actually no.

actually no?

actually not everyone supports obama? what did you mean?

Zoe's right - this is a thread about the Inauguration, so Nick, we'd both do better arguing politics on another;).

And since Obama's Inauguration was a success, I can't help but be swept up in the enthusiasm either!! Thanks for the photos, Zoe!!:)

 

Oh, they're only just beginning :evil: I'm creating a flickr album as we speak! :dance:

actually no?

actually not everyone supports obama? what did you mean?

 

i meant that they said that they are republican and would never vote democratic.

 

more than half the school is republican anyway.

 

is that enough proof for you, or do you feel they need to prove me wrong for what i said.

I know what has been proven and can predict what will work based upon proven logic. Actions have reactions and understanding a reaction to something is not knowing everything. Economics comes down to basic proven principals, this has all happened many times in the history of man. I can only look a the facts, logic and trends and try to be fair and make a prediction. But everyone knows if you drop a ball it will fall because of gravity, it's predictable based upon proven science.

 

If someone smokes four pacts of cigarettes a day I can say on good authority they will probably have cancer, not because I know it all but because that is what has been proven with logic and science and understanding what is going on.

 

People are messy. You can't analyze them in the same way you would examine gravity. This is a difference between the social sciences and the natural sciences.

 

Look, it does no good for me to argue with you. I have already apologized to the others.

 

There is no point in arguing political issues on a message board because it is a never ending process. I can tell you know a lot about politics, but you are condescending in your approach.

*gives up on this thread and resolves to create a new one when photos are uploaded*

i meant that they said that they are republican and would never vote democratic.

 

more than half the school is republican anyway.

 

is that enough proof for you, or do you feel they need to prove me wrong for what i said.

no need to get so defensive.

 

umm. no, i just think that you don't know what every single person that you say are "brainwashed" republicans at your school opinion is.

so just because they are republicans doesn't mean they were "brainwashed".

In the inaugural address, Obama spent time showcasing how we do come together as a nation and resolve our differences, not through overthrow but through the democratic process, and then work together as a nation. But I have to agree with him that it's time to value the working class and average americans, and stop favoring the wealthy elites.

As far as Republicans being so negative about his inauguration, I think they're just over-reacting. Obama will undoubtedly move legislatively to help all Americans, and part of the problems we face are the direct result of Republican policies, vis-vi the corporate softening of rules governing banking and investing. Most of the Republicans I know are shop owners, small and mid-sized business managers, and they haven't benefitted from the derailment in the markets, nor by policies set to favor the top multinational corporations;

People are messy. You can't analyze them in the same way you would examine gravity. This is a difference between the social sciences and the natural sciences.

 

Look, it does no good for me to argue with you. I have already apologized to the others.

 

There is no point in arguing political issues on a message board because it is a never ending process. I can tell you know a lot about politics, but you are condescending in your approach.

 

People are messy, but there are proven things that cannot be changed because of that. People as a variable only change the time frame of what has been proven. There are proven things in economics that the only things people can change is the time frame not the end result. Science can delay death but not cure it.

 

When dealing with variables all you can do is look at the trends and what has been proven to get the most accurate forecast of what is going to happen. No one can predict the future, just give a good estimate of what is going ot happen based upon facts and logic. But in the end when it comes to economics there are proven things that cannot be changed or ignored in the long term.

 

The most successful people weren't/aren't fortune tellers but those who look at history and trends and were able to deduce what is going to happen and account for as many of the variables as possible.

In the inaugural address, Obama spent time showcasing how we do come together as a nation and resolve our differences, not through overthrow but through the democratic process, and then work together as a nation. But I have to agree with him that it's time to value the working class and average americans, and stop favoring the wealthy elites.

As far as Republicans being so negative about his inauguration, I think they're just over-reacting. Obama will undoubtedly move legislatively to help all Americans, and part of the problems we face are the direct result of Republican policies, vis-vi the corporate softening of rules governing banking and investing. Most of the Republicans I know are shop owners, small and mid-sized business managers, and they haven't benefitted from the derailment in the markets, nor by policies set to favor the top multinational corporations;

 

Partisan politics will get us no where. Blaming one side when both are the blame just furthers the problem. Until we realize both sides caused the problem, we cannot solve it. There were many Democrats in office that help create this mess.

look at the Dems and who gives them money and how they vote, you'll see they are just as much financially tied to big business as the Repubs. Chuck you ignore your sides sins and call out the other side for doing teh exact same thing. You're side is equally to blame for the things you speak of. How is real change then possible if you cannot admit to your sides corruption?

Can everyone just shut up with the arguing?[/color] It's unpleasant and unflattering. If you can't celebrate anything else, celebrate the fact that there was a peaceful transfer of power today. Or go fight via PMs or something, because this is not why this thread was created...

 

Sorry Zoe, I couldn't help making some remarks about China or gradual yet effective reform :(

 

I like Obama as a person (as in the qualities he has to be a leader), I'm happy he's president even though I don't agree with all of his ideas or campaign promises/tentative policies. McCain was alright in my book, my issue was with the Republican Party for being a shadow of what it used to be. I cannot call myself a Democrat since there's a couple of their big issues I'm against (i.e. gay marriage, abortion, etc). The transition of power was peaceful, and the speech was right on about America facing challenges we must all help overcome.

EDIT: felt need to mention that I cannot vote yet due to my legal status in the U.S. Next time, I'll be able to, and I intend to make an informed decision before casting my vote.

 

NO, he won't solve all problems.

NO, he won't solve problems quickly.

NO, I don't worship him as a god.

NO, I'm not planning to leave to another place so I can avoid paying taxes that I think will be misused and wasted.

NO, I'm not expecting him to address the issues I care about as priorities.

NO, I don't want to keep going off-topic :P

 

Ok, now, show us the pics! :D

We'll see in four years how Obama did. My bet? There will be lot of partisan blaming going around when things get more dire. Centrally-planned economies never work, regardless of how nice the leader seems, or what he chooses to spend your money on.

^I created a new thread for anyone who wants to post pics, and I've posted a link to mine there :nice:

 

http://www.coldplaying.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2764454

 

EDIT: directed 2 posts up

Sorry Zoe, I couldn't help making some remarks about China or gradual yet effective reform :(

 

I like Obama as a person (as in the qualities he has to be a leader), I'm happy he's president even though I don't agree with all of his ideas or campaign promises/tentative policies. McCain was alright in my book, my issue was with the Republican Party for being a shadow of what it used to be. I cannot call myself a Democrat since there's a couple of their big issues I'm against (i.e. gay marriage, abortion, etc). The transition of power was peaceful, and the speech was right on about America facing challenges we must all help overcome.

EDIT: felt need to mention that I cannot vote yet due to my legal status in the U.S. Next time, I'll be able to, and I intend to make an informed decision before casting my vote.

 

NO, he won't solve all problems.

NO, he won't solve problems quickly.

NO, I don't worship him as a god.

NO, I'm not planning to leave to another place so I can avoid paying taxes that I think will be misused and wasted.

NO, I'm not expecting him to address the issues I care about as priorities.

NO, I don't want to keep going off-topic :P

 

Ok, now, show us the pics! :D

same here.

Well i never really supported Obama..Im more of a Clinton lover!

But ya im not against gay marriage and Abortion I think its the persons choice......BUT I am against Gay couples adopting.....

We'll see in four years how Obama did. My bet? There will be lot of partisan blaming going around when things get more dire. Centrally-planned economies never work, regardless of how nice the leader seems, or what he chooses to spend your money on.

 

On a previous post, I said that Singapore and New Zealand seem good places to live (specially Singapore if you are ok with a strict enforcement of law and quasi-democratic system). Certainly, New Zealand and Singapore have efficient tax systems and governments that use them efficiently.

 

I don't see anything wrong with moving to another country, I did that and I plan on moving in the future to work abroad. But is the reason you gave what I couldn't stomach. I understand that is you hard-earned money, and you have the right of keeping much of it as possible and use it as you please. Yet it still strikes me as a superficial reason, I cannot help it :rolleyes:

 

I'm sure you have other reasons, no doubt.

Yes, there are other reasons, but...

 

You can't stomach the fact I want to keep my own money, rather than letting someone steal it?

 

Please read the quote in my signature and see just how backwards you're thinking!

Yes, there are other reasons, but...

 

You can't stomach the fact I want to keep my own money, rather than letting someone steal it?

 

Please read the quote in my signature and see just how backwards you're thinking!

 

That was just my first impression, like a gut reaction. It'll make more sense with time. What am I supposed to do? Move to Singapore?

 

EDIT: found some tips on how to out-smart the government. Hey everyone, here's how:

 

* For maximum privacy, profit, and asset protection against government plunder: set-up your own family limited partnership, corporation, limited liability company, and domestic or foreign trust account.

* Hire a competent financial advisor/mentor, setup your own self-directed profit-sharing plan. It will generate new wealth and "interest" income for you and your family.

That was just my first impression, like a gut reaction. It'll make more sense with time. What am I supposed to do? Move to Singapore?

 

Not necessarily, but I'm fascinated by your gut reaction being so negative! Read this:

 

It is impossible to introduce into society a greater change and a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder.

 

What are the consequences of such a perversion? It would require volumes to describe them all. Thus we must content ourselves with pointing out the most striking.

 

In the first place, it erases from everyone's conscience the distinction between justice and injustice.

 

No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them. The nature of law is to maintain justice. This is so much the case that, in the minds of the people, law and justice are one and the same thing. There is in all of us a strong disposition to believe that anything lawful is also legitimate. This belief is so widespread that many persons have erroneously held that things are "just" because law makes them so. Thus, in order to make plunder appear just and sacred to many consciences, it is only necessary for the law to decree and sanction it. Slavery, restrictions, and monopoly find defenders not only among those who profit from them but also among those who suffer from them.

 

That's another quote from Bastiat. It's not necessary to do everything in your power to avoid taxation (because you can never escape it), but I think it's important that everybody understands why it is evil. Taxation steals half your life from you. It takes away your right to decide how to spend your money... or even which charity to donate it to. But we're taught that paying our taxes is a good thing, a "patriotic" thing! But I'm an anarchist, so I don't see the good in any system of government.

 

Here's the whole essay, if you want to print it and read it all. If you end up agreeing with it, show your friends and see what they think!

 

http://www.constitution.org/law/bastiat.htm

Jay's private army will also be defending the US, and his justice system will ensure equal justice for all!:P Governments simply will not exist without revenue, which should be made affordable, fair and as efficiently & wisely used as possible; but in my mind better to reform what we've got, than abandon ship and wait for some inevitable calamity.

The need for reform is apparent and great; Fair Elections

What army, Chuck? Some institution or corporation would have a nuclear bomb, and that's plenty to ward off threat of invasion... Further, who would invade an anarchic territory? What's the motive? There's no tax collection apparatus and the insurgencies would be devastating to the occupying troops.

 

Want a good justice system? That's like asking if you want a good insurance company. The simple answer is to have many of them! People can subscribe to whichever dispute resolution organization they feel best represents their interests and would dole out fair punishments. If a punishment is unfair, the public will hear about it and the DRO will lose customers. You should be able to pick your justice system like you pick which car you drive or what clothes you wear.

 

Decentralization and competition work in the free market, they would work everywhere else, too!

Nice idea, but I believe it would lead to someone just moving in to take over. And a private corporation having the bomb - hmm.. now there's a novel thought! Let's see, it could be the Heritage Foundation vs. the Annenberg Foundation? These would be small nuclear devices, then??:laugh3: What's wrong with reform? Too unlikely at this stage? Too many inter-woven groups? What's the argument against it.

Hey, hold on there! We had that once - each colony, as I recall, had their own system, and metered out justice about as evenly as hen house lays eggs. Subject to breed, season, temperment, and if you're from the right flock or not. I'll take the uniform system, but want more equity so that equal justice for all is not just some writing on a piece of paper..

If I'm to select a justice system I like, then the oposing view will want one favorable to their interest. Companies can compete for better products, but market choices for justice just seems a stretch into something which looks unharnessable.

Not necessarily, but I'm fascinated by your gut reaction being so negative!

 

That's another quote from Bastiat. It's not necessary to do everything in your power to avoid taxation (because you can never escape it), but I think it's important that everybody understands why it is evil. Taxation steals half your life from you. It takes away your right to decide how to spend your money... or even which charity to donate it to. But we're taught that paying our taxes is a good thing, a "patriotic" thing! But I'm an anarchist, so I don't see the good in any system of government.

 

Here's the whole essay, if you want to print it and read it all. If you end up agreeing with it, show your friends and see what they think!

 

http://www.constitution.org/law/bastiat.htm

 

Oh my, I was about to ask you that once I read your quote. I took an Ideologies class, so I was able to recognize that as something an anarchist would agree with. An individualist anarchist to be exact. Although you don't have to be an anarchist to agree with Bastiat's thoughts.

 

I won't be paying taxes this year (hooray for being a poor college student who didn't work all year) Well, that proves your point about taxation. I didn't have an incentive to get a summer job because I KNEW it would all go away in $4/gallon gas and taxes. When the time for having a full-time job comes, I already figured that I want to reduce the amount of taxes I pay by giving to charity as much as possible. If Bill Gates does it, why shouldn't I?

 

My gut reaction maybe negative from your perspective. Not saying that it's right or wrong, it stems from the little importance I give to money (shocking, I know). Hence, when I see others (including my parents) complaining/worrying about money or taxes, I cannot help thinking of the Buddhist noble truth about suffering ending once craving (of wordly pleasures of all kinds) ends. Or the other saying about wanting what you have makes you happier than having what you want. And I'm not even Buddhist, and these spiritual ideals might seem dumb to you. But hey, I have my philosophy, you have yours, right? :lol:

 

EDIT: I will read the essay. Must get some sleep first though.

hmm I did a lot more on election day.. I made Obama cupcakes.. and made myself an Obama shirt... and for dinner I made "Chili for Change"

 

 

I made Obama cupcakes as well :D:D:D YAY!!

Let's see, it could be the Heritage Foundation vs. the Annenberg Foundation?

What about the RAND!?? :laugh3:

Well, absolutely! Arm the non-profits! Everyone should have nuclear tipped, bunker-busting missiles; otherwise, it would be a monopoly, and that's just a terrible thing!

Plus, think of all the unique designs! No more stale old neutron bombs, or multiple warhead rockets, but now there could be designer nuclear devices - like nuclear coffee makers, or nuclear automobile bumpers. Now that would put an end to collisions and tailgaters fast!:laugh3:

I want an Obama cupcake!! Wahaa!! Pplease??