I doesn't exist. It's not a phobia. Just because according to someone's religion it's wrong, doesn't me it's a phobia. I've never met a single person who was afraid of homosexual people. To say they're intolerant is also an over exaggeration most of the time. I might not think it's right for anyone to be gay, but I have never said anything hateful or anything to them. You may or may not have guessed where I stood on this, but I've never even mentioned it.

 

ooh can you explain your views further? I'm interested.

 

i do think a lot of people overreact and take opinions far too personally. There was a gay marriage debate at my school a few months ago and it was chaos. People arguing against it didn't get a chance to say more than a few words without someone yelling over them

i mean everyone was 13-18 which doesn't help but you know

 

 

ive been trying to write something properly for like 10 minutes but none of it makes sense but what i was trying to say is i am gay or bi or something and i dont think i am abnormal or anything and i am lucky to live in quite a liberal community where being gay isn't something that's frowned upon. the majority of NZ is still pretty homophobic but what are you gonna do people suckkk

 

what

Well, as a Christian, I believe God created man and he then created the woman for the the man. He did not create 2 men or 2 woman, but 1 man and 1 woman. He intended men to marry women, or he would have made everyone the same. So, in being homosexual, you are going agaisnt what God intended. And it also says things throughout the Bible about it being wrong. I don't know, but have I seemed "homophobic" or "intolerant" to you guys? I'm wondering, because the vast majority of people I know have the same opinion as me, and are about as "homophobic" as I am. I can be around you, I can be friends with you, but I will not pretend to think it's right or support it.

 

Well, if that explains my views a bit better.

Where I live there are quite a lot of homophobic people, but thats more because we live in a rural community and I only know two people who are lesbians so people just aren't really exposed to these things so much and they often have to deal with homophobic remarks. What annoys me most is that religion still has so much influence on our government when most of our country would probably say they weren't religious at all and would want equality.

hmm I understand your point but you should know that if people love each other they don't like it to be judged on that.

I don't think you are like this but there are people in my country that beat up holebis, almost kill them. Just because they hold hands on the street

People can also be very insulting and "intolerant" and hurtful towards people who share my views, as well...

 

EDIT: of coarse that doesn't justify beating someone up. But I just want you guys to know, true Christians would never insult or abuse a homosexual, but they often get labled as "homophobes" or "intolerant", just because they don't agree with it, an often get awful insults and treatment from others.

it pisses me of

As a not Christian I believe in love. It should not matter what sex this is about. For me marriage is not about being faithful to God, but it's a bond between two people that show to eachother and to others that they made a promise to stay faithful to eachother, in good and bad times. It's about respect and caring.

 

and I know homophobes and also people that are intolerant. Already making a distinguishment between kissing eachother on the mouth in public or holding hands in public is for me intolerance. I understand if you don't like people making out in public in general, but don't make the distinguishment between 'oh they are boy and girl so it's okay' and 'iiiiiew fags!' or 'I don't go to that pub because it's where gay people go'.

Why does racism, sexism, speciesism etc. exist?

 

It's human nature to put down anything that's different from ourselves.

Aaand you've got your answer, Fran.

What annoys me most is that religion still has so much influence on our government when most of our country would probably say they weren't religious at all and would want equality.

*high five* That's kinda the same in France too! :cheesy:

 

One of the current big debates in my country is same-sex marriage (because yeah the European Union and the debts are sooo boring, religious extremists fighting with gay people make up much funnier stories ya know :awesome:), because the government is trying to get marriage equality. The thing is, France is, like, one important country in Catholicism and its history. I believe a majority of people in France are catholic, but, as Kat said about her country, in mine, well many people aren't really religious anymore :| I mean, I was raised catholic, so were my brother and sister, yet they're not really religious people, and I'm not entirely either (by that I mean that I don't agree with everything the Church says, I'm all for gay marriage for instance). However, somehow, when same sex marriage is debated, suddenly France is back to being this important Catholic country, even though it's been a century since State and Church are officially, by law, separated (LOL FRENCH LOGIC :awesome: ). As you may have noticed, the difference between Kat was saying and what I'm saying, is that here the "problem" doesn't come from the government, but from some people we hear a lot these days.

The fact that God doesn't want it that way shouldn't be an argument in this debate (in France, I mean), and I'm very annoyed whenever on the news we see people shouting that during protests again same-sex marriage. I mean, when it comes to other stuff, most people (and probably some that you see protesting against same-sex marriage) in France go: "secularism is very important and should come first regarding the government's decisions". YEAH RIGHT.

ANYWAY.

 

I find it too bad that the interpretation of the fact that there's a man and a woman created by God is that 2 men or women shouldn't get together. :( Like, why would it mean that EVERYONE has to be straight ? The world isn't black or white, it's grey. God created us all different, unique individuals, after all. Idk :disappointed:

I guess that interpretation also comes from what our wise Dee said. What's different is freakin scary and therefore must be bad.

As a not Christian I believe in love. It should not matter what sex this is about. For me marriage is not about being faithful to God, but it's a bond between two people that show to eachother and to others that they made a promise to stay faithful to eachother, in good and bad times. It's about respect and caring.

 

and I know homophobes and also people that are intolerant. Already making a distinguishment between kissing eachother on the mouth in public or holding hands in public is for me intolerance. I understand if you don't like people making out in public in general, but don't make the distinguishment between 'oh they are boy and girl so it's okay' and 'iiiiiew fags!' or 'I don't go to that pub because it's where gay people go'.

I'm a Christian and I 100% agree with you :nod:

^ are you saying that in believing what I do, That I have such an ignorant view as "What's different is freakin scary and therefore must be bad."

Well maybe it's because I aldosterone take verses like this super seriously:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" Leviticus 18:22

 

I hope that this gives you a little more insight into where I stand. I'm not writing this to try to convince anyone that it's wrong, but because I want to show you why I believe what I do. Please don't get too angry at me...

^ are you saying that in believing what I do, That I have such an ignorant view as "What's different is freakin scary and therefore must be bad."

Well maybe it's because I aldosterone take verses like this super seriously:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" Leviticus 18:22

 

I hope that this gives you a little more insight into where I stand. I'm not writing this to try to convince anyone that it's wrong, but because I want to show you why I believe what I do. Please don't get too angry at me...

You believe it because it's written in the Bible, and you take what's written there very seriously, as I understand. Is that correct ?

I'm just wondering: why is it written there ? what made Leviticus say/write it ? As you know, it was written in quite ancient times, and I believe that perhaps his view on homosexuality was influenced by the society he lived in, and we have to admit that, even if what I said was a bit of a caricature, societies have always been afraid of what's different.

Please, understand that I'm not insulting you, but more, like, questioning and wondering about some messages that are written in the Bible (and I hope doing that isn't insulting you, if you think so then I'm sorry).

You believe it because it's written in the Bible, and you take what's written there very seriously, as I understand. Is that correct ?

I'm just wondering: why is it written there ? what made Leviticus say/write it ? As you know, it was written in quite ancient times, and I believe that perhaps his view on homosexuality was influenced by the society he lived in, and we have to admit that, even if what I said was a bit of a caricature, societies have always been afraid of what's different.

Please, understand that I'm not insulting you, but more, like, questioning and wondering about some messages that are written in the Bible (and I hope doing that isn't insulting you, if you think so then I'm sorry).

Well, at the beginning of the chapter in says "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying..." So this is God saying this. And when God says something is an "abomination" I take it very seriously. :|

I wasn't insulted. I just know that on a forum like this, I'm gonna be the odd one out, so I can't get insulted too easily.

But you're are right, people often are afraid of what's different. Though I fear nothing but God.

Well, at the beginning of the chapter in says "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying..." So this is God saying this. And when God says something is an "abomination" I take it very seriously. :|

I wasn't insulted. I just know that on a forum like this, I'm gonna be the odd one out, so I can't get insulted too easily.

:surprised: Oh ok, I see.

But right there is my problem with the Bible: as a kid, the one thing I was told to remember, the main idea of our religion, was that God has delivered mainly a message of love. Now, with that in mind, how am I supposed to trust that Levicitus guy who said God said those exact words to Moses? That's confusing to me, because that particular message isn't really a message of love. :|

^ are you saying that in believing what I do, That I have such an ignorant view as "What's different is freakin scary and therefore must be bad."

Well maybe it's because I aldosterone take verses like this super seriously:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" Leviticus 18:22

 

I hope that this gives you a little more insight into where I stand. I'm not writing this to try to convince anyone that it's wrong, but because I want to show you why I believe what I do. Please don't get too angry at me...

 

On Leviticus ...

 

"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him."

(Leviticus 20:9)

Let's kill them all!

 

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

I guess I'll get myself a Danish slave then. :nod:

 

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

Men, no more shaving! It is an abomination! :angry:

 

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

Hmm, I'll guess I'll throw away half of my wardrobe now.

 

Unless you decide to stick to 100% of Leviticus (which is impossible imo), don't quote parts of it and name it as a reason to discrimate against people with a different sexuality.

Well, at the beginning of the chapter in says "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying..." So this is God saying this.

 

Are you actually joking?

On Leviticus ...

 

"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him."

(Leviticus 20:9)

Let's kill them all!

 

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

I guess I'll get myself a Danish slave then. :nod:

 

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

Men, no more shaving! It is an abomination! :angry:

 

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

Hmm, I'll guess I'll throw away half of my wardrobe now.

 

Unless you decide to stick to 100% of Leviticus (which is impossible imo), don't quote parts of it and name it as a reason to discrimate against people with a different sexuality.

See, clearly influenced by the society he lived in, what I was talking about, right there! :nod:

:surprised: Oh ok, I see.

But right there is my problem with the Bible: as a kid, the one thing I was told to remember, the main idea of our religion, was that God has delivered mainly a message of love. Now, with that in mind, how am I supposed to trust that Levicitus guy who said God said those exact words to Moses? That's confusing to me, because that particular message isn't really a message of love. :|

God is a loving God, but he is deceived as so many more things as well, Just, jealous, almighty, righteous judge, perfect, powerful, as well as, loving and merciful. Imagine a good parent, who sets rules for their child, because they love him. Whether the child knows why the rules have been given or not, they should follow them. If the child breaks one of the rules, the parents will give him a loving warning, if the child continues to break the rule, the parent disciplines the child, not because the parent doesn't love him, but because he disobeyed.

See, clearly influenced by the society he lived in, what I was talking about, right there! :nod:

 

Yes, and I shall come to France now to take you as my slave because my male and female slaves are to come from the nations around me. God said so!

 

I quite like this part of Leviticus too:

"18 For whatever man he be that has a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that has a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, 19 Or a man that is broken footed, or broken handed, 20 Or hunch back, or a dwarf, or that has a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or has his stones broken; 21 No man that has a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come near to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he has a blemish; he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God. 22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23 Only he shall not go in to the veil, nor come near to the altar, because he has a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them. 24 And Moses told it to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel."

(Leviticus 21:21)

Homophobia exists because people tend to discriminate what's different. I'm kinda christian (I don't go to church that often but my whole family is and most of my values are based on it), and the basic message on the New Testament is that Jesus told us to love each other and for me that incluedes all people no matter what are the differences...

God is a loving God, but he is deceived as so many more things as well, Just, jealous, almighty, righteous judge, perfect, powerful, as well as, loving and merciful. Imagine a good parent, who sets rules for their child, because they love him. Whether the child knows why the rules have been given or not, they should follow them. If the child breaks one of the rules, the parents will give him a loving warning, if the child continues to break the rule, the parent disciplines the child, not because the parent doesn't love him, but because he disobeyed.

 

I don't think you answered the real question that everyone wonders about creationists, you said that that the Lord told this to Moses, as said by Leviticus, you didn't explain what credibility Leviticus has, and therefore you have no reason to take the bible literally.

 

It's almost as if you treat Leviticus' word as the word of God, which you should be stoned for.

On Leviticus ...

 

"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him."

(Leviticus 20:9)

Let's kill them all!

 

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

I guess I'll get myself a Danish slave then. :nod:

 

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

Men, no more shaving! It is an abomination! :angry:

 

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

Hmm, I'll guess I'll throw away half of my wardrobe now.

 

Unless you decide to stick to 100% of Leviticus (which is impossible imo), don't quote parts of it and name it as a reason to discrimate against people with a different sexuality.

He doesn't say any of these things is an abomination.....But I'll get to you when I'm a little less tired...

God is a loving God, but he is deceived as so many more things as well, Just, jealous, almighty, righteous judge, perfect, powerful, as well as, loving and merciful. Imagine a good parent, who sets rules for their child, because they love him. Whether the child knows why the rules have been given or not, they should follow them. If the child breaks one of the rules, the parents will give him a loving warning, if the child continues to break the rule, the parent disciplines the child, not because the parent doesn't love him, but because he disobeyed.

I understand that, but, first, why setting that rule ? It's fine that you personally don't question that rule, but I feel the need to, if I want to understand the whole thing. And then again, how am I supposed to trust that Levicitus guy, as from Imke has quoted, he's clearly influenced by his society and most importantly, and there is something very wrong in that (and it's why I got distant with the Church), it seems to me that he used the opportunity of sharing a message of God not to actually do that but to give us his personal views on things that I don't think God actually cares about (the length of the hair for instance, come on), and impose his own idea of how society should be. If I read the Bible, I don't care of how he thinks society should be, I care about what God and Jesus think, you know?

 

Aaaaand Propsector said exactly what I think. Thank you. :nod:

I don't think you answered the real question that everyone wonders about creationists, you said that that the Lord told this to Moses, as said by Leviticus, you didn't explain what credibility Leviticus has, and therefore you have no reason to take the bible literally.

 

It's almost as if you treat Leviticus' word as the word of God, which you should be stoned for.

Did you know, that the old testament has been proved quite hisorically accurate. And told you, I'm not trying to convince you guys of anything, I'm trying to explain what I believe and why.

He doesn't say any of these things is an abomination.....But I'll get to you when I'm a little less tired...

 

Okay, so you can wear clothes made of 50% cotton and 50% polyester because it's not an abomination ... even though what's written in Leviticus is the word of god and he said "Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material."

 

Yeah, makes total sense.

 

Here's what is an abomination (according to Leviticus and therefore in your logic also to god) though: http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

I'm catholic, but I don't practice anymore. I didn't enter in a Church since 11 years. So, what God say about gay, to me, it's totally a joke. In Canada, gay marriage is allowed. That's fine, I didn't have problem with it. There's only one thing I can't stand about gay, it's gay who hide behind woman. I mean, some man who don't assume their and hide it with marrying woman, have kids etc and than 15 years later, finally decide to assume his homosexuality. That totally piss me off. I know a friend who lived that, and it's was very hard for her.