Black Rose Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Rioting after a policeman shot a "gangster" whom opened fire on them first. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsu Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 It's very sad to see, especially just a few hours after the Spurs game finished. I almost went along, and would probably have gone for a drink nearby afterwards for a bit, it's scary to think about. I know one chap who lives on the High Road and watched some of it happening in the road just outside his window :o The shooting is the subject of an IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) inquiry - it's far from clear what the situation around the shooting was until they report back. The family are far from happy and made a protest yesterday - a genuine protest, despite the fact he seems to have been a gangster - because they have not only lost a son, but the circumstances are said to be highly suspicious. Unfortunately any protest in London attracts looters (just remember the student protests) and there are some very poor and very criminal people around that part of London particularly. Very sad to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyan Kat Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I heard somewhere that they believed that the man had shot a police officer but they actually found that the man's gun hadn't been fired and that it could of possibly been another police officer that shot the police officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsu Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I heard somewhere that they believed that the man had shot a police officer but they actually found that the man's gun hadn't been fired and that it could of possibly been another police officer that shot the police officer. The taxi driver would have been the main witness I think, so I guess he's the one who has sparked the investigation (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyk58 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14438109 A section of a very long article from BBC World News: "Twenty-six officers and three others were hurt in the violence which broke out after a protest over the fatal shooting by police of 29-year-old Mark Duggan on Thursday. Rachel Cerfontyne, commissioner with the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) which is investigating Mr Duggan's death, said the 29-year-old had not been "assassinated in an execution style" and that there was "misinformation" about the death on Thursday. "The distress that Mr Duggan's family are in the midst of is understandable, but the violence and disorder we have witnessed over the last 24 hours can never be acceptable," she added. During the riot people threw petrol bombs, reducing many buildings and vehicles to charred wrecks." "Those arrested remain in custody for offences including violent disorder, burglary and theft. Meanwhile, the family of Mr Duggan said they were "not condoning" the violence that erupted. "Please don't make this about my brother's life, he was a good man," his brother Shaun Hall said. BBC crime reporter Ben Ando said there were rumours in the community that a teenage girl who was part of the peaceful protest had been in a kind of confrontation with police. He said: "That appears to be the flashpoint. That was the moment at around about just after eight o'clock when it seemed that elements in the crowd decided to pick on two police cars. They were then set on fire." As well as Mr Duggan, a police officer was also shot in Thursday's incident, which happened in what was called a "pre-planned" event, under Operation Trident, which investigates gun crime in the African and Caribbean communities. Police had stopped a minicab which Mr Duggan had been travelling in." Really scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised if those police officers hurt numbers are a tad exaggerated tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I guess I never think of London as having problems like this, it strikes me as oddly out of place. I suppose no big city is perfect, nor insulated from organized crime - but gangsters? In London? Sad to see the melee afterwords, senseless violence never solves anything. Is there a great deal of poverty and discontentment in parts of London? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyk58 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I guess I never think of London as having problems like this, it strikes me as oddly out of place. I suppose no big city is perfect, nor insulated from organized crime - but gangsters? In London? Sad to see the melee afterwords, senseless violence never solves anything. Is there a great deal of poverty and discontentment in parts of London? I googled "poverty and discontentment in parts of London" and got several links among others: http://www.londonspovertyprofile.org.uk/ Welcome to London's Poverty Profile, the first independent, ... London is by far the richest part of Britain and the engine of the national economy. ... East End of London - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_End_of_London - The East End of London, also known simply as the East End, is the area of ... but some parts continue to contain some of the worst poverty in Britain. Clicking on the top one about Londonspovertyprofile, I was sent to this long document: http://www.poverty.org.uk/reports/london%202009%20findings.pdf The answer is not blowing in the wind, but to be found in these documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyk58 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14439970 8 August 2011 Last updated at 06:56 GMT London riots: Looting and violence continues Sections (marked with " ") of another very long article (see link above): "Police have condemned a wave of "copycat criminal activity" across London in a second night of looting and disorder following riots in Tottenham. More than 100 people have been arrested as officers were attacked, police vehicles damaged and shops looted and damaged in parts of London. Disorder spread to Enfield, Walthamstow and Waltham Forest in north London and to Brixton in the south of the city. Some 35 officers have been injured over the two nights of rioting." "Clashes broke out in Enfield, north London, on Sunday evening where shop windows were smashed and a police car damaged. 'New trainers' There have been reports of a gang of up to 200 youths looting shops and charging police in Coldharbour Lane and the High Street in Brixton, south London. The Met said it had dealt with several incidents of "copycat criminal activity" across the city." "He added: "Obviously there are people in this city, sadly, who are intent on violence, who are looking for the opportunity to steal and set fire to buildings and create a sense of mayhem, whether they're anarchists or part of organised gangs or just feral youth frankly, who fancy a new pair of trainers." EDIT (as added to the article after I posted sections of it): "Metropolitan Police Commander Adrian Hanstock said: "This is not groups of people acting on behalf of communities or with any consent. "This is individuals who are actually attacking communities, businesses, properties and houses and actually causing a huge amount of upset and criminality." Talking about the impact on the capital's image, one year ahead of the Olympic Games, he said: "It's pretty rotten for London, it does not look good." ""We have a low murder rate and this kind of violence is very rare." BBC London's Paraic O'Brien said he had witnessed widespread looting in Brixton." "Press Association photographer Lewis Whyld saw looters battle police at a Currys store in Brixton. He said: "A couple of hundred youths were rioting and looting. Riot police went in to get them out and there was a big fight in the street. "Youths were throwing rocks and bottles and there was a bin on fire. They used a fire extinguisher to push the police back so they could get back into Currys and continue taking things out." Met Police Commander Christine Jones said: "Officers are shocked at the outrageous level of violence directed against them. At least nine officers were injured overnight in addition to the 26 injured on Saturday night. "We will not tolerate this disgraceful violence. The investigation continues to bring these criminals to justice." 'In harm's way' London Fire Brigade said it had been called to a number of fires in Enfield, Brixton and Walthamstow, including a fire at a shop on Brixton Road, which is now under control. The disorder follows rioting in Tottenham which broke out on Saturday night and continued into Sunday morning. A peaceful protest over the fatal shooting by police on Thursday of 29-year-old Mark Duggan descended into violence later in the evening. The unrest spread into nearby Wood Green and Tottenham Hale. Shops were attacked and looted, 26 police officers and three others were injured and buildings and vehicles were set alight. " EDIT: "The violence has also affected public transport and the roads. This includes: Brixton London Underground station closed Tottenham High Road and Bruce Grove closed between Monument Way and the Roundway Lordship Lane closed between the A1010 High Road and Bruce Grove Church Street in Enfield closed between Chase Side and Willow Road Bus routes 67, 123, 141, 243, 259, 279, 349, 318, 341 and W4 are on diversion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyk58 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14439970 At the scene Andy Moore BBC News -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I saw the rioting in Tottenham on Saturday and I saw the rioting last night and it was certainly different in character. What might have been started in Tottenham by youngsters aggrieved about what they saw as police persecution has become something very different in nature. Last night there was a sense that the looting, and violence and disorder across London was being co-ordinated on social media. There were people in their cars, youngsters on bicycles, moving very rapidly, leaving a trail of destruction behind them. As soon as you moved to one location they would move on to the next one. The police were doing their best to catch up with them. You had police vehicles going backwards and forwards, blue lights flashing, riot police coming out of their vehicles. Ten minutes later they'd get back in again and go off to the next location - essentially trying to fight the fires, metaphorically, that were spreading all over London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petit Prince Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I guess I never think of London as having problems like this, it strikes me as oddly out of place. I suppose no big city is perfect, nor insulated from organized crime - but gangsters? In London? Sad to see the melee afterwords, senseless violence never solves anything. Is there a great deal of poverty and discontentment in parts of London? You'll find gang crime in many parts of the UK and certainly in most of the major cities. I'm no expert on this but London seems to be a lot more divided than other cities in the UK. The deprived areas in London are some of the worst in the whole UK. I'm going to be moving to London soon and the one thing I've noticed is that housing prices are more than twice as high while the quality of the houses is in fact worse. It seems to be quite common for students and young professionals to share a room and many people can't afford to rent a flat even if they're working full-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyan Kat Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I knew this would happen again with people copying :nod: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldplay_is_louve. Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Shitty journalism has it's consequences I guess. Feel bad for my friends that live in London. They're afraid to go out at night. :sad:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimixxx Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Seems Hackney is the next target: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 You'll find gang crime in many parts of the UK and certainly in most of the major cities. I'm no expert on this but London seems to be a lot more divided than other cities in the UK. The deprived areas in London are some of the worst in the whole UK. I'm going to be moving to London soon and the one thing I've noticed is that housing prices are more than twice as high while the quality of the houses is in fact worse. It seems to be quite common for students and young professionals to share a room and many people can't afford to rent a flat even if they're working full-time. > Hm, well I figured as with any major city, there's going to be some crime no doubt, but this really caught me off guard. I kept hearing all the rosy news about London being this economically flourishing boom town, with wealth overflowing. There was a National Geo article on it - now that I recall.. So, I just figured that even the working class were benefiting, things getting better on average in all parts.. so that's apparently not the case! When prosperity and hope isn't shared and people aren't paid their fair share, I think it's pretty clear that level of frustration boils over in some serious ways... > Hm, sounds like a familiar problem in most major cities - overpriced housing of inferior quality, and the working class either wind up confined into slums, or forced to move way out of town and commute in. > The housing price / quality issue I can understand, having been a student at a major university once, and seeing the ridiculousness of prices being charged for dilapidated dwellings, profitable for the slum lords of student housing, unfair to us students who could barely afford to rent those hovels. So, we were packed into houses much the same! Where's the justice in it - without government that demands better of owners and makes sure students have the means to afford descent accommodations, it's definitely an unfair situation, I agree. And the trend has been in the past couple of years to keep upping tuition and rent, while student's incomes languish and student debts skyrocket - something's gotta change, that's for sure. You say that even with full-time employment, the pay isn't enough to afford rent - which tells me the income inequity has gotten to the point where it's unbearable, and to demand better pay for an honest day's work is essential - thing's just can't keep going on the way they are. Here too - wages have stagnated when adjusted for inflation, costs continue to skyrocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I don't believe cops, they lie. Sorry the rioters are destroying the private property of individuals not involved - they should be targeting the police families' property, it would be most effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanif94 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I was watching the BBC on my tv and it was really scary to see those images of people setting on fire police cars and houses and breaking into shops to take all what they could get. Very sad, considering London is one of the places that I want to visit the most! :( But I guess violence is everywhere, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howyousawtheworld Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Just turned on BBC News. MASSIVE fire in Croydon. Riots spreading across London and into other cities like Birmingham as well. And Saffire - don't come out with that shit please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyan Kat Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I don't believe cops, they lie. Sorry the rioters are destroying the private property of individuals not involved - they should be targeting the police families' property, it would be most effective. Sorry but that would still not be justified to target the family of the Police :wtf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsu Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Been watching live for an hour or so...shocking scenes. I never expected this, but then this is the first series of riots we've had really since the rise of social networking - it's incredibly easy for people with all sorts of motives to come together to cause trouble. There are always simmering tensions in some of London's poorer boroughs. and even in the 'best' areas, you are never more than a couple of streets away from some very poor and dilapidated housing. Just look at Belsize Park - generally a very very expensive area, but with some completely rundown, drug-riddled social housing just a minute or two's walk away. OMG Croydon is alight now - residential buildings as well as businesses. It's easy to try to make a political point at a time like this but I've been hearing tonight that Haringey (where Tottenham is) and Hackney have seen cuts of 80 or 90% for youth services and facilities due to the government cuts. That's unbelievable, because in these areas if the kids don't have anything else to do, they'll be sucked into drugs and crime. It's that simple. London is one of the crime capitals of the world, I'm really shocked to hear that anyone didn't suspect that. London, Paris, New York (I know it's been cleaned up a lot in the last 20 years but I guess a lot of stuff still goes on), Tokyo...huge amounts of money, power, corruption, organised crime, vast disparities in income and wealth and entitlement... Incredibly sad, and it continues to be a huge worry, but in a sense perhaps this is the shocking wake-up call that as a society we've (imvho) needed for so long. Hoping everyone can stay safe and this madness will end very, very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancyk58 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 It is both shocking and scary what is happening right now. ^ "Hoping everyone can stay safe and this madness will end very, very soon. " I share that hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howyousawtheworld Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Been watching live for an hour or so...shocking scenes. I never expected this, but then this is the first series of riots we've had really since the rise of social networking - it's incredibly easy for people with all sorts of motives to come together to cause trouble. There are always simmering tensions in some of London's poorer boroughs. and even in the 'best' areas, you are never more than a couple of streets away from some very poor and dilapidated housing. Just look at Belsize Park - generally a very very expensive area, but with some completely rundown, drug-riddled social housing just a minute or two's walk away. OMG Croydon is alight now - residential buildings as well as businesses. It's easy to try to make a political point at a time like this but I've been hearing tonight that Haringey (where Tottenham is) and Hackney have seen cuts of 80 or 90% for youth services and facilities due to the government cuts. That's unbelievable, because in these areas if the kids don't have anything else to do, they'll be sucked into drugs and crime. It's that simple. London is one of the crime capitals of the world, I'm really shocked to hear that anyone didn't suspect that. London, Paris, New York (I know it's been cleaned up a lot in the last 20 years but I guess a lot of stuff still goes on), Tokyo...huge amounts of money, power, corruption, organised crime, vast disparities in income and wealth and entitlement...it seems obvious to me. Incredibly sad, and it continues to be a huge worry, but in a sense perhaps this is the shocking wake-up call that as a society we've (imvho) needed for so long. Hoping everyone can stay safe and this madness will end very, very soon. Not clever. Not clever at all. I agree that cuts need to be made to our public services but in that area and on that level it's absurd. At the same time I wonder how the Tories are cutting services in the more affluent areas in the South of England and from the evidence I've seen so far it's not good. Poorer areas up and down the UK are getting cut while the affluent areas aren't. And the Tories are trying to present themselves as having changed? There's clearly some severe social problems that have not been tackled by the UK government of the past 30 years. They may have been able to keep a lid on it but this seriously needs to be addressed now. The likes of areas such as Hackney and Croydon are shockingly deprived areas of London. It's a major problem and an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If you work for an agency that steals, and you use a fraction of the loot to gain popular support, I have little sympathy for you when public opinion turns against you. The youth does not vote. They are worthless, as far as politicians are concerned. Tax cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyan Kat Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Everywhere has received cuts it just seems that the young people are so much worse off and in poorer areas it really does make a big difference something needs to change and Cameron really should come back off his holiday in a crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howyousawtheworld Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Everywhere has received cuts it just seems that the young people are so much worse off and in poorer areas it really does make a big difference something needs to change and Cameron really should come back off his holiday in a crisis. It seems he's doing that just now. He'll be chairing a COBRA meeting tomorrow at no.10. I'm thinking George Osborne will be flying back this week as well if the global financial crisis continues but that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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