I feel the need to stress, first and foremost, that I am not advocating that we leave democracy as the way in which authority is determined. I simply wish to use this thread in order to look at the pitfalls of the democracy in our respective cultures. These pitfalls may be far smaller than any alternatives currently available, but this does not necessarily mean that they should not be discussed.

 

Possible areas of discussion:

 

• The constraints that time limits on tenures in position of authority and how that hinders our ability to make long term plans (particularly environmental), given that the default position of any challenging political party is one of disagreement.
  
• The different manifestations of democracy and which elements you feel are most beneficial. This can include comparisons to the origins of democracy and models from ancient times
  
• The specific political model in your culture (be it a system of direct representation, a first past the post system (as seen in the UK), issues involving local governments or federal governments, excessive power being held in the capitals or major cities of different cultures.
  
• Areas outside of democracy that could need to be changed to maximise the benefits of your current manifestation of democracy (such as the way the media reports political news, how transparent the political parties in your countries are, the emphasis placed on appearance and PR as opposed to meaningful political debate
  

Wow I didn't realise you were so totalitarian, is it permitted to talk about cultures outside our own? Do I have permission to stay away from "Possible areas of discussion" please Il Douche?

 

Sorry I'll stop. In fact I better stop in case your cronies bash my front door in or your decide to charge me window tax you tyrant.

 

I'll have a little think about this later when I'm less sweepy, but you're right there will never be a form of basic governing that doesn't have flaws and many differing flaws depending on the type of society it's governing. I think the main issue is the balance between activism and governing, the problem with democracy is that it helps but also delays the decision making process.

 

Another issue is defining what truly is democracy, there are many examples of countries that are considered a 'democracy' because officially they have "free elections", even if those elections are seriously hindered and openly corrupt, and there is no such thing as a free press as it's always controlled by international interests in that country (And the media can practically control power and elections in countries with poor education) and of course just blatant militarily induced force. Now those countries would be pretty obvious and extreme examples of failed democracies (Example http://www.thedialogue.org/page.cfm?pageID=32&pubID=3095, no longer as much under militant force now but only up until recently, and it's been "democratic" for decades) but to what extent would say, America be truly democratic? Freedom of press, sure, but blatantly biased major media outlets, which more importantly downplay the spirit of democracy itself in local activism, and even in the run up to choosing a president every 4 years they decide the playing field of issues decided by the ridiculous amount of money poured into the election by businesses, with has absolutely no regulation on it.

 

I suppose what I just wrote are major flaws in the democratic process, particularly in local activism, and I might write about the Ireland and UK next if you force me to Pol Bradcock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_democracy

America be truly democratic? Freedom of press,

 

I'd say our press isn't that free and is getting worse. There are only a few companies now that control almost the entire news market and they're all politically connected and sensor.

 

As former president Jimmy Carter recently said “America does not at the moment have a functioning democracy,”

How about freedom on the Internet?

I don't have a problem with democracy itself, more of how it is expressed. America's 'democratic republic' is a pretty stupid idea because once you elect your leader, you don't really have too much of an influence on their actions. I know a true democracy isn't feasible, but could we at least try? :\

Greg, do you have any good books/articles/websites on democratic theories?

I'm afraid I don't. It's just arisen from discussions amongst friends whilst high and I made the thread in order to try and further develop these ideas.

 

About half an hour ago I bought a couple of kindle books though. No idea if they'll be any good though as they were cheap and I've not read them yet, so I'll recommend them if I like them.

 

 

The only thing I can recommend on similar lines is John Stuart Mill's 'On Liberty', which is they closest to a utopia that I'd be interested in.

What I think is a major flaw of democracy here is the fact that voting is compulsory. That means that everybody, even those people who don't care at all about politics are forced to vote every election. Which means that political parties which no one with a bit of brain would vote get 10% of the vote :bomb:

What I think is a major flaw of democracy here is the fact that voting is compulsory. That means that everybody, even those people who don't care at all about politics are forced to vote every election. Which means that political parties which no one with a bit of brain would vote get 10% of the vote :bomb:

 

It's often said that all systems should adopt this, but I'm not convinced by the argument that if people have to vote they will put the effort in to educate themselves on politics. The negatives of not adopting this is voter apathy.

 

The ideal would be for it not to be compulsory, but achieving a 100% turnout.

Never gonna happen.

Forcing people to vote is stupid. Because if they don't want to, they won't be interested in choosing the best candidate and probably just select at random or without much research.

Can you spoil your vote in that system?

By the way, Nick, I really hope you read that.

Can you spoil your vote in that system?

 

What do you mean?

 

By the way, Nick, I really hope you read that.

 

It's on my list!

What do you mean?

 

 

 

It's on my list!

 

You can go in and scribble over your vote and it gets counted as a spoiled vote. It's instead of being lumped in with simple apathy, which could have been produced through a number of reasons (even not finding time to turn up). Still as pointless, in the great scheme of things. Just wondered if it was available in that system.

 

Sweet.

Apparently it's called the residual vote in America.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoilt_vote

 

 

 

Though I hadn't realised that a spoilt vote could also include simply filling it out wrong accidentally, or unclearly. So even more pointless as you're lumped in with that lot.

It's often said that all systems should adopt this, but I'm not convinced by the argument that if people have to vote they will put the effort in to educate themselves on politics. The negatives of not adopting this is voter apathy.

 

The ideal would be for it not to be compulsory, but achieving a 100% turnout.

Never gonna happen.

 

Indeed. Achieving a 100% turnout is impossible. If it is compulsory people will not try to educate on politics and vote at random

 

Forcing people to vote is stupid. Because if they don't want to, they won't be interested in choosing the best candidate and probably just select at random or without much research.

Yes, that's what I think; and that's what happens here

 

Can you spoil your vote in that system?

 

Yes, you can. There are several ways to do it. As the process of voting involves putting a ballot into an envelop, you can do several things in order to spoil your vote:

You can put a shattered ballot into the envelop; then your vote will be invalidated.

You can put nothing at all into the envelop; then your vote will be counted as null.

Or you can get stupid and crazy and put just whatever you want inside the envelop. During the TV broadcast of the voting counts on election days I have seen all kinds of stuff found inside the envelops. Porn is a common thing, but there has been underwear and once salami. Yes, salami :|

I knew this thread had more potential than the one reply it originally garnered.

The voting papers should have a 'none of the above' option.

 

Short term minor gains over long term major gains

Short term minor gains over long term major gains

 

Indeed. That was my original basis for making the thread.