Seasonings prohibited on restaurants' tables of Montevideo

[fcam]

The Municipality of Montevideo, Uruguay plans to implement a healthy-actions plan among which stands the prohibition for mayonnaise, ketchup and salt to be on the table of restaurants and bars.

A little basket which contains bread, salt, mayonnaise and ketchup is usually standing on every table of restaurants. The Municipality wants to prohibit this to be on the table all the time in order not to "temptate" the costumers of eating them. The seasoning would be on the table by the request of the costumer only.

They state that "in Uruguay we have hypertension and obesity since childhood" and that this is due to "wrong nutritional habits".

Also, they pretend to force restaurants too have fruits instead of bread in that little basket, since "eating fruit before the meal is much healthier than after".

 

 

(here's the link to the article, but it's in Spanish http://www.elobservador.com.uy/noticia/254458/imm-quiere-prohibir-sal-mayonesa-y-ketchup-en-la-mesa-de-los-restaurantes/)

 

What do you think of this plan? Is it totally crazy or it does make sense?

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Fucking ridiculous.

[Captain Crieff]

fruit instead of bread? :huh:

 

I think this is going too far. Ok, too much salt isn't healthy and all, but people are not that stupid, the government doesn't have to protect us against ourselves. We can use our brain and decide for ourselves if we want some salt with that or not.

[fcam]

^Haha yeah that's what I think. They have gone too far. :nod:

Btw, they pretend to put fruit besides bread on the tables for people to eat them as snacks before the actual meal.

[Prince Myshkin]

If it is still available then there is no harm. These kind of things are called 'nudges'. They can be very popular. With how you described it is not a ban, so there is no real issue as far as I can see.

 

Society needs help with these kind of things. Obesity is a problem. One thing I prefer in France over the UK is that you get water for the table automatically. It usually leads to me simply drinking water, therefore staying healthier. I have the option to buy other drinks, I have my choice, but since the water is there for free it seems fine. Where I live you have to request water, and though it is still free, you just end up ordering a fizzy drink or an orange juice or something else. You spend more money and it's not as healthy.

 

 

 

Other examples of nudging are:

 

Opt out organ donation - since many people don't bother signing up to it even though they would do if they had the motivation, some places introduce an opt out system, rather than an opt out. The choice isn't taken away and people have the option not to participate, but with the amount of organs we need it makes sense.

 

Public toilet urinal cleanliness - I think it started in Europe, but they found that if you put an image of a fly in a urinal then cleanliness in the toilets improves dramatically. The visual stimulus gives the person something to focus their aim on.

 

Speeding around corners - There are some people that use a technique to reduce speeding and therefore accidents. When you approach a corner in an area where it is possible to speed there are usually stripes at the side of the road to highlight the fact that a bend is coming. By making the stripes closer together it creates the illusion that you are speeding up and so the driver automatically slows to a speed slower than they would normally take the corner. It has reduced accidents and deaths significantly.

 

 

 

Sorry if I didn't explain those things well, but basically, these things happen all the time and are often for the benefit of the people. The key is not to take the choice away from the person, but make it easier to do the right thing. I don't see why that is ridiculous.

[Prince Myshkin]

One thing you have to keep in mind is that this does not just come down to individuals owning a decision. The option of bread should still be there (and I'd be surprised if it wasn't) but these things go further. The children of these people will be genetically affected. We need to plan for the future and by doing it in a way that doesn't restrict choice but helps people make a healthier decision, then I don't see the problem. The developed world has a huge problem with obesity that it is not coping with. Small things like this could be crucial in curbing it.

[Captain Crieff]

If it is still available then there is no harm. These kind of things are called 'nudges'. They can be very popular. With how you described it is not a ban, so there is no real issue as far as I can see.

 

Society needs help with these kind of things. Obesity is a problem. One thing I prefer in France over the UK is that you get water for the table automatically. It usually leads to me simply drinking water, therefore staying healthier. I have the option to buy other drinks, I have my choice, but since the water is there for free it seems fine. Where I live you have to request water, and though it is still free, you just end up ordering a fizzy drink or an orange juice or something else. You spend more money and it's not as healthy.

 

I agree with you, as long as the salt is still available, ok, but if they really say "no, no salt for you, it's unhealthy, you may not eat that" it goes too far in my opinion.

Other examples of nudging are:

 

Opt out organ donation - since many people don't bother signing up to it even though they would do if they had the motivation, some places introduce an opt out system, rather than an opt out. The choice isn't taken away and people have the option not to participate, but with the amount of organs we need it makes sense.

:nod: we have that here in Belgium, much better indeed

[fcam]

If it is still available then there is no harm. These kind of things are called 'nudges'. They can be very popular. With how you described it is not a ban, so there is no real issue as far as I can see.

 

Society needs help with these kind of things. Obesity is a problem. One thing I prefer in France over the UK is that you get water for the table automatically. It usually leads to me simply drinking water, therefore staying healthier. I have the option to buy other drinks, I have my choice, but since the water is there for free it seems fine. Where I live you have to request water, and though it is still free, you just end up ordering a fizzy drink or an orange juice or something else. You spend more money and it's not as healthy.

 

 

 

Other examples of nudging are:

 

Opt out organ donation - since many people don't bother signing up to it even though they would do if they had the motivation, some places introduce an opt out system, rather than an opt out. The choice isn't taken away and people have the option not to participate, but with the amount of organs we need it makes sense.

 

Public toilet urinal cleanliness - I think it started in Europe, but they found that if you put an image of a fly in a urinal then cleanliness in the toilets improves dramatically. The visual stimulus gives the person something to focus their aim on.

 

Speeding around corners - There are some people that use a technique to reduce speeding and therefore accidents. When you approach a corner in an area where it is possible to speed there are usually stripes at the side of the road to highlight the fact that a bend is coming. By making the stripes closer together it creates the illusion that you are speeding up and so the driver automatically slows to a speed slower than they would normally take the corner. It has reduced accidents and deaths significantly.

 

 

 

Sorry if I didn't explain those things well, but basically, these things happen all the time and are often for the benefit of the people. The key is not to take the choice away from the person, but make it easier to do the right thing. I don't see why that is ridiculous.

 

I see your point, and I think that it makes a lot of sense. We're used to nudgings here, but only about smoking. I think that sometimes it may seem a bit radical. Food is a complicated issue, but maybe it will make us healthier.

 

One thing you have to keep in mind is that this does not just come down to individuals owning a decision. The option of bread should still be there (and I'd be surprised if it wasn't) but these things go further. The children of these people will be genetically affected. We need to plan for the future and by doing it in a way that doesn't restrict choice but helps people make a healthier decision, then I don't see the problem. The developed world has a huge problem with obesity that it is not coping with. Small things like this could be crucial in curbing it.

Yes, I think that as long as it helps to make the right decision and it doesn't restrict is ok. We do need to stop obesity.

We're a under-developed country so obesity is not such a big problem here as in the US or so, but it is still very worrying.

[Prince Myshkin]

I agree with you, as long as the salt is still available, ok, but if they really say "no, no salt for you, it's unhealthy, you may not eat that" it goes too far in my opinion.

 

:nod: we have that here in Belgium, much better indeed

 

Well the opening post said it just wouldn't be on the table. It would only be available by request. People who want it will ask for it. Some people who would have had it had it been so easy to get will not have it, either because they don't think about it or because it will make the choice of having it an active decision. This is a good thing in my opinion.

 

If it was banned then it would not be a good thing.

[Prince Myshkin]

I see your point, and I think that it makes a lot of sense. We're used to nudgings here, but only about smoking. I think that sometimes it may seem a bit radical. Food is a complicated issue, but maybe it will make us healthier.

 

 

Yes, I think that as long as it helps to make the right decision and it doesn't restrict is ok. We do need to stop obesity.

We're a under-developed country so obesity is not such a big problem here as in the US or so, but it is still very worrying.

 

Hopefully by implementing these things now, whilst not banning things, you will not follow in their footsteps. It's a slippery slope.

 

My country needs more nudging on alcohol.

[fcam]

Well the opening post said it just wouldn't be on the table. It would only be available by request. People who want it will ask for it. Some people who would have had it had it been so easy to get will not have it, either because they don't think about it or because it will make the choice of having it an active decision. This is a good thing in my opinion.

 

If it was banned then it would not be a good thing.

 

They just want it not to be on the table, it's not about banning seasonings.

 

 

Hopefully by implementing these things now, whilst not banning things, you will not follow in their footsteps. It's a slippery slope.

 

My country needs more nudging on alcohol.

 

Yeah, indeed. :nod:

 

Yes, here we need that too! They should try harder in making poeple aware of the consequences of alcohol imo

Also, the law says that it can't be sold to people under 18, but they sell it to pretty much everyone.

[Prince Myshkin]

The alcohol industry has been trading off the notion that wine is good for the heart for a long time here. When you look at the scientific evidence behind it, this stems from one paper which found that an eighth of a glass of wine a day showed benefits to males in their 40's and 50's. That is all. Not only a toxin, except for specifically to the heart and in that amount, but only for a very minor portion of society.

 

This misconception has enabled a lot of people to drink in situations when perhaps they wouldn't if they knew the facts. Smoking gets a bad rap but alcohol is not far behind at all.

 

Of course banning alcohol would be ridiculous (it's a cultural thing which does have social benefits, though not physical benefits) and I do still drink occasionally (and used to drink often - never to an extent where it was a problem: I didn't cut down because I had a problem, for example) so I don't hate it, but I genuinely hope in terms of advertising that it goes the same way as tobacco. It's a case of fully understanding what we are doing to our bodies and making it easier for people to abstain. It's a lot easier to abstain from smoking than it used to be (I'm talking decades and decades ago here). Right now if somebody doesn't drink it's seen as very strange.

[Coeurli]

The Municipality of Montevideo, Uruguay plans to implement a healthy-actions plan among which stands the prohibition for mayonnaise, ketchup and salt to be on the table of restaurants and bars.

A little basket which contains bread, salt, mayonnaise and ketchup is usually standing on every table of restaurants. The Municipality wants to prohibit this to be on the table all the time in order not to "temptate" the costumers of eating them. The seasoning would be on the table by the request of the costumer only.

They state that "in Uruguay we have hypertension and obesity since childhood" and that this is due to "wrong nutritional habits".

Also, they pretend to force restaurants too have fruits instead of bread in that little basket, since "eating fruit before the meal is much healthier than after".

 

 

(here's the link to the article, but it's in Spanish http://www.elobservador.com.uy/noticia/254458/imm-quiere-prohibir-sal-mayonesa-y-ketchup-en-la-mesa-de-los-restaurantes/)

 

What do you think of this plan? Is it totally crazy or it does make sense?

Restaurants in France automatically serve bread at your table, for free, while you wait for your order (which, to be honest, is the thing i love the most about French restaurants) and sure bread isn't the healthiest snack, but damnit France isn't necessarily a fat country either.

 

I do understand finding solutions to help people have better, healthier food habits, but I find that rather extreme.

 

I do tend to agree about the mayonnaise and ketchup being on demand only, as clearly you don't need them while waiting for your plate and they are indeed pretty fat, so yeah maybe i'd agree with that, as long as customers can still have them whenever they want to, of course.

 

However overall I don't think that this decision would have the slightest impact on its own, because I'm guessing that most people don't go to restaurants everyday for every meal, and most importantly, fighting obesity isn't just about healthy food habits, it's also about encouraging people to exercise more. Eating less mayonnaise or bread sure helps, but if you still do that at home and you never exercise, it doesn't have any effect on your health.

 

Anyway, it does seem crazy to me, but then again i maybe biased by my culture (edit: and my love for bread).

[Prince Myshkin]

It's not the solution. It's part of the solution. I really don't see why anybody would find it crazy. The option is still there and it is something that is free in the first place.

[Arantza]

I think it's a good idea. They are not banning them, they are still there. And I believe it can work.

 

Mexico City has removed the salt from the tables in restaurants (if you ask for it they will bring it). As they said some people out of a habit put salt in their food before even tasting it (my mother being guilty of that sometimes) and that is going to help to reduce the amount of unnecessary salt that they consume.

In my opinion they should do that in the rest of the country.

[Prince Myshkin]

I wish this wasn't a hidden poll.

[fcam]

Anyway, it does seem crazy to me, but then again i maybe biased by my culture (edit: and my love for bread).

 

Yeah, must be that :nod:

Here it sounds a little crazy too, but I guess it's because of that

 

It's not the solution. It's part of the solution. I really don't see why anybody would find it crazy. The option is still there and it is something that is free in the first place.

 

If you put it that way, it sounds very right

 

I wish this wasn't a hidden poll.

What?

 

I don't know about polls, so I may have configurated it wrong.... :confused:

Please tell me how to fix it if there's something wrong : )

[The Final Track]

I don't see the problem. All you have to do is ask and they'll bring you the basket. It's a good move by Montevideo.

[Captain Crieff]

Indeed, now that I actually have thought about it, there's no problem at all, they should do it everywhere.

Can I change my vote in the poll? :confused:

[Prince Myshkin]

Yeah, must be that :nod:

What?

 

I don't know about polls, so I may have configurated it wrong.... :confused:

Please tell me how to fix it if there's something wrong : )

 

It's fine as it is, don't worry. Leave it as a private poll. There are positives and negatives of private polls. Positives are that people vote honestly and don't get pressured, negative is you can't see what people have voted for.

 

When you make the poll, click on the section that says to make the votes visible to the users, or don't click on the one that says it keeps the voters hidden (whichever way it is).

 

It's not really important though.

[Petit Prince]

I don't like the idea. It's gonna be a pain for the customers and the staff, especially when the place is busy and I don't think it will help to tackle obesity. I can't talk about Uruguay but I worked in a fast food place for a little while when I was a student and customers always asked for extra ketchup, mayonnaise etc and unfortunately it was often people who were already overweight.

[Coeurli]

It's fine as it is, don't worry. Leave it as a private poll. There are positives and negatives of private polls. Positives are that people vote honestly and don't get pressured, negative is you can't see what people have voted for.

 

When you make the poll, click on the section that says to make the votes visible to the users, or don't click on the one that says it keeps the voters hidden (whichever way it is).

 

It's not really important though.

Why would you need to see who voted for what though? :thinking:

[Prince Myshkin]

Why would you need to see who voted for what though? :thinking:

It's always interesting to see how people voted. No real reason.

[Prince Myshkin]

I don't like the idea. It's gonna be a pain for the customers and the staff, especially when the place is busy and I don't think it will help to tackle obesity. I can't talk about Uruguay but I worked in a fast food place for a little while when I was a student and customers always asked for extra ketchup, mayonnaise etc and unfortunately it was often people who were already overweight.

 

How much of a pain is it really? And what else do you suggest in order to tackle obesity? Of course it's not going to stop all obese people ordering it, but it can still reduce the numbers who do. The issue cannot simply be ignored. It isn't ethical to ignore it.

[fcam]

It's fine as it is, don't worry. Leave it as a private poll. There are positives and negatives of private polls. Positives are that people vote honestly and don't get pressured, negative is you can't see what people have voted for.

 

When you make the poll, click on the section that says to make the votes visible to the users, or don't click on the one that says it keeps the voters hidden (whichever way it is).

 

It's not really important though.

 

 

Ohh I see. I didn't know that, thanks!