Riots on the Streets of UK

[Cyan Kat]

Oh nevermind then I'd read that he wasn't returning .

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

Now hearing rumours that Birmingham Children's Hospital has been attacked. That is just awful.

[nancyk58]

Now hearing rumours that Birmingham Children's Hospital has been attacked. That is just awful.

 

 

Shocking :o and worrying. :cry:

[Cyan Kat]

Heard rumours that riots are breaking out in Liverpool

[nancyk58]

Heard rumours that riots are breaking out in Liverpool

 

It seems to be spreading fast. :(

[chuck kottke]

Cutting at a time of economic recession makes no sense; when an engine is starving for fuel, do you then turn off the power coming from the battery and expect it to run better? Do you allow one cylinder to misfire, expecting smooth operation? Nuts, simply nuts, and I see now what Pete is saying, I just thought London had turned over a new leaf and the economic prosperity had made its way to everyone, which sadly is not the case.

Opportunity and Equity for all, it's essential. We don't live in a world of limited resources as much as we live in a world of limiting equity and limiting of human potential. That must change. The Stratos City Dwellers cannot hold themselves on an island of insular living and thinking, for all deserve opportunity for improvements in their lives, descent jobs + good pay, and the whole of humanity then advances.

Would David Cameron really do the right thing?? I hope so!

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

Cutting at a time of economic recession makes no sense; when an engine is starving for fuel, do you then turn off the power coming from the battery and expect it to run better? Do you allow one cylinder to misfire, expecting smooth operation? Nuts, simply nuts, and I see now what Pete is saying, I just thought London had turned over a new leaf and the economic prosperity had made its way to everyone, which sadly is not the case.

Opportunity and Equity for all, it's essential. We don't live in a world of limited resources as much as we live in a world of limiting equity and limiting of human potential. That must change. The Stratos City Dwellers cannot hold themselves on an island of insular living and thinking, for all deserve opportunity for improvements in their lives, descent jobs + good pay, and the whole of humanity then advances.

Would David Cameron really do the right thing?? I hope so!

 

Cutting has to happen. It's a major cause of the recent economic pitfall. Some countries just cannot pay off their debts. Cameron's lot are eager to start taking the strain of the UK financially and it's something that other countries are only just considering now.

[Megalomania]

Now hearing rumours that Birmingham Children's Hospital has been attacked. That is just awful.

 

That's just sick. How do the rioters think that attacking a place helping sick, defenseless children is going to help their situations? Shameful.

 

I'm really sorry for anyone affected by this. :hug:

 

 

And I hate when people are stupid and riot, it does nothing but turn the public against you. You can do just as much good with peace as you can bad with violence imo.

[Cyan Kat]

Yeah I'd rather the UK didn't end up like Greece or Ireland and unable to pay mounting debts, I'm really no good at economics either way seems no good.

[burningmonk]

Pretty moving speech from a West Indian Hackney resident. Please watch:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvtbRw0AOo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvtbRw0AOo[/ame]

[chuck kottke]

Cutting has to happen. It's a major cause of the recent economic pitfall. Some countries just cannot pay off their debts. Cameron's lot are eager to start taking the strain of the UK financially and it's something that other countries are only just considering now.

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but stimulating the economy increases the economic output through a multiplication effect, and the increased revenues generated then allow a country to repay its debts. That stimulation needs to come in a form that actually increases the economic activity within the nation which needs it, so instead of giving it all to the super wealthy who just reinvest wherever the biggest payoff is or stash it away, it needs to go to the actual consumers and broad majority of citizens, so they can purchase and stimulate the economy, which in turn increases the economy to allow for debt repayment. Otherwise, it's like starving a starving animal that's slowing down because it's hungry and has no energy. The answer is to feed the animal so it can pull the plow and bring in the crops.

Austerity in a time of economic recession results in a deeper economic recession, and less money to repay debts.

[Tonsu]

I don't believe cops, they lie.

 

Sorry the rioters are destroying the private property of individuals not involved - they should be targeting the police families' property, it would be most effective.

 

The police indeed lie, and cheat. Usually the worst of that goes on at the top levels though in the UK. Even if they are sometimes useless (or occasionally unfair) the ground-level police in this country generally mean well.

 

You can't fake live TV coverage from the frontlines (all across London) and I've been watching it all night. It's all real. All honest. And what those police have gone through in the last three days is unbelievable. Just check out BBC News 24 on a live stream for an hour. You won't believe it.

 

(I'm just listening to a live feed - interview with a lady whose block of flats was burned out but luckily she and her family were able to somehow escape.)

 

I was watching the BBC on my tv and it was really scary to see those images of people setting on fire police cars and houses and breaking into shops to take all what they could get. Very sad, considering London is one of the places that I want to visit the most! :( But I guess violence is everywhere, unfortunately.

 

Violence is everywhere, you are so right, and London is still no more dangerous generally than any capital city, so don't let it put you off visiting sometime :)

 

Just turned on BBC News. MASSIVE fire in Croydon. Riots spreading across London and into other cities like Birmingham as well.

 

And Saffire - don't come out with that shit please.

 

Indeed.

 

Not clever. Not clever at all. I agree that cuts need to be made to our public services but in that area and on that level it's absurd. At the same time I wonder how the Tories are cutting services in the more affluent areas in the South of England and from the evidence I've seen so far it's not good. Poorer areas up and down the UK are getting cut while the affluent areas aren't. And the Tories are trying to present themselves as having changed?

 

You're so right. The cuts that have been put in place here in the southeast are the same as anywhere else. The thing is, most people round here are quite wealthy. The cuts only hit the lowest-income groups, and they're 'invisible' out here. But go into any homeless shelter, or hospital even!!, and the services are being cut so obviously I'll bet. They're cutting support for cancer sufferers for goodness sake!!!!!

 

We've seen evidence of the cuts growing recently round here. There are a lot more kids on the streets, as well as older people who have no doubt lost work. The shops are emptying, there are not so many people on the trains or buses. People are scared to spend. There's been a growing resentment for a while, a feeling of hopelessness, and I think this bromance government have got it utterly wrong by just ignoring it and forcing cut after cut after cut.

 

No-one really thinks they care about the people. And I really believe that's true myself. 100%.

 

Social democracy ftw.

 

Everywhere has received cuts it just seems that the young people are so much worse off and in poorer areas it really does make a big difference something needs to change...

 

Completely agree kat :(

[burningmonk]

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but stimulating the economy increases the economic output through a multiplication effect, and the increased revenues generated then allow a country to repay its debts. That stimulation needs to come in a form that actually increases the economic activity within the nation which needs it, so instead of giving it all to the super wealthy who just reinvest wherever the biggest payoff is or stash it away, it needs to go to the actual consumers and broad majority of citizens, so they can purchase and stimulate the economy, which in turn increases the economy to allow for debt repayment. Otherwise, it's like starving a starving animal that's slowing down because it's hungry and has no energy. The answer is to feed the animal so it can pull the plow and bring in the crops.

Austerity in a time of economic recession results in a deeper economic recession, and less money to repay debts.

 

Hear hear. Well said.

[Cyan Kat]

you should go tell the government that it seems to actually make sense :surprised:

[Tonsu]

you should go tell the government that it seems to actually make sense :surprised:

 

Kat, it's been known to make sense since the 30s (and proven true on huge scales right across the world). Unfortunately the Tories have never admitted that reality.

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but stimulating the economy increases the economic output through a multiplication effect, and the increased revenues generated then allow a country to repay its debts. That stimulation needs to come in a form that actually increases the economic activity within the nation which needs it, so instead of giving it all to the super wealthy who just reinvest wherever the biggest payoff is or stash it away, it needs to go to the actual consumers and broad majority of citizens, so they can purchase and stimulate the economy, which in turn increases the economy to allow for debt repayment. Otherwise, it's like starving a starving animal that's slowing down because it's hungry and has no energy. The answer is to feed the animal so it can pull the plow and bring in the crops.

Austerity in a time of economic recession results in a deeper economic recession, and less money to repay debts.

 

Well the "stimulus" by pumping in more money agreed in October 2008 by Gordon Brown failed miserably. Without cutting an IMF bailout would be highly possible but the government are now following an austerity plan which is satisfying the IMF at the moment. You may use the idea of starving a starving animal but at the same time you wouldn't allow a tumour to grow would you?

 

Where I agree with the ideas of cuts, I don't necessarily agree with the way the Tory led administration is going about it which is a cause of all these riots. That said this problem wouldn't be half as bad if it weren't for Gordon Brown's reckless spending during his years as Chancellor and particularly as Prime Minister.

[Cyan Kat]

Somebody in Liverpool said that there has been a Police van attacked on Smithdown road D:

so glad that I'm back from Liverpool this week.

[Tonsu]

Well the "stimulus" by pumping in more money agreed in October 2008 by Gordon Brown failed miserably. Without cutting an IMF bailout ...

 

Forgive me for snipping your post hystw :)

 

Did you follow the financial figures? We were just starting to pull out of negative growth by the election. Things were turning round. Since then it's been all downhill. Not only has the economy been worse every financial quarter, but services are being cut left, right and centre.

 

And, with all due respect, **** the IMF. How have they helped Britain in the past? Never.

 

We are not in the Eurozone, so our hands are not tied and our currency and economy will never collapse. We don't have to worry about that. But, how much social harm are we prepared to accept before we stop cutting money from hospitals, the poor, the disabled, and the young?

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

Forgive me for snipping your post hystw :)

 

Did you follow the financial figures? We were just starting to pull out of negative growth by the election. Things were turning round. Since then it's been all downhill. Not only has the economy been worse every financial quarter, but services are being cut left, right and centre.

 

And, with all due respect, **** the IMF. How have they helped Britain in the past? Never.

 

We are not in the Eurozone, so our hands are not tied and our currency and economy will never collapse. We don't have to worry about that. But, how much social harm are we prepared to accept before we stop cutting money from hospitals, the poor, the disabled, and the young?

 

I understand. I think we had growth figures of something like 1.5% in the first quarter of 2010 but that was completely ignoring the big elephant in the room ie the deficit. No doubt these cuts have slowed the growth of the economy though.

[chuck kottke]

you should go tell the government that it seems to actually make sense :surprised:

:laugh3: Here, here. And here too! Same insane thinking governing the US right now, the conservatives and their extreme camp have decided to slow down a slow economy, and that somehow will pay off the debt. :confused: Illogical, but it sounds good on the surface, since they use the logic of "when you're overspending in a household, and you owe a lot, then simply spend less and pay off the debt". Which is good thinking for a household in trouble, but really bad thinking for a whole government managing an economy.

Pete, you're right - here too, it was discovered to work in the 30's, and the conservatives never admitted it. I think they have minds which see things just in terms of pushing the burdens on top of working people, and excusing themselves from participating. Lost in believing it's all a game, or wrapped up in dogmatic thinking, either way blinded to the reality right before them.

And how tragic and senseless the consequences, first to set up conditions that perpetuate poverty, and then to watch things unravel when needs are not met - that's no way to improve society, but the response by those most affected is very disheartening as well. Reminds me a bit of the riots in the late 60's, sections of whole cities destroyed, often the poor destroying their neighborhood businesses and the senselessness of their actions only hurt their own communities.

[Guest howyousawtheworld]

:laugh3: Here, here. And here too! Same insane thinking governing the US right now, the conservatives and their extreme camp have decided to slow down a slow economy, and that somehow will pay off the debt. :confused: Illogical, but it sounds good on the surface, since they use the logic of "when you're overspending in a household, and you owe a lot, then simply spend less and pay off the debt". Which is good thinking for a household in trouble, but really bad thinking for a whole government managing an economy.

Pete, you're right - here too, it was discovered to work in the 30's, and the conservatives never admitted it. I think they have minds which see things just in terms of pushing the burdens on top of working people, and excusing themselves from participating. Lost in believing it's all a game, or wrapped up in dogmatic thinking, either way blinded to the reality right before them.

And how tragic and senseless the consequences, first to set up conditions that perpetuate poverty, and then to watch things unravel when needs are not met - that's no way to improve society, but the response by those most affected is very disheartening as well. Reminds me a bit of the riots in the late 60's, sections of whole cities destroyed, often the poor destroying their neighborhood businesses and the senselessness of their actions only hurt their own communities.

 

It's not just a conservative view point here in the UK. The Labour Party agree that the deficit has to be cut and cuts do have to be made. The only difference is that the Labour party at the moment believe in doing it differently. In fact Alistair Darling, the last Labour chancellor was proposing cuts of pretty much the exact nature as George Osborne's. So cutting is a view point shared on the left and the right although it is most heavily supported on the right.

[Cyan Kat]

[nancyk58]

It is really so sad.

 

All these riots - those active are destroying their own neighborhood. By burning down shops or by looting, those rioting are making the situation worse for the shop owners. I am sure that some of those rioting know some of the shop owners whose livelihood they are destroying. It is so meaningless and tragic.

 

Is there any news in relation to the situation in Liverpool?

[Cyan Kat]

I don't know, it's not been reported on the news I just heard from somebody on tumblr who lives there so I can't really verify it.

[Tonsu]

Chuck, I'm sure you will agree with me, NO economic or humanitarian crisis has EVER been solved by the government retreating into itself and cutting money (supplies, support, medical care, social care, etc) from the people. And the crazy thing is we can afford it, we have the money!!

 

Some good analysis on the TV just now. The last time there were widespread city riots in the UK was the early-to-mid 80s (I remember it well, I grew up with it). Then we had:

 

- cuts in government spending

- high unemployment

- a stern Conservative government

 

Right, back to watching the live stream. Take care everyone, and let's hope this finishes soon.