bart Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I heard a brief news report the other day, in the summary of newspapers on bbc radio 5 from the UK. And it said that the Russians have said they " May cut of Europes Oli and gas Supplies on Monday 1st September. As they are currently unahppy with the stance of certain western leaders......... ! Please Mr Bush and Brown please stop you silly ego games. Please stop fretening the Russian Border. I am fairly confident if the Russians Set up shop again in Cuba and started setting up Missle bases in countries like NewFoundland and Greenland you may have something to say about it, so please stop your double standards or otherwise you are going to set in place a set of events of which will escalte to all out war ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 It's all America and Britains fault Russia wants to control western Europe.... We forced them to invade a country where a pipeline ran through that would bypass Russia...please lets have higher energy prices controlled by Russia, because we all know they've been so great to other nations in the past.... If Cuba, Greenland or Iceland begged Russia to put missiles in their nation's I wouldn't be mad. But the fact is most eastern European nations hate Russia for the mass murder and freedoms Russia took away from them for years and is still trying to even after their empire fell. Yes Bart run into the arms of Russia, because they will treat you and your nations better....read a history book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm thinking that Russia's oligarchs are behaving like a bunch of thugs running an extortion racket - "pay the bribe / allow us to invade small countries, and in exchange we won't cut off your oil and gas?" Is this an accurate assessment? Here at one time, people in big cities had to pay "protection and insurance money" to the mafia to keep their businesses from mysteriously catching on fire.. so, is this any different Bart?? But since this is a European issue, why not just send the Spanish Armada to keep them in line?;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Maybe America should make up with Russia, completely pull out of Europe and say good luck. Then let Russia take it over and trade with the soviets. We'd save billions. And when they beg for someone to save them from Russia's horrible treatment of its conquered nations, we can say "Fuck you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 :rolleyes::laugh3: That's bit harsh, but somewhat true - repeat behavior is common, and it seems that Russia has a tendency to behave in a historically predictable fashion (once the mold is set, the cast comes out remarkably the same every time). What models do Russians have for a better way forward - that is the question that comes to my mind. It seems maybe there are some bright spots in their history that they can draw from, such as Catherine the Great.. Any likelihood of that happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Nope.:angry: But I do love how Russia bullies Europe and America is to blame, I guess in the eyes of many western Europeans, Russia is the answer to the problem that is America. Maybe they should listen to all the nations that suffered under Russia before they let themselves become Russia's slave. Most Eastern European nations will warn you of what Russia is like....It's a shame too, because we treated Western Europe so bad..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 One positive side effect of Russia's bullying and threats may be a greatly invigorated effort in Europe to create energy independence, and move swiftly towards high efficiency in buildings, manufacturing, transportation, and lighting. This may actually be a good thing in the end after all - what a better way to make people move off the mark, and make the transition towards a high-efficiency economy?? I know what's possible, if only the average citizen would make the changes - and it's really not rocket science, just common sense stuff... But making up with Europe I think will happen, as I put more faith in Barack to be diplomatic with Europe's leaders, unlike the current occupant of the White House.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck kottke Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Maybe Alexander Kerensky? Seems like there has to be some components in Russian history to use as a better model to learn from.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 i am happy i choose a country to live in who´s prime minister carefully considers their impact of their foreign and regional polices............ :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felicote Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 ummm, im not defending all of Russia's actions. Going into georgian territory was out of line and inexcusable. But please people, do not ignore the fact that Georgia started this conflict. They were very much aware Of what Russia's response would be if they were to invade South Ossetia, a region that has been autonomous for 16 years. I recommend everyone read Gorbachev's op-ed piece in the new york times. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20gorbachev.html?em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 i am happy i choose a country to live in who´s prime minister carefully considers their impact of their foreign and regional polices............ :) And he enjoys that freedom because other nations do it for him....:\ Maybe we shouldn't, let Europe fend for itself. I think we both agree on that. It's clear America and Russia share the same agenda; A Global empire. America can be a economic power if we focused on our nation not an empire. If we pulled all our troops back to America and focused on our home. We should let Russia take over what it wants, open up good relations with Russia and trade. I think the American government is viewing it wrong, its not America OR Russia, it could be a smaller stronger America AND Russia, but lets not forget China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldplanty Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 We forced them to invade a country where a pipeline ran through that would bypass Russia...please lets have higher energy prices controlled by Russia, because we all know they've been so great to other nations in the past.... hey wait wait, did Russia change government in Georgia? did Russia catch Saakashvili? does Russia control the pipeline now? it was BP property, and it is. And when they beg for someone to save them from Russia's horrible treatment of its conquered nations, we can say "Fuck you" :laugh3: before you say "Fuck you" we will fall your economic:wink3: One positive side effect of Russia's bullying and threats may be a greatly invigorated effort in Europe to create energy independence, and move swiftly towards high efficiency in buildings, manufacturing, transportation, and lighting. how? _____ People don't panic, everything will be alrite, I believe:D:D Yes, we can cut off the oil supply because a lot of oil-fields in the Western Siberia become empty :( Thats why the government are trying to stimulate new oil-fields with light taxes. This is just a fact, but they willnot become empty tomorrow:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 And don't worry about when the fields run out because by then They will invade a nation and take their oil and then stop the Pipe line in Georgia. Sleep well and know Russia will do all it can to control your energy, even when theirs runs out. Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldplanty Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 So I'm waiting for tomorrow EU sanctions. Soon soon :laugh3: Any guess for tomorrow? What can they do?:shocked2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Everyone tend to forget that Russia is also dependent on Europe not only the other way round. Why? Because their pipelines only connect Russia with Western Europe. They don't have other pipelines to other countries (for example to China) so the only possibility for them to realise profit is to sell oil and gas to Europe. ;) So I'm waiting for tomorrow EU sanctions. Soon soon :laugh3: Any guess for tomorrow? What can they do?:shocked2: French foreign minister Kouchner said they won't apply sanctions against Russia so there's no need for Russia to cut off the oil supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Tomorrow is a very important day. I guess the British will be pushing for some sort of sanctions against the Russians. Lets hope this doesnt happen, and I hope the Spanish, Germans, and French have some say in the issue. Another thing... History is in the past.... stop looking back... I am fed up of people always going on about History, yes it happend but the future has not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I don't consider the conquest of Georgie anywhere near a repeat of the post war Iron Curtain days. I think comments like that are why Russia feels the need to defend its borders. The way I see it the West is powerless here, it has no bargining chip here. All I see is politicians saying one thing and doing another. The media around this seems very confused, I don't really understand the situation myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sanctions are one of the dumbest things, they don't work and just hurt citizens not the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Tomorrow is a very important day. I guess the British will be pushing for some sort of sanctions against the Russians. Lets hope this doesnt happen, and I hope the Spanish, Germans, and French have some say in the issue. Another thing... History is in the past.... stop looking back... I am fed up of people always going on about History, yes it happend but the future has not ! Most mistakes are made by not paying attention to history..ww2 is a big example. If you don't learn from what does not work you cannot move forward. And to best predict the future, you need to understand the past. If you ignore history you ignore the lessoned learned by others and you will make those same mistakes. Thats one the biggest things in politics and government IS history and understanding patterns. If you do not understand that you do not understand the world. A lot of the people successful in life and history used history to make them succeed. "those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 This is somethng I am going to keep a closer eye on ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice is a very good news source, very neutral and will always give the other side of the story ! May bee then some people may understand why I have up to a point been auguring this case from the point of the Russians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I really hope most people of this world aren't ignorant enough to ignore history and it's lessons. But sadly most people are that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sanctions are such a useless incentive. Remember Zimbabwa, it was the big story for a while then it vanished, same with Burma. The media love something like this, but as soon as it comes to no result they drop it from rotation. Even so you mentioned that the US should just pull out of European affairs. Everyone knows America is the key to world peace at the moment, even if you are an agressive nation. As long as America is at the top of the table or some other key democratic nation the world has never been in better shape. A lesson from WW2 was not to let other countries sink into a situation that could lead uncontrolable. Some countries like N Korea, Iran need threatening to keep them in check. Think back to Hitler, he was terrified of America forcing him into submission up till the point his nation were ready to wage war. WW2 happened as a result of a warning from history ignored, it also brought new concepts such as genocide on a large machinated scale of nuclear power to the table. The world immediatly learned these lessons without prompting and as yet there has been no campaigns of consistant explicit hatred/ genocide or warfare waged between developed nations since 1945. World peace may never be achieved but the majority of the world is currently at peace. Its a shame inevitable economic problems will ensure this will not keep forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sanctions only hurt innocent people inside the country. They're evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Ze Russians wishes for a return to the dark USSR days where the Soviets ruled the majority of Europe east of Berlin. Only this time they want to move further West, so that Putin can sit on his throne and laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Putin isn't president anymore. The Russians were never evil and agressive imo unless you consider America were too. They secured themselves under Stalin and ended up in an ideological struggle, they couldn't expand or retreat, they wouldn't have even got their hands on Germany if the allies had beaten them to Berlin. People tend to watch crap like Red Dawn or 007 movies, Russia never wanted to expand, just not show weakness (intirely) like America. If countries went communist of their own free will, it was a great knock over America. Russia never fullfilled the reputation of the agressors that the West saw them as. There are plenty of people who loved communism. For every Hungarian uprising or Afganistan there was a Vietnam. The Russians were defending their intrests, the same way America does, by leaching and bullying other nations. Same way it has been and always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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