Mark you just shouldn't be so steep ...

 

I just want to say that some comparisons which've been made with ordinary way of clothings are stupid.... If you wanna wear pink shorts it doesn't mean anything, but Burqa is associated with disgusting ideas about women, and that's why I'm against Burqa, for women's respect, but not for banning it because it's way too excessive !

It's not excessive, it's necessary.

Nope. I meant it as I said it, hence the inverted commas.:smug:

 

OH DEAR HE USED THE INVERTED COMMAS HOW SILLY OF ME TO NOT REALIZE THAT.

 

Mark, you are the most intolerant son-of-a-bitch I've met on this forum. I still can't beleive you continue to think burqas should be banned after all of the evidence as to why they SHOULD NOT be banned.

OH DEAR HE USED THE INVERTED COMMAS HOW SILLY OF ME TO NOT REALIZE THAT.

 

Mark, you are the most intolerant son-of-a-bitch I've met on this forum. I still can't beleive you continue to think burqas should be banned after all of the evidence as to why they SHOULD NOT be banned.

 

In that case you must be a traitor to women everywhere by condoning them, which is very sad indeed.;)

Mark you just shouldn't be so steep ...

 

I just want to say that some comparisons which've been made with ordinary way of clothings are stupid.... If you wanna wear pink shorts it doesn't mean anything, but Burqa is associated with disgusting ideas about women, and that's why I'm against Burqa, for women's respect

 

Which is exactly why nobody should condone them.;)

http://www.thelondonpaper.com/thelondonpaper/news/london/a-sexually-explicit-art-work-depicting-a-burkha-clad-woman-exposing-a-nipple-spark

 

No comment.

http://www.thelondonpaper.com/thelondonpaper/news/london/a-sexually-explicit-art-work-depicting-a-burkha-clad-woman-exposing-a-nipple-spark

 

No comment.

 

:laugh3:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/emmahartley/9646817/The_burkha_of_irony/

Anyway, if certain Islamic countries can force women to cover up whether they like it or not, why can't France decide whether to allow Burkhas or not??;)

 

I don't agree. That statement is against the "Declaration of the rights of man and of the citizen " itself, of which the French Republic is mother.

 

I am talking here about the freedom of religion. And France, a very developed country not only in economical terms but also in rights for its people shouldn't be compared with those certain Islamic countries you're talking about.

 

If a woman believes in wearing a Burkha. Should this affect anybody but herself? It is her decision. Her belief!

I don't agree. That statement is against the "Declaration of the rights of man and of the citizen " itself, of which the French Republic is mother.

 

I am talking here about the freedom of religion. And France, a very developed country not only in economical terms but also in rights for its people shouldn't be compared with those certain Islamic countries you're talking about.

 

If a woman believes in wearing a Burkha. Should this affect anybody but herself? It is her decision. Her belief!

 

Well therein lies the problem. It beggars belief that any independent, free-thinking woman would wear something like that of their own free-will, therefore the consensus is that they're being forced to wear it;)

Nope. You're completely missing the point. Burkhas are socially unacceptable in the western world, they serve no practical purpose whatsoever and they can be used to hide people's identities.

Therefore they should be banned, and if you read the reports on the first page, you'll see the vast majority of moderate Muslims support the idea too.

:smug:

 

And if you truly believe people should have total freedom to wear what they want, then it's clear you would also have no objection to people walking around in Nazi uniforms, and Ku Klux Klan hoods, or even completely naked......................... :rolleyes:

 

Many say your jokes are "socially unacceptable" can we ban you? Again its YOUR personal view that you are trying to force upon others.

 

At one point the "majority" wanted to keep a ban on black people from using white people restaurant's, does that make it moral? Are you personal views more valid then a women who wants to wear it? Do you have more right to their body then they do?

OH DEAR HE USED THE INVERTED COMMAS HOW SILLY OF ME TO NOT REALIZE THAT.

 

Mark, you are the most intolerant son-of-a-bitch I've met on this forum. I still can't beleive you continue to think burqas should be banned after all of the evidence as to why they SHOULD NOT be banned.

 

Sadly he's like many other people who want their personal opinions and beliefs to be law but would get mad if someone else's belief's were forced on them.

That's exactly the problem Nick... Do they really want to wear Burqas ?

There are so much pressure on them : family, religion, society, their husband.... How can you say it's a conscious and free choice ? :confused:

That's exactly the problem Nick... Do they really want to wear Burqas ?

There are so much pressure on them : family, religion, society, their husband.... How can you say it's a conscious and free choice ? :confused:

 

Exactly. It's a bit like saying black people wanted to work as slaves all those years ago. His argument is ridiculous.:dozey:

Many say your jokes are "socially unacceptable" can we ban you? Again its YOUR personal view that you are trying to force upon others.

 

At one point the "majority" wanted to keep a ban on black people from using white people restaurant's, does that make it moral? Are you personal views more valid then a women who wants to wear it? Do you have more right to their body then they do?

 

So do Nazis have the right to walk around the streets in SS uniforms? Do Ku Klux Klan members have the right to walk around wearing white hoods (whatever you might think of it) just because they want to?

Do people have the right to walk around the shops completely naked because they are naturists?

No.

 

Plus if you had your way, women would forbidden from having abortions at any time.

Isn't that an example of forcing your views on other people?

 

I'd say you've been totally PWNED.;)

ban ban ban.

Anyway, in essence it's really only the total head covering that's the problem. I suppose if people want to wear what looks like an oversized blanket over the rest of their body, then fine.;)

So do Nazis have the right to walk around the streets in SS uniforms? Do Ku Klux Klan members have the right to walk around wearing white hoods (whatever you might think of it) just because they want to?

Do people have the right to walk around the shops completely naked because they are naturists?

No.

 

Plus if you had your way, women would forbidden from having abortions at any time.

Isn't that an example of forcing your views on other people?

 

I'd say you've been totally PWNED.;)

 

Well this is a silly argument.

 

Of course people should be allowed to wear KKK cloaks and Nazi uniforms. But good luck finding a job! (Or making it a few blocks without getting the tar beaten out of you.)

 

And I'm sure shop owners would ban people from entering their stores naked, after all it's private property so they have a right to do that. Just like the jewelry shops banned people wearing burkas.

 

And you're as aware as I am that you can't ever "ban" abortions, because women will figure out a way to get them one way or another. Just like you can't "ban" murder - it'll happen, regardless of the laws on the books. It's a question of ethics, and Nick (and I) happen to think abortion is unethical.

Well this is a silly argument.

 

No it isn't. Nick was arguing that people should be able to wear anything they want, which is ludicrous.;)

 

Of course people should be allowed to wear KKK cloaks and Nazi uniforms. But good luck finding a job! (Or making it a few blocks without getting the tar beaten out of you.)

 

The fact is that in most countries Nazi uniforms are outlawed for obvious reasons.

Therefore it isn't possible for people to wear what they want.;)

 

And I'm sure shop owners would ban people from entering their stores naked, after all it's private property so they have a right to do that. Just like the jewelry shops banned people wearing burkas.

 

In which case it should be perfectly OK for shops (or any other establishment for that matter) to ban people wearing burkhas if that's their decision. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

And you're as aware as I am that you can't ever "ban" abortions, because women will figure out a way to get them one way or another.

 

Yes - backstreet abortions which are then unregulated and potentially unsafe.;)

 

 

Just like you can't "ban" murder - it'll happen, regardless of the laws on the books. It's a question of ethics, and Nick (and I) happen to think abortion is unethical.

 

Well I happen to believe that concealing your identity by completely covering your face is unethical (in the sense of conformity).;)

That's exactly the problem Nick... Do they really want to wear Burqas ?

There are so much pressure on them : family, religion, society, their husband.... How can you say it's a conscious and free choice ? :confused:

 

If they don't the Burqas are the least of their worries. I understand what you mean, but all the government can do is allow them and hope that the people wearing them do it out of their own free will. Just like you can't guarantee the kid playing soccer wants to or his dad is forcing him...should we ban soccer?

 

There are many who out of free will want to wear it for religious reasons, and let them. Its equally as wrong for a Muslim country to force a women to wear it as it is to ban a women who wants to wear it.

 

I just have a problem with people forcing their personal views upon others....people wanted to ban Harry Potter...I'm sure you'd thing that was ridiculous but to them it was not, what gives you or Mark wanting to ban the Burqa the right over banning Harry Potter for teaching kids evil magic? TV causes violence, many want it banned...where do you draw the line? Only with what you personally believe?

 

I'm not Muslim am I to want them banned for not conforming to my western ways?

No. Just no ! You can't compare soccer with Burqas common ! Do you really know why women wear Burqas ? Soccer is a sport, it has nothing to do with it !

And I've never told Burqas should be banned, so this argument doesn't work with me ;)

I totally agree, people shouldn't force other to agree with their opinions, but it's the same, we're talking about women freedom, and not Harry Potter ;)

 

I totally respect Muslim culture, but those extremist religious opinions are just disgusting, so it's not a western/easter problem anymore ;)

No. Just no ! You can't compare soccer with Burqas common ! Do you really know why women wear Burqas ? Soccer is a sport, it has nothing to do with it !

And I've never told Burqas should be banned, so this argument doesn't work with me ;)

I totally agree, people shouldn't force other to agree with their opinions, but it's the same, we're talking about women freedom, and not Harry Potter ;)

 

I totally respect Muslim culture, but those extremist religious opinions are just disgusting, so it's not a western/easter problem anymore ;)

 

But for some people soccer if life, a religion to them, I know of cases of kids being forced to play and play well by their parents and family....my point is no matter what it is their will always be something negative about it, someone forced or cohered to do it or wear it or have it.

 

And if women don't want to wear it they should have the freedom not too, but their are some who want to wear it and should be allowed. I simply say its not yours or my business what people decide to do with their bodies, all we can do is encourage freedom of Choice about burqas but not force people one way or the other.

 

Its just as wrong to keep someone from wearing it who wants to then forcing someone to wear who does not want to.

 

Besides Mark doesn't understand banning things, makes them more of a problem, makes people want it more and causes extremist. Look at any drug banned or book or so on and it becomes more popular and more of a problem AFTER being banned...thus its not the logical solution.

i am muslim and for me burkha is not a real sign of Islam, only exremist obliged it

i can't believe the fact to be in total dark like this, normally they have to show their faces, Mahomet ( SAAWS) said that women can show their face to be exposed to Allah as anyone else, but not the other parts, like showing hair is not allowed

 

but the fact to hide curves from men this is right and that's one of Islam's ideas, so they can hide their curves but not in that way, in whole black and with hidden faces, noo that's not Islam

WTF soccer=a religion ? And why not Coldplay or waffles then ??

Please Nick stop this comparison with soccer, I feel like you don't have any idea of what Burqas represent ! As Ahlem said "only extresmists obliged it", I hope you see what this word means...

You say "they should have the freedom not too" but you see, that's just the problem ! And as I said a billion times, those who want are under pressure, that's a fact !

I didn't say I want to ban it damnnnn ! The mentalities have to change, not the law, that's all !

 

Ahlem, I know it's one of Islam's ideas, and I don't say at all that my opinions are the best, but why should them hiding their curves ? Then why shouldn't men hide their muscles ? Sorry I think I'm just a bit feminist :P

If they don't the Burqas are the least of their worries. I understand what you mean, but all the government can do is allow them and hope that the people wearing them do it out of their own free will. Just like you can't guarantee the kid playing soccer wants to or his dad is forcing him...should we ban soccer?

 

There are many who out of free will want to wear it for religious reasons, and let them. Its equally as wrong for a Muslim country to force a women to wear it as it is to ban a women who wants to wear it.

 

I just have a problem with people forcing their personal views upon others....people wanted to ban Harry Potter...I'm sure you'd thing that was ridiculous but to them it was not, what gives you or Mark wanting to ban the Burqa the right over banning Harry Potter for teaching kids evil magic? TV causes violence, many want it banned...where do you draw the line? Only with what you personally believe?

 

I'm not Muslim am I to want them banned for not conforming to my western ways?

 

As I said, you can't use "religion" as an excuse or anyone could set up a religion (it's quite easy to do) and come up with some ludicrous rules for its followers, such as "nakedness at all times" or wearing a S.S. uniform.

Then - according to you - this would be totally acceptable as it would conform to a religion.

And incidentally, the ones who wanted to ban Harry Potter were - surprise, surprise - fundamental Christians!!

Anyone see a pattern developing here??:rolleyes:

 

And as I stated previously, if you had your way, you would ban abortions because you personally don't agree with it, which would mean forcing your views on women whether they liked it or not.......................... :dozey: