August 23, 200916 yr Chris is spot on. It's not about the religion, it's about the state's affiliation with the religion. Malaysia is an Islamic country, and according to the religion, every country that is led by a Muslim leader should be led in accordance to the Islamic Law. Therefore as long as it's an Islamic country, it will automatically/supposed to be fully-affiliated to the religion. It's just that some leaders choose to ignore this, but it just so happen that that particular state government of Malaysia doesn't.
August 23, 200916 yr Malaysia is an Islamic country, and according to Islam, every country that is led by a Muslim leader should be led in accordance to the Islamic Law. Some leaders chose to ignore this, but it just so happen that the Malaysian government doesn't. LOL ok I have a problem with that then. I doubt all Muslims think that like that though. If they're ruling their country according to Islam, then they're just ruling out of fear. They're afraid that their religion isn't strong enough to survive without strict punishments and making examples out of people. That's really cowardly.
August 23, 200916 yr That is not coward, that is called being devoted to your religion and obeying your God. I know that sounds cheesy, but it's the truth. In our religion, you have to base your decision on the values being promoted. There is no use in believing in Islam if you don't believe in the values that come with it. We are talking about Islam, so I'm giving you all these guidelines and explanation. It is up to you to agree or disagree.
August 23, 200916 yr All I'm saying is that these Muslim governments are afraid that without strict rules, the religion would fail. If it really were a strong religion it wouldn't need laws to keep people faithful.
August 23, 200916 yr pfffffffft when did say i'm afraid, you think i defend my beliefs because i'm afraid! oh please No, I think you're not defending your beliefs and just senselessly shouting that Mark has gone too far, and needs to go away because you might be afraid of something. and are you joking, how can i ignore such threads, it's about my religion, and everything which touches my religion touches me! if i don't defend my religion then i don't respect it then start defending it by calmly explaining what's wrong with the article. Your perspective is very valuable here. we're all trying to make Mark understand that he's gone far, and he better stops ...
August 23, 200916 yr All I'm saying is that these Muslim governments are afraid that without strict rules, the religion would fail. If it really were a strong religion it wouldn't need laws to keep people faithful. Don't you think that being willing to apply the Islamic Law in a country eventhough we keep on receiving criticism from people from the outside and putting our country's name and reputation at stake (because let's face it, the world in general has this 'perception' towards Muslims yet we're still willing to do something that screams 'we are an Islamic country!') itself shows how strong the religion stands? At least in that particular country..
August 23, 200916 yr All I'm saying is that these Muslim governments are afraid that without strict rules, the religion would fail. If it really were a strong religion it wouldn't need laws to keep people faithful. And now you're judging our religion.
August 23, 200916 yr Don't you think that being willing to apply the Islamic Law in a country eventhough we keep on receiving criticism from people from the outside and putting our country's name and reputation at stake (because let's face it, the world in general has this 'perception' towards Muslims yet we're still willing to do something that screams 'we are an Islamic country!') shows how strong the religion stands? At least in that particular country.. Nope, it shows how strong the government is. And now you're judging our religion. Nope, insulting Muslim governments. Muslim people in America are totally chill, and they have a much higher quality of life.
August 23, 200916 yr Nope, it shows how strong the government is. Well if the strong government practices the Islamic way of leading a country, it sure says something about the religion itself. Anyhow, religion is a very subjective issue, so like I said, it's up to you to agree or disagree.
August 23, 200916 yr And now you're judging our religion. is there a problem with that? Perception gathers information, information is formulated into ideas, out of ideas come judgments and opinions. The ability to interact this way with the world around you is a beautiful part of being human. By all means, judge me and my religion, I encourage it. In any case, I'm sure Josh was talking more about oppressive government than anything else...
August 23, 200916 yr Well if the government practices the Islamic way of leading a country, it sure says something about the religion itself. No, it doesn't. It just shows how power hungry they are. The strength of the religion is shown when people are faithful without having to worry about strict punishments. If someone is only faithful because they'll get whipped for not being faithful, then they're only faithful because of fear.
August 23, 200916 yr Nope, it shows how strong the government is. Nope, insulting Muslim governments. Muslim people in America are totally chill, and they have a much higher quality of life. Because America is not an Islamic country, and America cannot make any law respecting an establishment of a religion like what is written in Establishment Clause from Amendment No. 1.
August 23, 200916 yr I don't intend to insult anyone, and there's nothing wrong with being defensive, but everybody should just chill. Forum's are all about discussion, a sharing of opinions...if you have a problem give us yours, but don't demand that people be censored just because you don't want to hear it. This is Coldplaying.com, a website for Coldplay :thinking:. There´s no point in having threads like these on coldplaying :sick: Or is it? :rolleyes:
August 23, 200916 yr No, it doesn't. It just shows how power hungry they are. The strength of the religion is shown when people are faithful without having to worry about strict punishments. If someone is only faithful because they'll get whipped for not being faithful, then they're only faithful because of fear. Islam is not just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life. Muslims believe that Islam encompasses everything, even politics, the law, etc. They don't carry out punishments to get other people to be faithful out of fear. They carry out punishments because it's in the law. Secular laws state that punishments are allowed to be carried out too, no? After investigations and trials? On criminals? Same thing.
August 23, 200916 yr No, it doesn't. It just shows how power hungry they are. The strength of the religion is shown when people are faithful without having to worry about strict punishments. If someone is only faithful because they'll get whipped for not being faithful, then they're only faithful because of fear. In our religion, we believe that there are such thing as lust. A person can devote themselves to the religion all he wants, but he can always be tempted to all the things around him. This is where the punishment comes in, it is a reminder to others that it is wrong to commit a sin and we take all the wrongdoings very seriously. If the punishment is not strict enough, people might still comit the sins, as there are always things around them that will lead them to all sorts of sins. Plus, like I said before, sins like drinking alcohol may put other people in danger as well, not just the drinker. So our religion believe that it has to be punished accordingly, that is for comitting the sin, and for being harmful to the people around him/her.
August 23, 200916 yr This is Coldplaying.com, a website for Coldplay :thinking:. There´s no point in having threads like these on coldplaying :sick: Or is it? :rolleyes: Needless to say, this is the news & sports section of the forum. If you want to discuss things exclusively related to coldplay, post in the coldplay section. If you want to talk about other bands, go to WOM. To discuss waffles you visit the lounge, and to discuss news & sports, you come here.
August 23, 200916 yr Needless to say, this is the news & sports section of the forum. If you want to discuss things exclusively related to coldplay, post in the coldplay section. If you want to talk about other bands, go to WOM. To discuss waffles you visit the lounge, and to discuss news & sports, you come here. it´s still stupid. especially when people get all pissed and stuff when this subject is brought up.
August 23, 200916 yr Anyway, I have to go now, it's 5.10am over here. I hope that we're all good here (except for Mark), as I'm treating this only as a discussion and change of opinions. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone.
August 23, 200916 yr Like Zeya, I hope we're all good. Most of us are here because we're fans of Coldplay, not because we want to argue to each other. I told you that I try to be as nice as I could be so, I see today's conversation as no more than a discussion. I'm sorry if I did offend you guys. :nice:
August 23, 200916 yr Enough of all this negative remarks about Islam. You don't even know anything about our religion, so stop judging!! But Mark loves posting stories from the BNP-lite, sorry the daily mail (to give it it's proper name). *goes off listening to Imagine by John Lennon*
August 23, 200916 yr "Secondly, consuming alcohol is a very big sin in our religion. Someone who is drunk is not in a rasional state of mind, therefore they are capable of doing a lot of other crimes/sin, including raping and killing. So consuming alcohol is not only harmful to the drinker, but it can bring a lot of danger to the people around him or her, hence the punishment that comes with it. As it was said before, alcohol consumption has the pros and cons, but the cons is much greater than the pros." Hang on Zeya people can drink without getting drunk. I see where you are coming from but murders , beatings etc happen in all countries and drink CERTAINLY is not the sole reason for murder, rape numbers and plays a very insignificant role in these numbers. I think Mark has every right to post these articles as most of us shall not and WILL never condone violence and the articles bring in some healthy debate. Do Muslims believe in reformation? I congratulate Mark for bringing up these subjects many of us feel is wrong.
August 23, 200916 yr lol, people get so easily offended, it´s almost funny :wacko: lol, seriously. I guarantee nobody here is offended. Its less annoying when people are brutally honest than when they tip-toe around topics, afraid of conflicting with someone else's opinion. You learn more that way.
August 23, 200916 yr But Mark loves posting stories from the BNP-lite, sorry the daily mail (to give it it's proper name). *goes off listening to Imagine by John Lennon* irony?
August 23, 200916 yr why do you all need to pull us down? we just want this to stop and that's our choice because it talks about our religion, that's our right! why you can't be comprehensible and leave your hands off of it?
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