Matter-Eater Lad Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 For a second I thought it was back in the Bush days...... http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/01/obama.afghanistan/index.html How's that "change" working out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Escapist Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Great news. Brings them up to 100,000... Australia has also pledged more troops. Just what they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Well, he didn't he promise to pull them out of Iraq? Iraq =/= Afghanistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howyousawtheworld Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Republicans eh! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyM218 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I think a lot of americans believe that the iraq and afghanistan issue are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_gloaming09 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 i agree with what obama said in that afganistan should've been the main focus. i find it rediculous how i get the impression that we would've won in afganistan until we took our eyes off the ball. i also find it funny how no one on facebook is complaining about the troop surge... yet when bush was in office they always complained about him... what a bunch of hypocrites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_gloaming09 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 oops...double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorrificAttack Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 i agree with what obama said in that afganistan should've been the main focus. i find it rediculous how i get the impression that we would've won in afganistan until we took our eyes off the ball. i also find it funny how no one on facebook is complaining about the troop surge... yet when bush was in office they always complained about him... what a bunch of hypocrites Wait...what? You just totally contradicted yourself there. You said yourself Afghanistan should have been the focus and not Iraq, that is happening now. Then you are bitching at people for complaining about the troops going to Iraq and not complaining about them going to Afghanistan... Also I don't think you can "win" in Afghanistan, it's not a fucking game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_gloaming09 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Wait...what? You just totally contradicted yourself there. You said yourself Afghanistan should have been the focus and not Iraq, that is happening now. Then you are bitching at people for complaining about the troops going to Iraq and not complaining about them going to Afghanistan... Also I don't think you can "win" in Afghanistan, it's not a fucking game. I should've been more specific... what i mean is that people would bitch about sending troops to iraq soley because bush was in office and he was a republican. now that obama is in office and he's a democrat people are keeping quiet about sending troops. I just find it contradictory that if you don't believe in sending troops then why not complain about them. I understand that it's not a game, and honestly i wish that these wars were over and done with already but they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I'll take the Howard Zinn approach on this, and say that I still think we should bomb them with presents. It worked for the Red Barron in 'Snoopy's Christmas Album', and at worst, it could do no harm. At best, someone might start to like us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickle Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 For a second I thought it was back in the Bush days...... http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/01/obama.afghanistan/index.html How's that "change" working out? Didn't Obama run on the promise that he wouldn't send anymore troops over? John Mccain even said straight out that we would need to send over more troops, once we're in, it's difficult to get out. Personally, I don't see a difference in where they're going, the fact is that they're going. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I wonder if it's the right decision. I think even Barack's probably wondering if it's the right decision! When one adviser says more troops are needed, and the other says we should pull out, I begin to wonder... Saving grace, or saving Afghanistan? To succeed at stabilizing the country, the corruption needs to be addressed, a better arrangement for regional control established, and how do you deal with Mullah Omar? -When radical controlling types use foreign troop's presence as a recruitment tool...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 I wonder if it's the right decision. I think even Barack's probably wondering if it's the right decision! When one adviser says more troops are needed, and the other says we should pull out, I begin to wonder... Saving grace, or saving Afghanistan? To succeed at stabilizing the country, the corruption needs to be addressed, a better arrangement for regional control established, and how do you deal with Mullah Omar? -When radical controlling types use foreign troop's presence as a recruitment tool...? It is not possible, every nation that has tried failed. They have to want it and they don't. You cannot force upon people what they don't want. We much learn the lesson of history and not make them again. Didn't Obama run on the promise that he wouldn't send anymore troops over? Yeah I think he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorrificAttack Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 To Iraq.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsu Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Haven't read thread apart from the original post. The change in government is that Obama would never have attacked Iraq illegally as Bush did along with his puppet Blair. Afghanistan is a totally different question as there was some justification. The troops are already embroiled, and the whole region could be further destabilised if the situation isn't made better before withdrawal. The fact that it probably never will be possible to reach a satisfactory point of stabilisation is of course terribly depressing. But, that's not to say they mustn't continue to do the very best to leave it (eventually) in as good shape as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 Afghanistan is like Vietnam, unwinnable thus we shouldn't waste any more lives or money. The best thing we can do for the people and our nation is leave and stop causing problems. Leave our empire behind and stop making enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsu Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Afghanistan is like Vietnam, unwinnable thus we shouldn't waste any more lives or money. The best thing we can do for the people and our nation is leave and stop causing problems. Leave our empire behind and stop making enemies. We're already deeply embroiled in Afghanistan. Agreed it will never be won, but the point is to leave when there will be least trouble caused in the future. Leave at the wrong point and the Taliban will be back there within five years and we'll be back to square one. At best, leave behind a corrupt government and oppressed people, but without any significant future international threat. It's lose-lose for the people of Afghanistan (has been since before even Reagan fucked it all up) but some losses are worse than others. We need to withdraw at a point where losses for all are least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Operation HopeNChange, COMMENCE! And nevermind that debt behind the curtain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Vietnam part II. :tongue: (At least this time there isn't a draft- for now.) We shouldn't even all be here now. If the US had done it's job rather than find every shortcut it could to get out and march off to Iraq, we wouldn't be here. Instead it abandoned us Canadians to look after and die in the worst parts of Afghanistan almost alone and without much of any international recognition for it. (Canada has the highest casualty rate of any country there.) It made bad deals with warlords hoping they would keep the peace which we're now paying for in corruption. And when we were really starting to hurt, when we were throwing everything we had at the newly abandoned part of Afghanistan, it punished us for having nothing left to give for Iraq. :bomb: Well, it's about freaking time. The sad thing is, if this had happened 5 years ago, it might have worked. Now the Taliban knows they can wear us all down and outlast us. Now all the corruption has had time to spread and fester. Now the price is being paid for all the bad lazy shortcuts that were taken before. This has to happen. If it didn't, the worst of the extremists would take over in a heartbeat and we really would have to worry about more of the attacks that started this all. Pity there's been so much whining about how there will be terrorism if we don't let the government impose crap on us. We're numbed to it now. But in this case it's real. It probably won't work, but until everyone throws everything they have there, we can't say we tried. Any other way and we would be admitting defeat outright before we even had really tried. But now there's an accelerated end date. All they have to do is go lay low in their caves for a couple of years until the surge is over and we've withdrawn. And then they can walk out of hiding and take over unopposed. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumbersGirl Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Space Cadet, you pretty much have it right on. That probably should have been the focus all along. I remember shortly after Bush sent troops to Iraq, my grandma said, "He's just using 9/11 as an excuse to get back at Saddam for trying to kill his daddy (Bush Sr.)." She was a genius. Plus, all the hoopla involved in trying to "convince" everyone that they had WMDs. Seriously, all of that 'proof' with satellite pictures and such could have been made by a 5-year old with access to satellite pics from the web of any overhead location and slapped some labels on it. For all we know, they could have been pictures of desert areas in the southwestern U.S. "Um yeah, sure, this building over here is a nuclear site, this truck over here is holding weapons, because that's the label we have on it." Whatever. When Obama made that announcement I thought, gosh, the people who nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize must have egg all over their faces right now. Woops. Since when does Peace = War?!? :freak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Perrine* Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I wouldn't go that far... Now that American troops are involved there, there's no way to quit the country within a few days, or even weeks Would just be a present for the Talibans who would take profit of the unsettled situation. I still wanna believe in Obama, I'm pretty sure he's not lying when saying the troops will start leaving the country from summer 2011... So, wait and see I guess :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colduser Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It is not possible, every nation that has tried failed. They have to want it and they don't. You cannot force upon people what they don't want. We much learn the lesson of history and not make them again. Yeah I think he did. Obama said in July of 2008 that he would send 1 or 2 brigades to Afghanistan if he won. "As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan," Obama said in an op-ed published Monday in The New York Times, a day before he plans a speech here on his vision for Iraq and Afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Afgan is an unwinable war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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