And as for the Al-Qaeda thing......

 

It too IS a CIA controlled group. Used as blame for almost everything.

 

The origins of al-Qaeda can be traced to a few weeks after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, when a cadre of non-Afghani, Arab Muslim fighters joined the largely United States and Pakistan-funded Afghan mujāhidīn anti-Russian resistance movement (a guerrilla war against Soviet occupation forces and the Soviet-backed Afghan government).

 

Before the United States invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban offered to turn over bin Laden to a neutral country for trial if the United States would provide evidence of bin Laden's complicity in the attacks. President Bush responded by saying "We know he's guilty. Turn him over" and soon thereafter the United States invaded Afghanistan and, together with the Afghan Northern Alliance, deposed the Taliban government.

 

According to the controversial BBC documentary The Power of Nightmares, al-Qaeda is so weakly linked together that it is hard to say it exists apart from Osama bin Laden and a small clique of close associates. The lack of any significant numbers of convicted al-Qaeda members despite a large number of arrests on terrorism charges is cited by the documentary as a reason to doubt whether a widespread entity that meets the description of al-Qaeda exists at all.

He is right about the Taliban and the USSR, the Taliban was a FORMER CIA funded and trained unit used to carry out missions against the Soviet Union during the invasion of Afghanistan in the mid 80's.

 

This subject will never be calm in any form of discussion. Both sides believe their point VERY strongly.

 

In my personal opinion, the only reason the US backs Israel is because people in high places (mostly Jewish people) feel the need to help aide them, hence keeping us in the middle of the fighting.

Almost all extremists hate us because.......why? WE BACK ISRAEL. its so simple, almost ALL of the hatred that fuels the Muslims and terrorists is based in the Israel Palestine situation. If we stopped aiding Israel, i garuntee alot of our problems dealing with Terrorism and Muslim hatred against us would cease. Im not saying all of them, but im just saying, most of the people against us are against us because we are on Israels side....so there you go

 

thats possible. but i believe the biggest reason we are helping israel is because they have the same enemies as us...and were one of the nations that doesnt hate them because they are jewish. lets face the facts, the jews have been the most hated race, from thousands of years ago to today....its nothing new.

Ok so everyone knows. i assume most of you do though. al quiada formed by muslim extremist and funded by them. Taliban was helped formed by the u.s. and armed and funded for a short period of time.

Ok so everyone knows. i assume most of you do though. al quiada formed by muslim extremist and funded by them. Taliban was helped formed by the u.s. and armed and funded for a short period of time.

Like I said to you on another thread, this too is irrefutable fact.

 

What blows me away is hearing CNN saying the follwing...and I quote: Could it be that the US funded Saddam Hussein's weapons programme in the 1980s?'

 

People don't sem to remember back that far or haven't done the math. At that time, the US, Iraq and the Taliban had the same enemies...alliance is a marriage of convenience! Musharif said as much right after 9/11. That might just make him the most honest dictator in world history!!!

 

God, if I have to keep agreeing with you, Mr. Cool, I won't be able to sleep at night...lol,kidding...but in this instance, you're ritht again.

 

But never forget the Butsh Family's personal connection to the Bin Ladin Family...

 

...uh-oh...new can o' worms...

Bush has a family connections with the Bin Ladin family, that is a fact. BUT that doesnt mean anything, he has ties with Bin Ladin's FAMILY. He has a huge family, i think its like 70 brother and sisters..something like that. He does not have ties to Bin Laden.

Bush has a family connections with the Bin Ladin family' date=' that is a fact. BUT that doesnt mean anything, he has ties with Bin Ladin's FAMILY. He has a huge family, i think its like 70 brother and sisters..something like that. He does not have ties to Bin Laden.[/quote']

I'm probably re-hashing old news on the wrong thread here, but why is it, and this is also a FACT, that the members of the Bin Ladin family in the US were practically the only people allowed to fly out of the States on 9/11?

 

I have a connection here to an Italian family that owns a deli. I get free food from them all the time. If a nobody like me can use those family ties, how much more is the most powerful man in the free world going to use them?

 

I know it's a bit of a trite analogy, but my point is that one hand washes the other on every level of society...

I'm probably re-hashing old news on the wrong thread here, but why is it, and this is also a FACT, that the members of the Bin Ladin family in the US were practically the only people allowed to fly out of the States on 9/11?

 

I have a connection here to an Italian family that owns a deli. I get free food from them all the time. If a nobody like me can use those family ties, how much more is the most powerful man in the free world going to use them?

 

I know it's a bit of a trite analogy, but my point is that one hand washes the other on every level of society...

 

 

They were cleared by the FBI and our goverment needs to be "buddy buddy" with the rich family. its the same with the u.s. and most other nations and powerful people. one hand isnt washing the other in this situation because there was nothing to wash. Bin Ladin was the one who attacked america, not his family, they shouldnt be punished because of what there brother did.

They were cleared by the FBI and our goverment needs to be "buddy buddy" with the rich family. its the same with the u.s. and most other nations and powerful people. one hand isnt washing the other in this situation because there was nothing to wash. Bin Ladin was the one who attacked america' date=' not his family, they shouldnt be punished because of what there brother did.[/quote']

This is where we're probably going to end up at odds again, because I firmly believe that Bush, his family and his Whitehouse were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. There was plenty of warning that the attacks were coming, and yet nothing was done...and as I've said before, 9/11 justified the return to Iraq that Bush wanted all along. If you ask me, it's all too convenient.

 

But in all fairness, and in deferrence to you, alot of my belief here is based on conjecture, and I prefer to debate with just the facts. There's plenty of circumstantial eveidence to back my beliefs, but we all know where circumstantial eveince gets you in court.

 

Besides, I'm way off the topic of this thread, and am REALLY tired. I'll check out your reply when I'm on-line tomorrow. G'night!

This is where we're probably going to end up at odds again, because I firmly believe that Bush, his family and his Whitehouse were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. There was plenty of warning that the attacks were coming, and yet nothing was done...and as I've said before, 9/11 justified the return to Iraq that Bush wanted all along. If you ask me, it's all too convenient.

 

But in all fairness, and in deferrence to you, alot of my belief here is based on conjecture, and I prefer to debate with just the facts. There's plenty of circumstantial eveidence to back my beliefs, but we all know where circumstantial eveince gets you in court.

 

Besides, I'm way off the topic of this thread, and am REALLY tired. I'll check out your reply when I'm on-line tomorrow. G'night!

 

 

Nothing was done because of the goverment as a whole. because before bush security funds were cut, and people ignored the warning....the warning were there for many years, specialy during the clinton years, the terrorist attacks done by alquiada and all. bush couldnt have done anything to stop 911, he just got in office, it was a perfect time to strike. if the goverment was behind the attacks they wouldnt attack the pentagon and the twin towers...that would only hurt the nation, they would pick less valuable targets that wouldnt hurt that much but get the point accross. if bush was truly behind the attacks or played the role it would have been carried out much differently. that is my belief, not only because of that but because there is no hard evidence to back that he played a role in it.....

I tend towards the left if I have to choose a stance...which I don't. But Clinton for the most part slept through his terms in office!!! Still, it was good for bush that 9/11 happenned. And don't kid youself. If the deaths of a few thousand people and the destruction ofa few major US landmarks will serve the goal of any president, Republican or Democrat, they'll put it down to Collateral Damage and move on. Our puny lives...even in the thousands...mean nothing the the men...and women...in high places. The entire system is flawed. It's the old addage 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Anyway, I'm still off topic and still tired...so, I'm logging off for real this time...maybe...

 

G'night!

I tend towards the left if I have to choose a stance...which I don't. But Clinton for the most part slept through his terms in office!!! Still, it was good for bush that 9/11 happenned. And don't kid youself. If the deaths of a few thousand people and the destruction ofa few major US landmarks will serve the goal of any president, Republican or Democrat, they'll put it down to Collateral Damage and move on. Our puny lives...even in the thousands...mean nothing the the men...and women...in high places. The entire system is flawed. It's the old addage 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Anyway, I'm still off topic and still tired...so, I'm logging off for real this time...maybe...

 

G'night!

 

911 would be overkill to get what bush wants. he wouldnt need a attack that bad to do it. he could get what he watned with a much smaller attack...it would only hurt him and his country to attack the pentagon and wtc when there are a million other targets not worth anything that could be used...my basic point is bush isnt dumb he knows overall the attacks hurt the nation, and if he wanted to an attack to happen to get what he wants he could do a much smaller attack that wouldnt hurt the nation he's ruling and get the same effect

 

g'night.

LOL dude you are full of bullshit about Israel, it was never a predominantly Jewish settlement, prior to 1947 Jews had just a couple of settlements from the land they bought from the Palestinians these weren't more than 5% of land what is now Israel, and all of sudden as a sort of reparation for WW2 they got huge land based on obscured legends in the bible, so they had no right to occupy that land, it's just that they had support of international politics, otherwise by any other sane thinking the land would be given to the 67% of population not 33%...

Your thinking is like this: Oh look Alaska is barren land, and there are (hipothetically speaking) 30% of muslims there, hey they have a right to have their own country there...

I mean just think if your country would be given to the 30% of population living there, wouldn't you do something about it? Of course they didn't accept the deal it was far away from sanity or any sort of historical rights...

thats possible. but i believe the biggest reason we are helping israel is because they have the same enemies as us...and were one of the nations that doesnt hate them because they are jewish. lets face the facts' date=' the jews have been the most hated race, from thousands of years ago to today....its nothing new.[/quote']

Ugh Nick, Jews are not a race!There is a difference beetwen race, nation, ethnic group, etc.

again i ask you to know your history before you speak. al quiada was made up by all muslim extremist. america did not fund or arm them. we armed the taliban against ussr.

 

you are one of the only people in this world to believe otherwise.

 

 

How amazing that you didn't know the history friend

 

See this

 

Al-Qaeda appearence 1979

 

Taliban appearence 1994

 

Russia get out from Afghanistan 1992

 

 

So from all this dates, who can dismissed the Russian Forces in many years by Guerilla War

again i ask you to know your history before you speak. al quiada was made up by all muslim extremist. america did not fund or arm them. we armed the taliban against ussr.

 

you are one of the only people in this world to believe otherwise.

 

 

USSR dissolution December 21, 1991

 

Taliban apperence 1994

the truth hurts....but hey they could have had their palestine if they really wanted it...but sadly they dont.

 

 

What you mean?

He is right about the Taliban and the USSR, the Taliban was a FORMER CIA funded and trained unit used to carry out missions against the Soviet Union during the invasion of Afghanistan in the mid 80's.

 

 

 

 

I will say it again

 

Taliban apperence 1994, so how they can carry out missions against the Soviet Union during the invasion of Afghanistan in the mid 80's.

1. Where are you getting you info on the Taliban's formation? I was around in the 80s and watched news reports about the Taliban fighting the USSR in Afghanistan.

2. And this is off-topic, but someone else raised it and it's ironic as hell...You asked how someone would feel if the US was given to 30 percent of the population??? Ask the indiginous people!!!

3. The Jews were given a choice between 2 places to settle in 1946...one in the Arctic...seriously...and what we now call Isreal. They could either live in unfarmable conditions, or in the midst of their enemies...not really a fair deal anyway you slice it, so don't tell me the Jews got any kind of break!

4. The Jews ARE indeed a race. This is not conspiracy crap. There was this little thing called the Diaspora...i.e. dispersion...ask you history teacher.

 

I've probably opened up new cans of worms here, and that's ok. I may have insulted ppl here, and that's not ok. I appologize if I've hurt feelings. I'm just repeating history as I've read and remembered it. No offense intended.

the official taliban didnt form til then. but the people who made up the taliban were earlier armed and trained mostly by the US to fight the USSR....those soldiers a few after defeating the USSR formed the taliban....so we did help arm and train them...although alot of the weapons they had in recent years were mostly soviet weapons captured from the USSR's invasion and left there....

How amazing that you didn't know the history friend

 

See this

 

Al-Qaeda appearence 1979

 

Taliban appearence 1994

 

Russia get out from Afghanistan 1992

 

 

So from all this dates, who can dismissed the Russian Forces in many years by Guerilla War

 

 

So retrospect i do know my history.....

1. Where are you getting you info on the Taliban's formation? I was around in the 80s and watched news reports about the Taliban fighting the USSR in Afghanistan.

2. And this is off-topic, but someone else raised it and it's ironic as hell...You asked how someone would feel if the US was given to 30 percent of the population??? Ask the indiginous people!!!

3. The Jews were given a choice between 2 places to settle in 1946...one in the Arctic...seriously...and what we now call Isreal. They could either live in unfarmable conditions, or in the midst of their enemies...not really a fair deal anyway you slice it, so don't tell me the Jews got any kind of break!

4. The Jews ARE indeed a race. This is not conspiracy crap. There was this little thing called the Diaspora...i.e. dispersion...ask you history teacher.

 

I've probably opened up new cans of worms here, and that's ok. I may have insulted ppl here, and that's not ok. I appologize if I've hurt feelings. I'm just repeating history as I've read and remembered it. No offense intended.

 

 

1- I'm student in Faculty of Law and I study it. There isn't any formation called Taliban in the 80's

 

 

2- It's not off topic as you said,this is the core of topic because if we cleared who have the right to live in this land and who own it.We will know who the freedom fighters and who the terrorists

 

3- Clear what you mean in your third point

 

 

4- Jews not a race,maybe in the past but now no.Because when the jews dispersion they vanish and merge with the other races so there no race called jews because there are Russians jews,American jews,Egyptians jew, Japanese jews ,Latin jews and Africa jews.Do you understand me?

1- I'm student in Faculty of Law and I study it. There isn't any formation called Taliban in the 80's

 

 

2- It's not off topic as you said,this is the core of topic because if we cleared who have the right to live in this land and who own it.We will know who the freedom fighters and who the terrorists

 

3- Clear what you mean in your third point

 

 

4- Jews not a race,maybe in the past but now no.Because when the jews dispersion they vanish and merge with the other races so there no race called jews because there are Russians jews,American jews,Egyptians jew, Japanese jews ,Latin jews and Africa jews.Do you understand me?

 

LISTEN here ok, the people who formed the taliban were trained to fight the soviets by the USA and armed by us....they werent called teh taliban at the time.

 

yes we do know, the freedom fighters are the jews trying to survive in their legal land, while racist terrorist are trying to kill them because they are jews.....the palestinians arent fighting for freedom.

LISTEN here ok, the people who formed the taliban were trained to fight the soviets by the USA and armed by us....they werent called teh taliban at the time.

 

yes we do know, the freedom fighters are the jews trying to survive in their legal land, while racist terrorist are trying to kill them because they are jews.....the palestinians arent fighting for freedom.

 

 

Look,put Taliban aside now

 

 

How do you know that jews a freedom fighters and they are defend their land?

 

But first,tell me in brief how the jews make their country?

 

Please don't tell me there are few people live there because it's not a reason

Palestinian PM's HQ 'targeted'

 

Israeli aircraft have launched an attack on the office of the Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, witnesses have said.

The attack comes during an Israeli incursion into Gaza after one of their soldiers was abducted last week.

 

Witnesses said two missiles hit the south side of the prime minister's building, starting a fire.

 

Three security guards were reportedly injured in the attack, which took place at 0145 local time (2245 GMT).

 

The BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza says he heard the sound of helicopters, and that witnesses said one rocket struck Mr Haniya's second floor office, setting the building ablaze.

 

Another explosion was heard shortly after.

 

Abbas hopeful

 

The attack follows a strike on the office of the interior ministry on Thursday.

 

Israeli forces have also moved into the south of Gaza as part of efforts to free the soldier, Corporal Gilad Shalit, 19, captured by militants during a raid on an Israeli army post last week.

 

Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas has said he is still hopeful of a peaceful resolution over the capture of the soldier.

Air strike on Palestinian PM's HQ

 

Witnesses said two missiles hit the cabinet building

Israeli aircraft have launched an attack on Gaza City, hitting the office of the Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya.

The attack comes during an Israeli incursion into Gaza after one of their soldiers was abducted last week.

 

 

Witnesses said two missiles hit the south side of the offices of the Hamas-led cabinet, starting a fire.

 

Three security guards were reportedly injured in the attack, and at least one Hamas member died in a separate strike.

 

The attack on the cabinet offices took place at 0145 local time (2245 GMT). The prime minister was not there at the time.

 

Mr Haniya visited the scene of the attack later, saying: "They have targeted a symbol for the Palestinian people."

 

"We ask the international community and the Arab League to take its responsibilities towards our people and intervene to bring an end to this aggression."

 

The BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza says he heard the sound of helicopters, and that witnesses said one rocket struck Mr Haniya's second floor office, setting the building ablaze.

 

Another explosion was heard shortly after.

 

Abbas hopeful

 

The attack follows a strike on the office of the interior ministry on Thursday.

 

Our correspondent says the attacks on ministers' offices were a clear sign the Israelis regarded them as personally responsible for the soldier's fate.

 

Israeli forces have also moved into the south of Gaza as part of efforts to free the soldier, Corporal Gilad Shalit, 19, captured by militants during a raid on an Israeli army post last week.

 

Speaking before the latest strikes, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said he was still hopeful of a peaceful resolution over the capture of the soldier.

 

He said that the door to an agreement had not been closed and that negotiations would continue but he indicated that there were limits to his optimism, said our correspondent.

 

 

The three groups believed to be holding the Israeli have demanded the release of 1,000 prisoners held in Israeli prisons, and an end to the offensive. Israel is refusing to consider a prisoner swap.

 

Egyptian mediators have so far failed to secure the soldier's release.

 

An official close to the negotiations told AFP news agency: "Our efforts to release the soldier have reached a dead end.

 

"We could not do any more to release him because there are too many demands interfering with our efforts."

 

 

The UN's special Middle East envoy, Alvero de Soto, is expected to travel to Gaza on Sunday for talks with Mr Abbas.

 

Israel has rejected conditions set for information on, or the freeing of, the tank gunner who was seized in a raid on his border post last Sunday in which two other soldiers and two of the attackers died.

 

large Israeli force remains poised on Gaza's northern edge as mediators make last-ditch attempts to reach a solution.

 

Israeli tanks and bulldozers crossing the border near Khan Younis ran into gunfire and grenades on Saturday.

 

It was the first sustained encounter between the two sides since the incursion was launched, our correspondent said.

 

However, casualties in Gaza have been relatively light since the incursion began, with the deaths of two militants reported before Sunday's air strikes.

 

GAZA CRISIS TIMELINE

Sun 25 June: Cpl Gilad Shalit captured in cross-border attack

Mon 26 June: Palestinian Popular Resistance Committees demand prisoner releases in exchange for Shalit

Weds 28 June: Israeli military enters southern strip after launching air strikes on Gaza

Thurs 29 June: Israel detains dozens of Hamas officials

Sat 1 July: Groups believed to be holding Cpl Shalit demand 1,000 prisoners be released

 

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news