I thought I had already replied to this. :huh:

 

Interesting that it's been brought up in this topic how this idea is a 'nudging' for society, well wasn't the idea of making these things automatically available at every table a 'nudging' in the first place? Granted, that was the option of restaurants, and now this is a law which may seem a bit strict, but it's not really a 'nudging' in the right direction so much as a prevention of nudging in the wrong direction. Your food should already be seasoned appropriately, and if you like ketchup or mayonnaise it's of course still available, but by having everything readily available for use while you sit there waiting, it will nudge many people into using it. I've gotten out of this habit but if there was salt right beside where I happen to have my hands for eating, I'd automatically pick it up, without even trying the food, even at home if the salt is a few feet away I wouldn't think about reaching over for it. Stupid, I know, but I think a lot of people are the same without realising it.

 

Also, I've seen lots of restaurants that don't bother with having these things readily available (Especially ketchup and mayo which is rare to see just sitting at a table, but even salt isn't either a lot of the time) and I don't recall anyone saying anything about it, it's usually available somewhere else or you can ask for it (Even in the article that the topic starter posted, it showed a picture not of a table with condiments on them but more of a central place for anyone in the restaurant to go to for them).

A good point about nudging there. There are nudges that aren't beneficial for people, such as placing junk food at the tills at supermarkets to encourage impulse purchasing. Good for business, bad for health.

 

But placing these things out in the first place, free of charge, was not a nudge as such. I think it was more convenience. I guess you could say that it was linked to making the business as convenient as possible and therefore more likely to attract custom, but I wouldn't say it was nudge on the same level as junk food by the tills or the removal of sauces from tables to improve health.

 

I guess in a world of capitalism there are few things that are not there to part you with your money and influence your behaviour.

I don't think it was an intentional nudge, like you say it's just for convenience, restaurants don't benefit from people using their salt and ketchup for free- of course the cost of this spread out is of very little significance, but they certainly don't gain anything in the same way supermarkets do from the example you mentioned.

How much of a pain is it really? And what else do you suggest in order to tackle obesity? Of course it's not going to stop all obese people ordering it, but it can still reduce the numbers who do. The issue cannot simply be ignored. It isn't ethical to ignore it.

 

Well I'd find it pretty annoying if the pub's busy and you already had wait for ages to get served and then you have to wait for another 5 minutes to get ketchup/ salt or whatever else you want.

 

 

I'm not sure what's the best way to tackle obesity, all I can say (from my limited experience) is the people aren't afraid to ask if they want something.

 

I think it's important that kids learn about healthy eating at school. You can get reduced gym/ sports club memberships in some countries if you can prove that you regularly go. I think it's a very good idea as it promotes a healthier lifestyle but at the end of the day it's still down to personal choice of course.

Well I'd find it pretty annoying if the pub's busy and you already had wait for ages to get served and then you have to wait for another 5 minutes to get ketchup/ salt or whatever else you want.

 

 

I'm not sure what's the best way to tackle obesity, all I can say (from my limited experience) is the people aren't afraid to ask if they want something.

 

I think it's important that kids learn about healthy eating at school. You can get reduced gym/ sports club memberships in some countries if you can prove that you regularly go. I think it's a very good idea as it promotes a healthier lifestyle but at the end of the day it's still down to personal choice of course.

 

You can do all of these things.

 

Personal choice will always win and people who really want bad things will have them. And they are allowed to have them. But I know I would appreciate it not being there. As I said, when in France I drank mainly water when out eating as it was there. much healthier. I would never do that in England. For some these measures will really make a difference. As will education. As will other opportunities to improve health.

 

I think waiting a little longer is worth it for everyone. Obesity is spiralling.

 

I'd advise you go to a well run pub where service is good if it riles you that much to wait a bit longer.

I don't recall ever eating a decent meal in a pub anyway. Like, ever.

You can do all of these things.

 

Personal choice will always win and people who really want bad things will have them. And they are allowed to have them. But I know I would appreciate it not being there. As I said, when in France I drank mainly water when out eating as it was there. much healthier. I would never do that in England. For some these measures will really make a difference. As will education. As will other opportunities to improve health.

 

I think waiting a little longer is worth it for everyone. Obesity is spiralling.

 

I'd advise you go to a well run pub where service is good if it riles you that much to wait a bit longer.

 

I usually get tap water unless I'm having wine (in which case I'd probably still get some water as well) because fizzy drinks are generally overpriced. I like the idea of having it on the table though as it makes it more convenient for customers.

 

As for pubs, most places in central London are very busy.

Well I guess we disagree.

Convenience is good but not in this case.

I went to a restaurant today (not really a restaurant, the kind of thing with huge playground outside, I don't know how it's called in English); after my meal I was thirsty, so thought I'd drink some water, but it cost € 2.10, for 20 cl... ridiculous.

 

So my mum said "oh hey, we're not gonna pay 2 euros for some water, just wait til we're home then!" I did that and drank 2 glasses of water at home.

 

So water costs as much as lemonade there, fucking crazy.

I went to a restaurant today (not really a restaurant, the kind of thing with huge playground outside, I don't know how it's called in English); after my meal I was thirsty, so thought I'd drink some water, but it cost € 2.10, for 20 cl... ridiculous.

 

So my mum said "oh hey, we're not gonna pay 2 euros for some water, just wait til we're home then!" I did that and drank 2 glasses of water at home.

 

So water costs as much as lemonade there, fucking crazy.

 

2.10 € for 200ml of water?? :wtf:

That's way too much. Here they cost around 1.25 € or so :huh:

It should be free.

^Haha, indeed.

It should be free.

 

legally restaurants and things here have to give it free here but they will try and sell you a bottle if you dont specify a cup

Here, in my city, salt, pepper, vinager, oil and such are not offered in restaurants. You can ask to the waiter/tress if you can have some and that's it, but you have to ask first. I have never seen mayonnaise, ketchup or mustard in restaurants only in fast food outlets.

I went to a restaurant today (not really a restaurant, the kind of thing with huge playground outside, I don't know how it's called in English); after my meal I was thirsty, so thought I'd drink some water, but it cost € 2.10, for 20 cl... ridiculous.

 

So my mum said "oh hey, we're not gonna pay 2 euros for some water, just wait til we're home then!" I did that and drank 2 glasses of water at home.

 

So water costs as much as lemonade there, fucking crazy.

 

Can you not request tap water?

 

legally restaurants and things here have to give it free here but they will try and sell you a bottle if you dont specify a cup

 

Yeah, this.

Can you not request tap water?

 

I don't know, probably...

Anyhow, if the water had been on the table, I would've drank water, now I didn't and I almost ordered another lemonade.

 

btw, I have never seen ketchup or mayo on the table in a restaurant either.

I did not eat at any restaurant here in the past 3 months so i don't know if seasonings are there or not, but still, i think this is so fucking ridiculous.

I did not eat at any restaurant here in the past 3 months so i don't know if seasonings are there or not, but still, i think this is so fucking ridiculous.

 

Even after reading this thread?