March 31, 201016 yr Belgium moves to become first European country to ban the burka By Mail Foreign Service Last updated at 8:08 PM on 31st March 2010 Comments (11) Add to My Stories Potential outlaw: Burka wearers could be jailed if they are caught in public Belgium is on the verge of becoming the first European nation to ban the burka. A parliamentary committee agreed yesterday to outlaw the wearing of face-covering veils in public. The full Parliament will vote later this month. Under the proposals, women could face a week in prison or a fine for wearing a veil in public. There are an estimated 650,000 Muslims in Belgium – 6 per cent of the population. The text of the new law does not specifically mention burkas but makes it illegal for anyone to wear clothing ‘that covers all or most of the face’ in any public place. Left-wing MP Denis Ducarme left no doubt the rules were targeting-Muslim extremists. He said after the vote by the home affairs committee: ‘This sends a very strong signal to radical Islamists.’ The French- speaking liberals who have proposed the law argue that an inability to identify people presents a security risk and that the veil is a ‘walking prison’ for women. Daniel Bacquelaine, the bill’s chief promoter, said the ban might also be used against potentially violent demonstrators who covered their faces. He estimated that only a few hundred women in Belgium wore facial veils, but said it was a rising trend. More... Brave Saudi housewife set to win Arabic X Factor after blistering attack on hardline Muslim clerics on live TVMuslim scholars issue fatwa... on jihad The MP said Belgium did not wish to follow the ‘bad examples’ of Britain and the Netherlands, where he said many Muslims lived in separate communities. The proposal is expected to become law as early as June as it has the support of all five parties in the coalition government. But opponents may appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. There have been debates over banning the burka in France, Switzerland and Italy. This week France’s highest administrative body said a full burka ban, which is supported by all political parties, could violate the French constitution and European law. Brussels has been linked to Islamic extremist terror operations a number of times since September 11. In 2003, 18 men were convicted of involvement in a terror cell with links to Al Qaeda. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1262545/Belgium-set-European-country-ban-burka.html#ixzz0jn7s2MjQ
March 31, 201016 yr I can't believe they are using the excuse that this will integrate Muslim women into society, when all it will do is keep them in their houses and following their religion. I saw about this earlier, a bit of sick came up but luckily I swallowed it. Every cloud...
April 2, 201016 yr Bravo!!! Some people need to accept that certain customs aren't just appropiate in other culture/countries. I heard the controversy started because a muslim teacher on a school tried to give her class using burka. That's just not the appropiate manner of having a class, at least not from the western point of view.
April 2, 201016 yr Author Bravo!!! Some people need to accept that certain customs aren't just appropiate in other culture/countries. Exactly.:cool:
April 2, 201016 yr Bravo!!! Some people need to accept that certain customs aren't just appropiate in other culture/countries. I heard the controversy started because a muslim teacher on a school tried to give her class using burka. That's just not the appropiate manner of having a class, at least not from the western point of view. Can you pull your head out of the sand for a minute so I can slap you?
April 2, 201016 yr If it's not appropriate attire, people will treat them like it's not appropriate attire. We don't need the government to create a second layer of consequence here. It's already a stupid wardrobe.
April 2, 201016 yr Author If it's not appropriate attire, people will treat them like it's not appropriate attire. We don't need the government to create a second layer of consequence here. It's already a stupid wardrobe. Well if they actually realised that and stopped wearing them, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.:dozey:
April 2, 201016 yr *totally ignores Reilly's comment* If it's not appropriate attire, people will treat them like it's not appropriate attire. We don't need the government to create a second layer of consequence here. It's already a stupid wardrobe. I believe the issue is not as simple as: "The goverment telling people how to do/think" as I've noticed is the focus of most of your posts in this section. The debate is mostly for what the burka stands for culturally and religiously speaking in the western world. I mean, we're in Belgium, 21st century and it's incredible all the freedoms, rights and standard of life people there have accomplished (yeah it's the first world!), and not only for the women but for people in general after thousands of years history. I know everyone is free to dress however they want to but I think there are certain limits that must be culturally respected. In the case of the burka you can obviously see how it can be pretty akward... I mean, the idea of talking to someone hidding their face. What then if your country is slowly getting invaded by this new "trend" of using burka? and then your work colleague uses it and then the teacher of your children uses it... Obviously many may feel some disconfort on this. I think it's okay in those cases to open such debate, and that the goverments tries to deliver about this for what it's better for their people. I'm not a religious person (neither against it) and neither a xenophobic one... I'm just giving my point on what I think it's about protecting those rights and freedoms we have in some parts of the world. if you go to certain Islamic countries and you're a woman you cannot use pants and you must use the burka. That's the law there... whether is logical or not, that's how it works for that people. Then I don't see any kind of deal when countries like Belgium propose to ban burka, because they don't want women hidding their faces and that's the normal thing for their people.
April 2, 201016 yr Author I believe the issue is not as simple as: "The goverment telling people how to do/think" as I've noticed is the focus of most of your posts in this section. The debate is mostly for what the burka stands for culturally and religiously speaking in the western world. I mean, we're in Belgium, 21st century and it's incredible all the freedoms, rights and standard of life people there have accomplished (yeah it's the first world!), and not only for the women but for people in general after thousands of years history. I know everyone is free to dress however they want to but I think there are certain limits that must be culturally respected. In the case of the burka you can obviously see how it can be pretty akward... I mean, the idea of talking to someone hidding their face. What then if your country is slowly getting invaded by this new "trend" of using burka? and then your work colleague uses it and then the teacher of your children uses it... Obviously many may feel some disconfort on this. I think it's okay in those cases to open such debate, and that the goverments tries to deliver about this for what it's better for their people. I'm not a religious person (neither against it) and neither a xenophobic one... I'm just giving my point on what I think it's about protecting those rights and freedoms we have in some parts of the world. Very well put. As I've been saying all along, this is very much a question of cultural inappropriateness and not religion or nationality. Nobody has a problem with turbans, head scarves, "rasta" hats or Jewish caps as they don't cover the face. In many Islamic countries it is considered "inappropriate" to wear short-sleeved shirts and shorts or show any "flesh" in general. This might be considered to be ludicrous in the West, but that's just the way it is.;)
April 2, 201016 yr Author if you go to certain Islamic countries and you're a woman you cannot use pants and you must use the burka. That's the law there... whether is logical or not, that's how it works for that people. Then I don't see any kind of deal when countries like Belgium propose to ban burka, because they don't want women hidding their faces and that's the normal thing for their people. Very true indeed.
April 2, 201016 yr While I agree with the ban I think is there are problems.In Montreal (as in other countries obviously) there's a large Hasidic Jewish community.At a young age women have to wear a wig, they always wear long dresses, tights and long sleeves (winter, summer etc), there is a lot of pressure on them to start a family at a very young age and are never or rarely allowed to talk non-Hasidic people.They lead a very tightly-controlled live in a cult-like community and women are accorded a lower place than in any other Jewish religious movement.So if people say part of the ban's goal is to integrate women or give them more freedoms, why are Hasidic Jewish traditions never addressed or questioned?
April 3, 201016 yr So Mark, Faust..what do you propose the thousands of Muslim women affected by this do? Stay in their houses all day and never go our in public? Maybe they should give up on their religions because someone else doesn't feel comfortable around it. Or perhaps we should just shoot them all and be done with the problem?
April 3, 201016 yr Author I've never heard about this before, and it definitely sounds very wrong indeed. Nobody should be forced to wear anything that sets them apart from others. However, as you pointed out, emancipation is only part of the ban's goal.;) While I agree with the ban I think is there are problems.In Montreal (as in other countries obviously) there's a large Hasidic Jewish community.At a young age women have to wear a wig, they always wear long dresses, tights and long sleeves (winter, summer etc), there is a lot of pressure on them to start a family at a very young age and are never or rarely allowed to talk non-Hasidic people.They lead a very tightly-controlled live in a cult-like community and women are accorded a lower place than in any other Jewish religious movement.So if people say part of the ban's goal is to integrate women or give them more freedoms, why are Hasidic Jewish traditions never addressed or questioned?
April 3, 201016 yr I don't know what to think of this anymore. I'm somewhat on both sides, I'm against religious attire like this at the same time I'm against the government telling you what to do.
April 3, 201016 yr So Mark, Faust..what do you propose the thousands of Muslim women affected by this do? Stay in their houses all day and never go our in public? Maybe they should give up on their religions because someone else doesn't feel comfortable around it. Or perhaps we should just shoot them all and be done with the problem? I don't think the matter is purely religious, I believe it's more on the field of how one interprets religion (culture). You're obviously aware that not all the women from the muslim world use burka, just as not every man in the muslim world thinks it's alright to kill others in the name of Allah. Culturally speaking burka underlines old doctrines that women should subjugate to men so it is against the gender equality we want to profess in the western world. :dozey:
April 3, 201016 yr Author Exactly. As I said, religion shouldn't be allowed to be used as an "excuse" to do whatever you like, anyway, otherwise there'd be no point in having any laws in the first place. :dozey: There isn't a nudist "religion", but one could quite easily be formed, and they could then argue they should be allowed to walk around everywhere totally naked (as they would like to do), which of course, would be ridiculous. ;) I don't think the matter is purely religious, I believe it's more on the field of how one interprets religion (culture). You're obviously aware that not all the women from the muslim world use burka, just as not every man in the muslim world thinks it's alright to kill others in the name of Allah. Culturally speaking burka underlines old doctrines that women should subjugate to men so it is against the gender equality we want to profess in the western world. :dozey:
April 4, 201016 yr Exactly. As I said, religion shouldn't be allowed to be used as an "excuse" to do whatever you like, anyway, otherwise there'd be no point in having any laws in the first place. :dozey: There isn't a nudist "religion", but one could quite easily be formed, and they could then argue they should be allowed to walk around everywhere totally naked (as they would like to do), which of course, would be ridiculous. ;) Agreed.
April 4, 201016 yr But there still is a lack of consistency on the part of the law as it seems that only Muslims are targeted by these laws and not other religion, beliefs, sects etc.
April 4, 201016 yr Author But there still is a lack of consistency on the part of the law as it seems that only Muslims are targeted by these laws and not other religion, beliefs, sects etc. The text of the new law does not specifically mention burkas but makes it illegal for anyone to wear clothing ‘that covers all or most of the face’ in any public place. Although I'm sure exceptions would be made for balaclavas in extremely cold weather, as they would then be for a practical purpose, and common sense would hopefully prevail. I'm pretty sure it doesn't get that cold in Belgium very often, though.;)
April 4, 201016 yr Although I'm sure exceptions would be made for balaclavas in extremely cold weather, as they would then be for a practical purpose, and common sense would hopefully prevail. Common sense?! You?! Fuck off.
Create an account or sign in to comment