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Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice, which side are you on?


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Hahaha yeah, the French really held off Blitzkrieg in WW2.. Especially when the Nazis were met with no resistance on taking Paris. Gotta love the French. :D

 

They're a crafty bunch. It was their strategy to appear weak, let the Germans in easily then wait for the British, Americans and Russians to kick their ass.

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It was my cousin, not sister. I know that she chose to have sex but she did use protection, and it didn't work. Now her future is completely altered because of a mishap in the protection. She shouldn't have to have that burden to raise a child at an age that she is incapable to do so.

 

Now if she was being foolish and decided to have sex without any protection, then clearly it's her fault and should have thought wiser. But if it's a failure in the protection it shouldn't be her fault.

My bad, I misread.

 

Well even if she had gotten an abortion, you don't think that would have altered her future? Having to make that decision and then having to live the rest of her life knowing she took away that child's life..you don't think that might have just as big of an effect as actually having a baby (keeping in mind adoption as a choice)? If you don't want to risk getting pregnant you can not have sex. Everyone knows all forms of birth control have the possibility of failing, so how much more likely it would be with no protection is irrelevant.

 

 

I think WW3 will be fought over this issue.

We can only hope so.

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My bad, I misread.

 

Well even if she had gotten an abortion, you don't think that would have altered her future? Having to make that decision and then having to live the rest of her life knowing she took away that child's life..you don't think that might have just as big of an effect as actually having a baby (keeping in mind adoption as a choice)? If you don't want to risk getting pregnant you can not have sex. Everyone knows all forms of birth control have the possibility of failing, so how much more likely it would be with no protection is irrelevant.

 

 

Either way it has/will alter her future, but in different ways/intensity. I understand what you're saying and I do agree that people need to be more responsible/careful when having sex, but at the same time it's not very realistic to think that everyone will abstain. At that age you just think on impulse and do what you feel at the time.

 

 

At the same time it needs to be an option. For example, lets say that you were a parent w/ a child or your had a sister or something that got pregnant at like 15 or 16 or some age, even if it was by mistake. Would you really tell the person "yeah, well it's your fault you made that decision so deal with it"? I'm sure that you would be having second thoughts.

 

 

Or at the same time say you have a married couple and the wife gets pregnant, by accident but had no intention of it happening and they both used protection. Are they just supposed to stop having sex although their married because they don't want to have a baby?

 

 

Like I mentioned before I don't think than an abortion should be a form of birth control. If you are having sex and do not want to have a baby, then use protection, it's as simple as that.

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What I'm saying is that if we're going to be all "Every foetus has a right to life and nobody can take that right" then there shouldn't be exceptions, because whether or not the mother was raped or had sex with her dad, she still shouldn't have that right to take life away. Which is entirely why I'm pro-choice.

 

Exactly.

 

I think the major deal-breaker in the whole debate is at what point does it consitute a "life". This is what cannot be agreed upon. Personally I think "life" occurs at the point in which it can survive without artificial means (i.e., breathing machine, etc.) outside of the womb. But even that's fuzzy, trying to determine the set number of weeks at which that is assumed to occur since it would have to be some sort of "average" to apply that definition to all cases. Ugh.

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if some idiot decides to hurt & rape a girl how is it the baby fault? why should he/she not be allowed to live?

if you don't want it/can't raise it then why not give it for adoption

 

 

i spent 3 months looking into adoption & talking to agencies & lawyers

it's not hard at all & the birth mother doesn't need to pay for a thing.

 

i now realized i want to keep the baby after all & i don't have intention of talking or telling about it to the birth father

i'm happy with this child no matter what that dick did to me

just because he felt like taking advantage of me i have no intentions of blaming this kid.

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Like I mentioned before I don't think than an abortion should be a form of birth control.

 

I've heard this before in this thread, but I don't think anyone actually does think of it as birth control. Unless they are complete idiots, in that case they probably wouldn't give a shit about having a kid or not they'll just keep the thing and get more benefit money.

 

For any reasonable couple or woman, it's no doubt a big decision, it's not like putting on a condom or taking a pill. While I'm completely pro-choice, I can see how it's a bit of a difficult and depressing thought to go through with an abortion, wondering what kind of life the child would have had etc. As well as that it's not cheap, it may not be life changingly expensive but at least a months wages for a kid working full time. They can't do this on a regular basis or anything.

 

Basically when people say it shouldn't be a form of birth control, I pretty much read it as, they're pro choice just like me.

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Exactly.

 

I think the major deal-breaker in the whole debate is at what point does it consitute a "life". This is what cannot be agreed upon. Personally I think "life" occurs at the point in which it can survive without artificial means (i.e., breathing machine, etc.) outside of the womb. But even that's fuzzy, trying to determine the set number of weeks at which that is assumed to occur since it would have to be some sort of "average" to apply that definition to all cases. Ugh.

 

I'm not sure if that's the most important part of the debate. The "pro-lifers" who believe there are exceptions to the rule of abortion, don't feel they need to specify after what period of time a foetus becomes a life, because it has been a life 'from the moment of conception'.

 

So really, the issue here, of 'What constitutes life?' is actually pretty irrelevant, it's just an argument to put off those who believe in pro-choice, to manipulate their case to looking as though there's no difference between killing a foetus or a baby; "How far should it go?".

 

In reality though it should be the most important part of the debate, but instead we get bogged down with extremist crap about believing in murder.

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I've heard this before in this thread, but I don't think anyone actually does think of it as birth control. Unless they are complete idiots, in that case they probably wouldn't give a shit about having a kid or not they'll just keep the thing and get more benefit money.

 

For any reasonable couple or woman, it's no doubt a big decision, it's not like putting on a condom or taking a pill. While I'm completely pro-choice, I can see how it's a bit of a difficult and depressing thought to go through with an abortion, wondering what kind of life the child would have had etc. As well as that it's not cheap, it may not be life changingly expensive but at least a months wages for a kid working full time. They can't do this on a regular basis or anything.

 

Basically when people say it shouldn't be a form of birth control, I pretty much read it as, they're pro choice just like me.

 

Yeah I agree. I think either way it is a tremendous decision to make, and can only imagine how difficult it must be. I guess that's why I'm more pro choice because I think ultimately it is an ethical decision that a woman should have the right to choose if she wants to have a baby or not. It shouldn't be up to a committee or a group of people telling her what she can/can't do when it comes to that.

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The point is, that even if the 'child' could talk for themself, they wouldn't say that anyway, because it's not enlightened enough to know whether or not it wants to live or die, it doesn't know anything and doesn't have a brain formed enough to be seen as a 'child' or a 'human'. It's an undeveloped foetus up until a certain stage.

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of course he couldn't talk for himself at that point

but have you even met a kid that was going to be aborted that said 'oh i wish my mother killed me when she had the chance'?

 

edit;

i say that because i met plenty of people that their parents gave them for adoptions instead of choosing abortion

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You could turn that around and the woman might think:

. I'm not ready to have a baby, i'm too young and not emotionally developed to cope.

. I'm not financially capable of supporting a child for whom I want to give as much as I can too.

.What affect would adoption have on the kid later on in life if I were to give it up.

.Would it be fair to bring it up in a broken home, without a father, in poverty.

.(If the baby is conceived through rape) Will I be able to form a bond with a baby conceived through such horrible circumstances, when a baby should be conceived out of love.

.I've been using contraception responsibly and it failed. Should I be punished for being responsible by giving birth to a baby that, under the circumstances, would be an accident.

 

 

Just a thought.

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You implied that if a foetus could talk for itself, it wouldn't want to be killed. I said that if it could talk, it wouldn't say anything, because it's not at the stage where it can think for itself, whether it wants to live or die, it's just biology in action.

 

If you're going to talk about an issue which apparently pro-lifers see as more sensitive then me, a pro-choice, you could at least stop being so sarcastic. In other words, no, I haven't met a kid who wished their mother had aborted them, and actually that question didn't make any sense, read it again because I don't have a clue what you're getting at.

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You could turn that around and the woman might think:

. I'm not ready to have a baby, i'm too young and not emotionally developed to cope.

. I'm not financially capable of supporting a child for whom I want to give as much as I can too.

.What affect would adoption have on the kid later on in life if I were to give it up.

.Would it be fair to bring it up in a broken home, without a father, in poverty.

.(If the baby is conceived through rape) Will I be able to form a bond with a baby conceived through such horrible circumstances, when a baby should be conceived out of love.

.I've been using contraception responsibly and it failed. Should I be punished for being responsible by giving birth to a baby that, under the circumstances, would be an accident.

i really don't understand how some women can say they are not going to be capable to love a little baby because of what happened to them

how can you look at their face & think that is all their fault what happened to you..

 

all i feel for this kid is love & that guy can go on & live the life he is living, keep on making his mistakes..

he doesn't have any right to the baby because it was rape

& like i said before i have no intention to tell him about it

 

but what i was saying is that even if he hurt me i'm not going to point finger at anyone but him.

i can't live with remorse all my life

i don't have to talk to him or ever see his face again

& if i'm not capable of looking at a baby because it might remind me of him then i'll give it to a family that is been waiting & hoping to have a child

most of this families can't have their own baby & when they are finally able to adopt is the happiest they of their lives..

i saw albums that couples made for the adoption agencies & you can see how excited they are to adopt your kid

they don't care if you were raped or not..

 

the women that say that they are being "punished" because of the circumstances by at least carrying the baby before its born are extremely selfish.

9 months it's not a lifetime

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I'm not sure if that's the most important part of the debate. The "pro-lifers" who believe there are exceptions to the rule of abortion, don't feel they need to specify after what period of time a foetus becomes a life, because it has been a life 'from the moment of conception'.

 

So really, the issue here, of 'What constitutes life?' is actually pretty irrelevant, it's just an argument to put off those who believe in pro-choice, to manipulate their case to looking as though there's no difference between killing a foetus or a baby; "How far should it go?".

 

In reality though it should be the most important part of the debate, but instead we get bogged down with extremist crap about believing in murder.

You're so right about this. I'm pro-choice and i'd love to explain why but you and Nathan pretty much said everything i was going to say. I think it's not fair for the child or the mother ( in most cases teen girls who happen to be very immature and are not prepared to raise a child). Why bring to this world a child when you can't support him?(economically that is like in that example nathan explained a few posts back) Lets say you put him to adoption, the poor child will live in foster homes and he might run away and end up with a really fucked up life. I'm not judging but abortion is an option. Too bad in some countries abortion is illegal and that causes even more problems.

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At that age you just think on impulse and do what you feel at the time.

Ok, I am "that age" we are referring to, and I absolutely hate it when people never blame anyone our age for anything. It's always the fault of the family or they just act on impulse cause they're not mature enough yet. Bullshit. I'm a fucking human being who can think and make rational well-thought-out decisions and so is just about everyone I know around my age. There's no missing part of the brain that just makes us all hormonal freaks unable to stop having sex, we can think as good as anyone else.

 

At the same time it needs to be an option. For example, lets say that you were a parent w/ a child or your had a sister or something that got pregnant at like 15 or 16 or some age, even if it was by mistake. Would you really tell the person "yeah, well it's your fault you made that decision so deal with it"? I'm sure that you would be having second thoughts.

I wouldn't put it that crudely of course. But in essence, I would sort of consider it to be their fault. If I had a kid that age or a sister and they were in this mess, I'd feel bad for them and support them but I would not support a decision to have an abortion.

 

Or at the same time say you have a married couple and the wife gets pregnant, by accident but had no intention of it happening and they both used protection. Are they just supposed to stop having sex although their married because they don't want to have a baby?

Well first off it's not likely that birth control will fail if you use the right combination. But in this instance, if they want to be sure they don't want a baby, they can abstain for a little while. It's their choice. Being married isn't some title that automatically says you should be having loads of sex.

 

If you are having sex and do not want to have a baby, then use protection, it's as simple as that.

Until that protection fails, then let's kill some babies!

 

 

i spent 3 months looking into adoption & talking to agencies & lawyers

it's not hard at all & the birth mother doesn't need to pay for a thing.

Exactly. People try to make it out as some horribly complex deal, but it's not that way at all.

 

 

just because he felt like taking advantage of me i have no intentions of blaming this kid.

Thank you. Why kill a kid who isn't at fault?

 

 

well i saw more like.. the baby has a right to live.

this

 

but have you even met a kid that was going to be aborted that said 'oh i wish my mother killed me when she had the chance'?

lol

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I can understand and appreciate your views and your belief in the sacred nature of life and that the foetus isn't at fault. However that's what it is, your views and beliefs.

Not all women are going to think the way you do. Not all are going to feel the need to keep the baby regardless of how it was conceived. If it was some sort of brutal rape or horrifying event that has scarred the woman for life, AT THAT TIME, she may question her ability to love the child as much as she could under the right circumstances. You have your way at looking at it, and it's a very positive and admirable way to look at it. However, it is not indicative of how ALL women would/should/will feel if it happens to them.

 

People use contraception in the first way to prevent pregnancy. If it fails you can't just go 'Hahaha you fucktard, now live with the consequences of probability!'

 

All in all the great thing about pro-choice is your right to have the opinion that you have. Under the circumstances you're keeping your baby and that's great. A woman in the same position who feels she cannot provide or feels that she doesn't want a child brought into the world who may grow up disadvantaged or for whatever other plethora of reasons, also has the choice to decide.

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