Theism is simply believing in a God, one or more, so it's practically anything other then being Atheist, which isn't having any beliefs at all. I can't really remember whether Agnosticism counts as theist or not, which is the 'belief' that there is no way of knowing whether there is a God or not, but seeing as that looks at the possibility that there is a God I can see why some would consider it theist, as it's not Atheism, but on the other hand it isn't necessarily the belief that there is a God, just an open-mindedness to that idea.

:dizzy:

Theism is simply believing in a God, one or more, so it's practically anything other then being Atheist, which isn't having any beliefs at all. I can't really remember whether Agnosticism counts as theist or not, which is the 'belief' that there is no way of knowing whether there is a God or not, but seeing as that looks at the possibility that there is a God I can see why some would consider it theist, as it's not Atheism, but on the other hand it isn't necessarily the belief that there is a God, just an open-mindedness to that idea.

 

Someone help a brother out.

 

KONPRIKADET

What is this Konprikadet?

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?ix=seb&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=KONPRIKADET

 

Hmmm. That was quick.

you know if I'm excommunicated by the people and not God, it's not my problem.

I say openly fuking all religions, because they live in their little world and do well close that creates tensions, hatreds. and not have open mind into love in grace of God ect..

and if people want to speak in the name of God. well it is probably true but only for made war in religions .

What is this Konprikadet?

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?ix=seb&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=KONPRIKADET

 

Hmmm. That was quick.

 

complicated with derp spelling

Theism is simply believing in a God, one or more, so it's practically anything other then being Atheist, which isn't having any beliefs at all. I can't really remember whether Agnosticism counts as theist or not, which is the 'belief' that there is no way of knowing whether there is a God or not, but seeing as that looks at the possibility that there is a God I can see why some would consider it theist, as it's not Atheism, but on the other hand it isn't necessarily the belief that there is a God, just an open-mindedness to that idea.

 

Someone help a brother out.

 

The whole atheism/agnosticism is bullshit.

 

It's just a different answer to a different question.

 

Do you believe in god? No? Then you're an atheist.

 

Are you entirely positive that there is no God? No? Then you're agnostic.

 

You'll find most atheists answer no to both questions. Logically, I cannot ever be certain there is no God just in the same way I can never logically be certain there is no flying spaghetti monster.

 

In my experience, most agnostics I know are atheists who choose the term "agnostic" because it makes them sound a little more thoughtful.

 

Having said that, there is such a thing as agnostic theists. People who believe there probably is a God but aren't quite sure of what one and think we couldn't possibly know what one it truly is.

 

Me? I'm an atheist. But, like most atheists, I don't know for certain there is no God. I'm pretty sure there isn't, but I cannot logically say "THERE ISN'T!" just like I cannot logically say there are absolutely no ghosts or no fairies. You can never disprove something like Gods or fairies or gremlins.

 

However Christianity has been completely disproved in every single solid claim it has made. The only thing it has left today in 2012 is faith and vague, contradictory philosophy. And that's the part you can never "disprove".

what solid claims have all christians made

what solid claims have all christians made

 

Straight off the bat, you've presented a straw man.

 

I never said "all" Christians, I said Christianity as a whole. It's like saying "America invaded Iraq". I'm not saying all Americans went into Iraq, I'm saying the institution that is the USA has invaded Iraq. And yes, before you interject, Christianity was and still very much is an institution. So don't come at me with the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

 

In response to what claims Christianity has made that have been disproved:

 

- The Earth is six thousand years old. Objectively false.

 

- Humanity is on Earth because of the two original humans: Adam and Eve. Objectively false.

 

- An elderly man saved the fauna population of Earth by placing two of each animal on a hand made boat.

 

- The Dinosaurs existed along side mankind. Objectively false.

 

- The Sun goes around the Earth. Objectively false.

 

- Rubbing burnt pigeon ashes into wounds cleanses the wound. Objectively false.

 

I could really go on all day. You get the point. Christianity doesn't provide answers about anything truly tangible and global. It's stopped doing that for a long time.

 

Now I'm not saying that Christianity has been disproved. That's impossible to do. I'm just saying that all of the claims about reality Christianity and the Bible have made over the years have been completely and utterly wrong. There is no debate about it. The only thing Christianity has left in the tank is faith, philosophy and morality. Things that aren't tangible. Now there is nothing wrong with that on a personal level. That's great. But leave it out of science. And politics.

 

God's role has been diminished something chronic. He used to be responsible for every rain storm, for every grain of sand, for every birth, for every death. Now he is kind of this vague force that "works in mysterious ways" and can't possibly be understood. Well this isn't the same God the early Christians/Jews talked about.

 

It's evidently clear that the bible is the complete work of human imagination and ignorance. A huge chunk of bible comes from somewhere else. Most of it comes from the Byzantine religion that preceded it. All of the "facts" about the way the world works come from "facts" that were already believed to be true by the ancient people. The same is true for its opinion on morality. The same is true for its opinion on geography, physics and philosophy. Even if you look at the bible as an act of fiction - it's not a very unique one. Not many new ideas were being expressed in that book. It's just a very long rehashing of pre-existing morals that are painted against a backdrop of pre-existing folk tales that were modified. Yes, even the description of the actions of Jesus are eerily similar to actions of prophets that out date him by hundreds of years.

 

I'm also not saying that every single Christian believes all of the nonsense I just listed above. Most Christians these days probably don't. But that's my point - why would you take the ramblings of an ancient book seriously, but then ignore the majority of what it actually says?

 

Slightly off topic, but this picture explains my point of view: http://i.imgur.com/7GaCM.jpg .

Also Christians still think the Earth is flat.

Also Christians still think the Earth is flat.

 

If this is a jab at my post, you should actually read it. I never said Christians today believe any of the examples I gave.

If this is a jab at my post, you should actually read it. I never said Christians today believe any of the examples I gave.

 

It's not. I'm agnostic d00d.

 

I'm just trying to be funny but it never works

I'm just saying that you can't rightly use the whole of Christianity as a base for an argument. You can use individual denominations, maybe, but when you say "Christianity" you are saying "all Christians" have made/accepted these claims. Go ahead and criticize the YECs for abusing the writings of a book (speaking in terms of OT) that many Christians have accepted as myths because it makes sense, but saying "Christianity has made such and such claims" alienates the many Christians who have not.

 

I only take issue with the wording, but I know that you do not think that all Christians believe these things. I'm just aware of the fact that a lot of people do, and I'd appreciate it if care would be taken to help me help Christians look less insane in light of groups like WBC and other YECs. :|

It's not. I'm agnostic d00d.

 

I'm just trying to be funny but it never works

 

It's cool.

 

Are you an agnostic theist or are you agnostic in the sense that you don't know with 100% confidence there absolutely is no God but you don't believe in any?

 

If the latter, than I'd say you're an atheist. As I said earlier, most atheists (including myself) don't claim to be 100% sure there is no God. Because that is logically impossible to be sure of.

I don't like to say I'm atheist because I'm not an asshole about it. But yes, I'm an atheist.

 

I think "God" is higgs-boson. More particle-like. But it's not a conscious thing. While amazing that we're here, it's the result of a large-scale, insane chemical reaction. If there was a God that made me (s)he could have probably done better.

I don't like to say I'm atheist because I'm not an asshole about it. But yes, I'm an atheist..

 

It's worrying to me that you feel you don't want to be honest and accurate about your beliefs because you think doing so will make you an asshole.

 

Atheists can be a little smug at times, but I wouldn't call them assholes. At least we keep our morality out of the lives of others and don't subjugate millions all over the world.

 

Well, I guess the Soviets kinda did. But you get my point.

 

There is nothing to be ashamed of for making the laws of science a top priority.

I mean, I feel like there's so much more relevant stuff I can be talking about. I think being an atheist implies that you actively try to convince others that there is no God. It's simply my belief, which is no better than anyone else's.

I'm just saying that you can't rightly use the whole of Christianity as a base for an argument. You can use individual denominations, maybe, but when you say "Christianity" you are saying "all Christians" have made/accepted these claims.|

 

No, I'm not at all.

 

There is nothing wrong with the statement:

 

Americans like baseball.

 

So why is there something wrong with the statement:

 

Christianity is against abortion/homosexuality/whatever.

 

It's a generalisation based off the majority of Christian organisations/institutions. Everyone knows this. No one sees me write the above sentence and thinks "OH MY GOD ALL CHRISTIANS ARE EVIL!". It's just a figure of speech that is very common place. You don't need to fly in and try to nitpick about it.

 

Go ahead and criticize the YECs for abusing the writings of a book (speaking in terms of OT) that many Christians have accepted as myths because it makes sense, but saying "Christianity has made such and such claims" alienates the many Christians who have not.

 

I think you should be less concerned about feeling alienated by some random atheist on the internet, and more concerned what thousands of your brethren are doing under the same label you attach yourself too.

 

This is actually a huge confusion I have with Christians like you. You're the type who obviously have their head screwed on. I'm guessing you don't go around trying to fuck with other people's lives - but so many Christians do. I'd say that most Christian groups in the USA at the moment are actively harmful. Not all. Most.

 

Take it out on them. They are the dickheads trying to stop people in love being together. They are the dickheads who use God's name as an excuse to further their agenda.

 

I'm merely commenting on it. I think your perspective is off.

 

I completely acknowledge the fact that there are so many good people like yourself who are Christian and you view your religion as a personal thing and that's that. But so many others don't do this. You should be doing something about it. You shouldn't be separating yourself saying "Oh, they are just the silly ones!"

 

I only take issue with the wording, but I know that you do not think that all Christians believe these things. I'm just aware of the fact that a lot of people do, and I'd appreciate it if care would be taken to help me help Christians look less insane in light of groups like WBC and other YECs. :|

 

Trust me, you don't need to go as extreme as WBC to make criticisms against modern Christianity. 4 in 10 Americans believe in evolution. Yes, only 40% of Americans accept a scientific fact. This isn't some case of extremism where a small few are wrecking things for the majority.

 

The majority are the harmful ones. The very "normal" suburban middle aged mothers who potter around the house are the harmful ones. They are the ones who stop progress from taking place. They are the ones who prevent two happy people from loving each other. They are the ones who prevent women having autonomy over their bodies. They are the ones who spread xenophobia and deny the teaching of science in schools.

 

I don't think the problem is as minuscule as you are making it out to be. WBC is a group of lunatics who actually don't do much in the way of harm to the majority of people. I'm not that concerned with them. I'm more concerned with the millions of evil people in the USA who get passed off as totally normal.

 

I'm concerned with the millions of Americans who think voting in Rick Santorum is a good idea.

 

My beef is with them. I couldn't care less about WBC.

No, I'm not at all.

 

There is nothing wrong with the statement:

 

Americans like baseball.

 

So why is there something wrong with the statement:

 

Christianity is against abortion/homosexuality/whatever.

 

It's a generalisation based off the majority of Christian organisations/institutions.

 

There is a problem with that in the fact that it is a generalization. If you were to base an argument about Americans on "Americans like baseball", that manner of speech wouldn't be productive. Specific word choice is generally key in making a valid point.

 

I think you should be less concerned about feeling alienated by some random atheist on the internet, and more concerned what thousands of your brethren are doing under the same label you attach yourself too.

 

This is actually a huge confusion I have with Christians like you. You're the type who obviously have their head screwed on. I'm guessing you don't go around trying to fuck with other people's lives - but so many Christians do. I'd say that most Christian groups in the USA at the moment are actively harmful. Not all. Most.

 

Take it out on them. They are the dickheads trying to stop people in love being together. They are the dickheads who use God's name as an excuse to further their agenda.

 

I'm merely commenting on it. I think your perspective is off.

 

I completely acknowledge the fact that there are so many good people like yourself who are Christian and you view your religion as a personal thing and that's that. But so many others don't do this. You should be doing something about it. You shouldn't be separating yourself saying "Oh, they are just the silly ones!"

 

As a matter of fact, I am concerned about that, and the fact that I still have to brandish Jesus Christ as the example for Christians despite their own Christianity is why I am politely asking you be more careful. I'm not so much offended as I am trying to clear up misconceptions that a lot of non-denominational Christians (along with others) face simply because they believe in the same deity as another group under the Christian category. In some cases, I don't even know if you could call it the same deity, but I guess that's another discussion. It is not my personal alienation I have a problem with here; it's the fact that you have effectively pushed an entire group into one, narrow category, which is becoming more and more of a problem (I'm not crying out "WHITE STRAIGHT CHRISTIAN MALE OPRESSION" here...just making a note of a bit of a growing trend).

 

I would agree with you. The most publicized Christian groups in the USA are the ones that want to fuck up peoples' lives, and that is an issue that Christians that do not adhere to their principles are currently battling. A lot of us spend a lot of time trying to play meek and mild and honest and sweet Christian to hypocritical Christians (while trying to avoid being hypocritical ourselves). Jesus Christ would not make the news today, but Fred Phelps is unavoidable.

 

I'm glad you acknowledge that there are good Christians (though I could hardly call myself one, seeing as I do not have enough hours in a day to evangelize the principles of "good" Christians). I wholeheartedly believe that the best way to open others up to Jesus Christ is not through preaching, but practice, though occasionally, I will call someone out for being hypocritical, knowing that I myself have acted in particularly un-Christlike ways.

 

Trust me, you don't need to go as extreme as WBC to make criticisms against modern Christianity. 4 in 10 Americans believe in evolution. Yes, only 40% of Americans accept a scientific fact. This isn't some case of extremism where a small few are wrecking things for the majority.

 

The majority are the harmful ones. The very "normal" suburban middle aged mothers who potter around the house are the harmful ones. They are the ones who stop progress from taking place. They are the ones who prevent two happy people from loving each other. They are the ones who prevent women having autonomy over their bodies. They are the ones who spread xenophobia and deny the teaching of science in schools.

 

I don't think the problem is as minuscule as you are making it out to be. WBC is a group of lunatics who actually don't do much in the way of harm to the majority of people. I'm not that concerned with them. I'm more concerned with the millions of evil people in the USA who get passed off as totally normal.

 

I'm concerned with the millions of Americans who think voting in Rick Santorum is a good idea.

 

My beef is with them. I couldn't care less about WBC.

 

I haven't made any problems out to be minuscule. I wasn't asking you to ignore the fact that there are Christians who delay progress in social/political issues. I was asking for Christians who do not adhere to the young earth/non-evolutionary creation/whatever other theories to be respected as individuals.

 

My problem is in the fact that you lumped all Christians together, whether you meant to or not. No, I may not have answers about how to fix the problems caused by uneducated people other than by educating them, which doesn't happen quickly. Maybe individual churches can be blamed for the spread of biblical misinterpretation, or ignorance of Christian teachings, but the people following these doctrines are individuals as well, making individual decisions based on whatever evidence they feel they have.

The whole atheism/agnosticism is bullshit.

 

It's just a different answer to a different question.

 

Do you believe in god? No? Then you're an atheist.

 

Are you entirely positive that there is no God? No? Then you're agnostic.

 

You'll find most atheists answer no to both questions. Logically, I cannot ever be certain there is no God just in the same way I can never logically be certain there is no flying spaghetti monster.

 

In my experience, most agnostics I know are atheists who choose the term "agnostic" because it makes them sound a little more thoughtful.

 

Having said that, there is such a thing as agnostic theists. People who believe there probably is a God but aren't quite sure of what one and think we couldn't possibly know what one it truly is.

 

Me? I'm an atheist. But, like most atheists, I don't know for certain there is no God. I'm pretty sure there isn't, but I cannot logically say "THERE ISN'T!" just like I cannot logically say there are absolutely no ghosts or no fairies. You can never disprove something like Gods or fairies or gremlins.

 

However Christianity has been completely disproved in every single solid claim it has made. The only thing it has left today in 2012 is faith and vague, contradictory philosophy. And that's the part you can never "disprove".

 

The other side of the coin is that all/most Atheists are in actual fact Agnostics, kinda turns your point on it's head there.

 

Sorry but when it comes to tricky little things like the meaning of existence, I think specifics are pretty important, and whether or not most Atheists do not claim that they know there is definitely no God, "most" doesn't really cut it, there are some Atheists who believe that there is definitely no supreme being and that thought is unfathomable (Which is fair enough really), and then there are some people who are open minded to the idea that there may be an omnipotent lord, those are Agnostics, and I am one.

 

You're making it more complicated then it is, do you believe there's a possibility that fairies and goblins exist? Because I don't, however I do believe in the possibility of a deity. I think the term that describes Agnostics as believing the idea of an existence of God as "unknowable" is misleading, or at least not quite as accurately representative as other terms.

The other side of the coin is that all/most Atheists are in actual fact Agnostics, kinda turns your point on it's head there..

 

That was my point.

 

Weirdo.

Well then you illustrated it very poorly, at no point did you include the idea that you may also be called an 'Agnostic' by which now is your own admission, but labelled yourself as 'Atheist' and implied that being 'Agnostic' is simply a preference of pretentious people.

 

I edited my last post, and don't call me a weirdo for no reason you fucking moron.

I edited my last post, and don't call me a weirdo for no reason you fucking moron.

 

 

Yes that meme just dissolved you of accountability, congrats.

Sorry but when it comes to tricky little things like the meaning of existence, I think specifics are pretty important, and whether or not most Atheists do not claim that they know there is definitely no God, "most" doesn't really cut it

 

Why not?

 

I was simply saying most atheists I know do not claim there is definitely no God.

 

I was illustrating the point that agnosticism/atheism is a different answer to a different question.

 

I'm an agnostic in regards to one question and an atheist to another. Most people I know are. Brent is an example right in this thread.

 

Of course there are many others like you who don't fall into that category. But I do think most do fall into that category. That is my opinion and in my experience that has rung very true. Since this is a message board, I felt it okay to post my opinion.

 

You're making it more complicated then it is, do you believe there's a possibility that fairies and goblins exist?

 

Applying the rules of logic, you cannot be certain. So yes, technically there is a possibility of anything. We can't disprove Goblins, so I cannot logically say "There are no Goblins." I can certainly say "Knowing what we know about Goblins and the rules of the universe - it's ridiculous to believe there are Goblins".

 

And that's my position on God. I don't say "there is no god" but I do say "There isn't enough proof or reason to believe in any of the gods humanity has in place".

 

Because I don't, however I do believe in the possibility of a deity. I think the term that describes Agnostics as believing the idea of an existence of God as "unknowable" is misleading, or at least not quite as accurately representative as other terms.

 

Then you sound like an agnostic theist. Someone who isn't sure, who isn't religious, but does think that there could be a God out there.

 

I've already mentioned this.

 

I have absolutely no idea why you flipped the fuck out towards me.

Hi guys! what cha'lls talkin 'bout? :wacko: