to use Islam in that way and say that it's already written the Koran, it's wrong,

don't worry i wasn't aiming at you, but i talked in general ;)

ohh the answer of your question is so looong, your questions are so good :lol:

but normally in Islam women are obliged to be strict with men, they don't have to be an attraction for them til get married, even when a woman is married she's not allowed to catch men attention, she has to be the most discreet as she already "belongs" to someone else :lol:

hiding their curves means prevent pervert men thoughts, be respectful to themself (women) and be respectful to Allah of course

 

why not men, this is a so hard question :confused:

maybe cause women are the weak sex, as anyone say, it's not men cause when a woman is wearing something sexy or a bit extravagant, even with normal clothes and she catches a insane man attention well somethings bad could happen to her, and you know what it means

or a man is normally able to deffend himself from a woman

i hope you see what i mean

 

but honestly your question is so hard and logical :confused:

 

 

sure i understand ;)

but some poeple call this modern Muslim, which i hate it :dozey:

cause it's not true

i don't want them to use Islam in that way and say that it's already written the Koran, it's wrong,

 

Fine. But you agree (as a Muslim) that objecting to the burkha is in no way an attack on the Islamic faith? There is somebody lurking around this thread who needs to be enlightened with regard to this. Thanks!;)

 

why not men, this is a so hard question :confused:

maybe cause women are the weak sex, as anyone say, it's not men cause when a woman is wearing something sexy or a bit extravagant, even with normal clothes and she catches a insane man attention well somethings bad could happen to her, and you know what it means

or a man is normally able to deffend himself from a woman

i hope you see what i mean

 

 

Are you sure?

 

http://hellenic-reporter.blogspot.com/2007/02/rape-in-arab-world.html

Fine. But you agree (as a Muslim) that objecting to the burkha is in no way an attack on the Islamic faith? There is somebody lurking around this thread who needs to be enlightened with regard to this. Thanks!;)

 

well i agree the fact to ban hiding faces, but burkhas without hiding faces is not a big problem as we're in a democratic country and everyone can wear what he/she wants

but just i don't agree when they say that burkha like these is an Islam law

that's wrong

well i agree the fact to ban hiding faces, but burkhas without hiding faces is not a big problem as we're in a democratic country and everyone can wear what he/she wants

 

OK. Then we're in agreement. Maybe the thread title is misleading.

 

but just i don't agree when they say that burkha like these is an Islam law

that's wrong

 

Definitely.;)

Are you sure?

 

http://hellenic-reporter.blogspot.com/2007/02/rape-in-arab-world.html

 

ohh how strange now you want to talk to me

OK. Then we're in agreement. Maybe the thread title is misleading.

 

 

 

Definitely.;)

 

everything is ok now :)

 

well if i wasn't clear i agree with this kind of burkhas

 

everything is ok now :)

 

well if i wasn't clear i agree with this kind of burkhas

 

 

That's not a problem, as you can see her face.;)

Fine. But you agree (as a Muslim) that objecting to the burkha is in no way an attack on the Islamic faith? There is somebody lurking around this thread who needs to be enlightened with regard to this. Thanks!;)

 

Are you directing this post to me? :dozey:

 

I didn't mean that the rule of burkha is written in Qur'an, but I was trying to clarify you with a quote from Qur'an that Islam asked women to cover some parts of their bodies. So it's not wrong if the ladies want to cover it with a burkha or anything if they're just willing to protect those parts or even their face. They have their own rights to wear burkhas or blankets etc, But yeah I agree if it might be difficult to them to face with the communities (Mark has said it's hard for them to find jobs etc). However, it's their own decision to wear it, so they have to take their own risk to answer people's curiousities. I agree if you want to ban it in schools, offices, and hospitals, but it's up to them if they wanna wear it in public. I only disagree if you would ban it 100%, specifically in public. I was just surprised when you say that women in burkhas are shocking. And you can't just call burkhas are blankets, and posting pictures of them getting ready in front of the camera etc. It's not funny, and just completely inappropriate.

 

 

And I was too late. :P

 

Good to know that everything is ok now.

Are you directing this post to me? :dozey:

 

No. You-know-who.;)

 

I didn't mean that the rule of burkha is written in Qur'an,

 

Well that's what it seemed like you were saying, and unfortunately that gave ammunition to you-know-who.;)

 

but I was trying to clarify you with a quote from Qur'an that Islam asked women to cover some parts of their bodies. So it's not wrong if the ladies want to cover it with a burkha or anything if they're just willing to protect those parts or even their face. They have their own rights to wear burkhas or blankets etc, But yeah I agree if it might be difficult to them to face with the communities (Mark has said it's hard for them to find jobs etc). However, it's their own decision to wear it, so they have to take their own risk to answer people's curiousities. I agree if you want to ban it in schools, offices, and hospitals, but it's up to them if they wanna wear it in public. I only disagree if you would ban it 100%, specifically in public.

 

Then we'll just have to disagree about the "total head-covering" part, which I (and some others in this thread) just can't accept. However, there is no reason why we can't just accept different viewpoints on this part.;)

 

I was just surprised when you say that women in burkhas are shocking.

 

I personally find totally-covered faces in public a bit unnerving as it is totally against what is considered "conventional" in European countries and is associated with people trying to conceal their identities. I'm sure you can at least understand this.

It would be the same if someone was wearing a stocking over their head or a balaclava on a warm day.;)

 

And you can't just call burkhas are blankets, and posting pictures of them getting ready in front of the camera etc.

 

Well I happen to think they look like blankets, and I think the photo is amusing as there is no point in photographing someone you can't identify, in my opinion.

 

 

It's not funny, and just completely inappropriate.

 

We'll have to disagree on this one, which shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

 

Good to know that everything is ok now.

Agreed. And I suggest that whatever the discussion in future, you-know-who is ignored as he is only ever out to make trouble.

Thanks!:D

Are you directing this post to me? :dozey:

 

I didn't mean that the rule of burkha is written in Qur'an, but I was trying to clarify you with a quote from Qur'an that Islam asked women to cover some parts of their bodies. So it's not wrong if the ladies want to cover it with a burkha or anything if they're just willing to protect those parts or even their face. They have their own rights to wear burkhas or blankets etc, But yeah I agree if it might be difficult to them to face with the communities (Mark has said it's hard for them to find jobs etc). However, it's their own decision to wear it, so they have to take their own risk to answer people's curiousities. I agree if you want to ban it in schools, offices, and hospitals, but it's up to them if they wanna wear it in public. I only disagree if you would ban it 100%, specifically in public. I was just surprised when you say that women in burkhas are shocking. And you can't just call burkhas are blankets, and posting pictures of them getting ready in front of the camera etc. It's not funny, and just completely inappropriate.

 

 

And I was too late. :P

 

Good to know that everything is ok now.

 

oh no, this is totally wrong, so by the way, nude persons are also shocking and those who are metal fans..etc

 

they're just like the others, and this is no way shocking

Alright Mark. We should just lock this thread to avoid any other confusions in future.

 

oh no, this is totally wrong, so by the way, nude persons are also shocking and those who are metal fans..etc

 

they're just like the others, and this is no way shocking

Yeah. I agree.

oh no, this is totally wrong, so by the way, nude persons are also shocking and those who are metal fans..etc

 

they're just like the others, and this is no way shocking

 

This point has now been clarified. Seeing a nude person in the street would be shocking for a lot of people too, that's true. That's why it's forbidden, although there are many nudists who feel this is wrong and that it is perfectly natural to walk around "clothes-less".

To summarise, you can never please everyone.;)

But a nudist has no pressure on him ! He clearly follows his will ...

 

don't worry i wasn't aiming at you, but i talked in general ;)

ohh the answer of your question is so looong, your questions are so good :lol:

but normally in Islam women are obliged to be strict with men, they don't have to be an attraction for them til get married, even when a woman is married she's not allowed to catch men attention, she has to be the most discreet as she already "belongs" to someone else :lol:

hiding their curves means prevent pervert men thoughts, be respectful to themself (women) and be respectful to Allah of course

 

why not men, this is a so hard question :confused:

maybe cause women are the weak sex, as anyone say, it's not men cause when a woman is wearing something sexy or a bit extravagant, even with normal clothes and she catches a insane man attention well somethings bad could happen to her, and you know what it means

or a man is normally able to deffend himself from a woman

i hope you see what i mean

 

but honestly your question is so hard and logical :confused:

 

Thanks :P I'm trying to be tolerant and understand what the others mean, but I still have my point of view ;)

Sorry, but that's just this distinction between men and women which is wrong for me :\ Why would it be the woman who "belongs" ? :stunned:

But... look how many girls are drooling over men's muscles or other parts of the body !

And women are "the weak sex" only because since centuries they've been considered more and more like that ! I mean... look at animals, females are often dominating males !

For the problem of being raped, it's men again who are problematic... If they are not able to control themselves, it's quite degrading for them, they just don't act better than animals... :\

Hope you understand what I mean, even if we don't see things alike ;)

But a nudist has no pressure on him ! He clearly follows his will ...

 

I know - but if there was a nudist religion, he might feel under pressure to walk around naked!!:P

 

 

 

Thanks :P I'm trying to be tolerant and understand what the others mean, but I still have my point of view ;)

Sorry, but that's just this distinction between men and women which is wrong for me :\ Why would it be the woman who "belongs" ? :stunned:

But... look how many girls are drooling over men's muscles or other parts of the body !

And women are "the weak sex" only because since centuries they've been considered more and more like that ! I mean... look at animals, females are often dominating males !

For the problem of being raped, it's men again who are problematic... If they are not able to control themselves, it's quite degrading for them, they just don't act better than animals... :\

Hope you understand what I mean, even if we don't see things alike ;)

 

Yes, I think it's offensive and sexist to suggest that men are incapable of "controlling themselves" in that way.

And yes, you're right. There are many men who are victims of domestic abuse nowadays, so women are just as capable of getting "out-of-control".

They can also easily "go too far" at male strip shows, for example. I've seen what can happen on TV, and it's pretty scary!!;)

In that case you must be a traitor to women everywhere by condoning them, which is very sad indeed.;)

 

I don't condone OR not condone the wearing of ANYTHING; I definitely don't condone, however, people being FORCED to wear things.

 

Certainly most women wearing burqas are being pressured to but keeping them from wearing burqas is NOT going to fix the problem of radical Islam or generally get anything done at all. It's only going to make people angrier; and probably mean the women who would normally be wearing them will only have it worse off anyway. What needs to be done is for the original problem of the radical religious nuts themselves being taken care of -- banning the burqa will not fix a THING and will only make the radicals hate us more. Way to fix the problem, Sarkozy.

Certainly most women wearing burqas are being pressured to but keeping them from wearing burqas is NOT going to fix the problem of radical Islam or generally get anything done at all. It's only going to make people angrier; and probably mean the women who would normally be wearing them will only have it worse off anyway. What needs to be done is for the original problem of the radical religious nuts themselves being taken care of -- banning the burqa will not fix a THING and will only make the radicals hate us more. Way to fix the problem, Sarkozy.

 

THIS.