:nod:

 

Shocking that people still continue to miss the point of this thread.

 

 

I think I understand the point, I'm just confused as to what people think they're going to prove. The quality of Chris' current songwriting vs. his prior songwriting is entirely subjective. You're right when you say it's worse because to you, it is. Others are equally right when they say it's just as good/better because from their perspective, it is. It's not a factual debate where you can use evidence to conclusively "proove" your side, only to support your opinion. At this point, the whole thing is degenerating into a big circular arguement.

Scenario A: Coldplay uses their artistic direction to do something an idiot likes - OMG THEY HAVE SO MUCH INTEGRITY THEY ARE TRUE ARTISTS.

 

Scenario B: Coldplay uses their artistic direction to do something an idiot doesn't like - OMG THE MONEY HAS GONE TO THEIR HEADS THEY ARE SELL OUTS FUCK COLDPLAY.

 

Note: in both Scenario A and Scenario B Coldplay have incredible amounts of money and fame.

 

Just so you fellas know, Coldplay have been incredibly rich and famous since Parachutes landed. Just because they do something you don't like doesn't mean all of a sudden they have SOLD OUT.

 

The problem here isn't with them, it's with you. You just don't like the music they write now. Get over it and hope the next record has a different style. You don't get to take the moral high ground and claim ridiculous things just because an artist does something you don't like.

 

I think I understand the point, I'm just confused as to what people think they're going to prove. The quality of Chris' current songwriting vs. his prior songwriting is entirely subjective. You're right when you say it's worse because to you, it is. Others are equally right when they say it's just as good/better because from their perspective, it is. It's not a factual debate where you can use evidence to conclusively "proove" your side, only to support your opinion. At this point, the whole thing is degenerating into a big circular arguement.

 

This is true also. When said idiots claim Coldplay has sold out and people negate their claims they nearly always go for the "you just don't understand what I'm saying" option. It allows them to continue to take the moral high ground/intellectual high ground without doubling back. It's a clever tactic you see in all forms of life.

 

And you're absolutely right. Mr Martin's writing, to me, seems to be of the same quality as always. Songs like Paradise have average lyrics but the band never pretended that it didn't. Paradise is quite a simple song (as far as the message goes) and it's expressed very simply. I fully believe that Chris was never trying to write something incredibly intricate. He was actually trying to write a simple song that expressed triumph over adversity so a contest winner could sing it on television. What came out was a very well composed and very well polish pop/rock song. I think songs like Everything's Not Lost, In My Place, Lost, etc were also written with a similiar state of mind. None of those songs were written in a very "high brow" way. So this clearly isn't unique to this record.

 

All of the other songs on MX have the same lyrical quality as any other album. In fact, I think a few of them have actually raised the bar as far as Coldplay's lyrics go. In particular Us Against the World.

 

But it's all subjective. I know some very intelligent people (one of which has a doctorate in English literature) and he thinks Paradise is one of the best songs he has ever heard and is now a Coldplay fan because of that song. He recognises it's not written in the style of Dickens, but it is incredibly powerful in doing what it is trying to do. This may be somewhat of a tangent, but it just reinforces my point. A lot of the critics in this thread have attempted to prove that their opinions of Coldplay are objectively true and are based behind intellect. They aren't. It's sheer opinion and it's all as valid as each other. No one is right.

 

And that's fine. But I do think it's slightly overstepping the mark when you then start making objectively structured statements about the band and start trying to convince everyone that Chris Martin is now some money and fame obsessed Hollywood hot shot. I think that's bullshit.

Just so you fellas know, Coldplay have been incredibly rich and famous since Parachutes landed. Just because they do something you don't like doesn't mean all of a sudden they have SOLD OUT.

 

The problem here isn't with them, it's with you. You just don't like the music they write now. Get over it and hope the next record has a different style.

 

I can tell you didn't bother to read or digest what people were actually saying in this thread because 1) this isn't about Coldplay "selling out"; and 2) this isn't about their musical style and/or direction.

 

In fact, I have made that distinction from the very beginning - you can look for yourself.

 

Quick suggestion: next time you decide to take the moral high ground, don't completely mischaracterize other people's statements. I'm sure your English doctorate will tell you the same thing.

I can tell you didn't bother to read or digest what people were actually saying in this thread because 1) this isn't about Coldplay "selling out"; and 2) this isn't about their musical style and/or direction.

 

In fact, I have made that distinction from the very beginning - you can look for yourself.

 

Quick suggestion: next time you decide to take the moral high ground, don't completely mischaracterize other people's statements. I'm sure your English doctorate will tell you the same thing.

 

It kind of is about those things man. Since the crux of your arguement is that Chris is now a worse writer because he's too rich and/or famous, surely you can see where people corrolate those things with "selling out", even if you didn't intend it in that manner. Likewise, for something to be worse compared to previous work by the same person, it would somehow have to be substantively different, either in directon or style.

I can tell you didn't bother to read or digest what people were actually saying in this thread because 1) this isn't about Coldplay "selling out"; and 2) this isn't about their musical style and/or direction.

 

In fact, I have made that distinction from the very beginning - you can look for yourself.

 

Quick suggestion: next time you decide to take the moral high ground, don't completely mischaracterize other people's statements. I'm sure your English doctorate will tell you the same thing.

 

I actually read every single comment before I responded. That's a rule I have in forums, especially about issues like this.

 

Your argument = Chris Martin is no longer a good song writer because he has been influenced by Hollywood and is either too rich or too caught up with fame and pop music to care about good songwriting. You have said, as if it was a fact, that Chris Martin is now obsessed with the famous lifestyle and can't relate to "everyday" issues anymore. Which, unless I see some objective proof, is a total wank of a thing to say.

 

This is essentially the exact same argument that Coldplay have sold out. It just uses different terminology.

 

I call a spade a spade buddy. You're making the same argument as every other "coldplay have sold out!" idiots have.

 

You've also not responded to 90% of my post, and you're clearly just grasping at straws.

can't really agree witht that

long post O.O

 

When said idiots claim Coldplay has sold out and people negate their claims they nearly always go for the "you just don't understand what I'm saying" option. It allows them to continue to take the moral high ground/intellectual high ground without doubling back. It's a clever tactic you see in all forms of life.

[...]

But it's all subjective. I know some very intelligent people (one of which has a doctorate in English literature) and he thinks Paradise is one of the best songs he has ever heard and is now a Coldplay fan because of that song. He recognises it's not written in the style of Dickens, but it is incredibly powerful in doing what it is trying to do. This may be somewhat of a tangent, but it just reinforces my point. A lot of the critics in this thread have attempted to prove that their opinions of Coldplay are objectively true and are based behind intellect. They aren't. It's sheer opinion and it's all as valid as each other. No one is right.

 

And that's fine. But I do think it's slightly overstepping the mark when you then start making objectively structured statements about the band and start trying to convince everyone that Chris Martin is now some money and fame obsessed Hollywood hot shot. I think that's bullshit.

Another clever tactic you see when people use arguments to back up their statement: throw in authority. ‘Wow, this dude has a doctorate in English literature and thinks Paradise is one of the best songs he has ever heard’... You're right, this is a fallacy and I understand you're just using it to show that others when using this to 'prove' their right are bullshitting. I’m just afraid that others now would misinterpret it and think you are now using it to back up why Paradise lyrics would not be shitty/poor. People, please don’t. :P

 

I don’t this was directed directly to para-para-parrotdies, but he took it so anyway? I think Jawr was talking about stuff he saw in this thread, and many people have posted weird things posted in here. I can’t help but get some back because I agree with Jawr.

(This is a bold statement, let’s hear his arguments and see if any can back this up:)[/color]

 

Because Yorke's discontent is part of his nature. (Is it?) When he reached the glory he became even more "crazy", so he was able to get better with every record. (How does becoming more crazy automatically lead to being able to get better with every record? Also, did he really become more “crazy”?) Yorke may be a millionaire with his live solved, but in his heart there always be a "spark" that tries to reach to something else than empty success. (okay ... where does this come from? And how does all the above work as a valid argument to back up statement ‘Thom Yorke is still an artist, but Chris Martin is not’?)

 

When Martin was young he was a nerd, he was frustated because he wanted to have sex with beautiful women. (Okay ... he was frustrated .... BECAUSE he wanted to have sex with beautiful women? Erhm, this does not even say IF he had sex with them or not. So why the frust? Also, doesn’t the average man want to have sex with beautiful women? Are they all frustrated? Are you?) So he used his talent to express his anguish and inner feelings into his songs. (Again a ‘so’ implying this would automatically follow from the last thing, which was that he was a nerd and frustrated. But what was the whole point again? Is this supposed to show that Martin used to be an artist?) But now we know that Martin is a superficial person. (Do we? Maybe Lory does, she knows these kind of things) Now that he's sexy, rich and idolazed his life is accomplished. (Is it? Is he sexy? Is this really what accomplishes ones live? And wasn’t that what was just said about Thom as well? His live is solved? BUT Thom’s heart has a “spark” so he’s not like Chris Martin ..... wait, whut?)

Mylo Xyloto is not a work of art beacause his author aim is not to express his desires in the only way he knows. (Did he then express his desires in another way, that maybe he didn’t know? Is that aim really the only way an album can be considered art?) His target is to throw a new hit, to do something cool (or so it thinks) like his friends Jay-Z and other millionaires does. (How do you know this is his target? And even IF it is, then isn’t this his desire he expresses in the way he knows so according to your definition of art this would still be art?)

Sum up; this guy gives a definition as if this is a generally accepted definition (which it is not) and makes a bold statement, which he doesn’t back up with additional rambling, he just says the same thing again - if we assume he doesn’t really have the supernatural power to look into Thom’s and Chris’ heart/mind. No, even if he could, then his argumentation still does not make sense.

(What? Don’t have passion to something? What does that mean? Is this maybe the “spark” that Thom Yorke will always have in his heart? Is this also the star that he stole from Rihanna, lalalalalalalaaaa?)[/color]

The fact that you people persist with this pointless negativity against something you're supposed to love astounds me.

We’re supposed to love Coldplay.... critisism and sceptism is not allowed when you’re on coldplaying.com, moreover, it is pointless negativity! Yeah, right ...

 

I hope people don’t get it wrong and won’t my post as ‘oh, she thinks she knows better’ because, you see, I know better ... nah, kidding, of course not. ;)

I am clouded and biased (not because I live to defend Coldplay and want Chris in my bed), and surely I take things wrong when people meant them right, so any reaction is welcome. But at least I try to add in this discussion in depth and have read each single post in here, just like – I am pretty sure – Jawr has done. I still think Jawr has a good point, this is mostly about opinions and they can’t really be wrong ... also do I enjoy the thread para-para-parrotdies has started and more so the discussion, also his input.

Okay some say it’s a stupid thread, I say it’s not.

:escaping2:

Scenario A: Coldplay uses their artistic direction to do something an idiot likes - OMG THEY HAVE SO MUCH INTEGRITY THEY ARE TRUE ARTISTS.

 

Scenario B: Coldplay uses their artistic direction to do something an idiot doesn't like - OMG THE MONEY HAS GONE TO THEIR HEADS THEY ARE SELL OUTS FUCK COLDPLAY.

 

Note: in both Scenario A and Scenario B Coldplay have incredible amounts of money and fame.

 

Just so you fellas know, Coldplay have been incredibly rich and famous since Parachutes landed. Just because they do something you don't like doesn't mean all of a sudden they have SOLD OUT.

 

The problem here isn't with them, it's with you. You just don't like the music they write now. Get over it and hope the next record has a different style. You don't get to take the moral high ground and claim ridiculous things just because an artist does something you don't like.

 

 

 

This is true also. When said idiots claim Coldplay has sold out and people negate their claims they nearly always go for the "you just don't understand what I'm saying" option. It allows them to continue to take the moral high ground/intellectual high ground without doubling back. It's a clever tactic you see in all forms of life.

 

And you're absolutely right. Mr Martin's writing, to me, seems to be of the same quality as always. Songs like Paradise have average lyrics but the band never pretended that it didn't. Paradise is quite a simple song (as far as the message goes) and it's expressed very simply. I fully believe that Chris was never trying to write something incredibly intricate. He was actually trying to write a simple song that expressed triumph over adversity so a contest winner could sing it on television. What came out was a very well composed and very well polish pop/rock song. I think songs like Everything's Not Lost, In My Place, Lost, etc were also written with a similiar state of mind. None of those songs were written in a very "high brow" way. So this clearly isn't unique to this record.

 

All of the other songs on MX have the same lyrical quality as any other album. In fact, I think a few of them have actually raised the bar as far as Coldplay's lyrics go. In particular Us Against the World.

 

But it's all subjective. I know some very intelligent people (one of which has a doctorate in English literature) and he thinks Paradise is one of the best songs he has ever heard and is now a Coldplay fan because of that song. He recognises it's not written in the style of Dickens, but it is incredibly powerful in doing what it is trying to do. This may be somewhat of a tangent, but it just reinforces my point. A lot of the critics in this thread have attempted to prove that their opinions of Coldplay are objectively true and are based behind intellect. They aren't. It's sheer opinion and it's all as valid as each other. No one is right.

 

And that's fine. But I do think it's slightly overstepping the mark when you then start making objectively structured statements about the band and start trying to convince everyone that Chris Martin is now some money and fame obsessed Hollywood hot shot. I think that's bullshit.

 

 

even an idiot (you like that word don't you!) would never suggest paradise is lyrically good so it doesn't take a doctorate to figure that out! im sure you've heard pink floyd's high hopes? that song would define genius lyrics pretty well for your friend. yes simplicity could in some cases lead to great lyrics but barbie girl was simple too. im not saying paradise is as bad as barbie girl but it isnt great. HOWEVER thats just my opinion and i totally respect yours. heck you can say one direction deserves a grammy and it wouldnt bother me