brandon313 Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 we can never make decisions for all or even the majority of the citizens of the united states if the decisions are based on religion. Thats what makes us so different, we are supposed to have freedom of religion, and in a way, gays not being able to wed, IS religious persecution, the SAME THING OUR ANCESTORS WHO "formed this country on religious beliefs" came here to get away from! you guys forget that they came here so that they could ALL practice what they wanted. And do you think they would have stood for one religious leader in power telling them something they cant do PURELY because of his religion???? NO! so why should we now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 i can equally argue we cant make any decision for the majority of US citizens. gays not being alowd to wed is more then just a religious issue, its a morality issue and marriage is a sacred thing for man and women and has been since the humans began. we came here to get away from strict christian beliefs but we were founded on god, our founding fathers many of them were very religious and the decisions they made about our nation were made alot of the time with their religious views in mind. our nation was founded on god by people, people's who's lives and views were shaped by god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon313 Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 that is not a fact, it may be fact for some, but not all...the gays are people too, and not letting them wed is treating them like second class citizens. racism is a morality issue as well, that was the whole big deal in the 60's and 70's. can you imagine the uprising there would be if he tried to say black people cant be wed? its just not fair. God is not for everyone and when you make a law based on religious beliefs, that is going waaaaay past the limits of separation of church and state. Gays are real, oxygen breathing, human beings who are tax paying full american citizens, and should be treated as such, and limiting them like this is not the american dream. you also keep bringing up that our country was founded on god, it was also founded on the backs of slaves. That was considered ok back then, but that changed over time. This must too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 that is not a fact, it may be fact for some, but not all...the gays are people too, and not letting them wed is treating them like second class citizens. racism is a morality issue as well, that was the whole big deal in the 60's and 70's. can you imagine the uprising there would be if he tried to say black people cant be wed? its just not fair. God is not for everyone and when you make a law based on religious beliefs, that is going waaaaay past the limits of separation of church and state. Gays are real, oxygen breathing, human beings who are tax paying full american citizens, and should be treated as such, and limiting them like this is not the american dream. you also keep bringing up that our country was founded on god, it was also founded on the backs of slaves. That was considered ok back then, but that changed over time. This must too Agreed. The separation between church and state is barely there when it comes to marriage rights, and being overstepped in education. Take for example creationism and evolution always being argued as to what to teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Agreed. The separation between church and state is barely there when it comes to marriage rights' date=' and being overstepped in education. Take for example creationism and evolution always being argued as to what to teach.[/quote'] god was kicked out of the classroom. the whole creatism theory isnt taught in school and as for evolution its not taught in many schools because of lack of evidence to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 that is not a fact, it may be fact for some, but not all...the gays are people too, and not letting them wed is treating them like second class citizens. racism is a morality issue as well, that was the whole big deal in the 60's and 70's. can you imagine the uprising there would be if he tried to say black people cant be wed? its just not fair. God is not for everyone and when you make a law based on religious beliefs, that is going waaaaay past the limits of separation of church and state. Gays are real, oxygen breathing, human beings who are tax paying full american citizens, and should be treated as such, and limiting them like this is not the american dream. you also keep bringing up that our country was founded on god, it was also founded on the backs of slaves. That was considered ok back then, but that changed over time. This must too our nation was NOT founded on black slaves. we had slavery but it was not founded on it by our founding fathers. if we let gay people marry when does it stop? marriage is for men and women and only them. what next animals and humans can get married? animals and animals can get married? marriage is and has been for a man and women since time began. its not just religious view it has to do with the tradition of marriage. marriage is a sacred thing that is with a man and women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazeboflossUK Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 our nation was NOT founded on black slaves. we had slavery but it was not founded on it by our founding fathers. if we let gay people marry when does it stop? marriage is for men and women and only them. what next animals and humans can get married? animals and animals can get married? marriage is and has been for a man and women since time began. its not just religious view it has to do with the tradition of marriage. marriage is a sacred thing that is with a man and women. Again....comparing CRAZY stuff to real matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazeboflossUK Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 We should all ban God. He's a real shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazeboflossUK Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Oh, and the longest running company ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Again....comparing CRAZY stuff to real matters. no not really, not even close. the comparing crazy stuff is more your department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berrywoman Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 our nation was NOT founded on black slaves. we had slavery but it was not founded on it by our founding fathers. if we let gay people marry when does it stop? marriage is for men and women and only them. what next animals and humans can get married? animals and animals can get married? marriage is and has been for a man and women since time began. its not just religious view it has to do with the tradition of marriage. marriage is a sacred thing that is with a man and women. would you say Jefferson is one of our founding fathers???? He did write the Declaration of Independence and stuff right?? Well, newsflash..... he had slaves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrfSnwColdplay Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 And here we go with the God thing. Again. I say no homos. Anywhere. Ever. Unless we wanna become like Africa and share the AIDS around!!! That sounds like fun, doesn't it? Any man that wants to take it up the ass should be shot. If this bill doesn't get passed I'm gunna freaking hate pro-douche Americans for the stupidity they have claimed for their own, and the harm they have inflicted upon themselves. I guess it's the consequences of 'freedom' then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 would you say Jefferson is one of our founding fathers???? He did write the Declaration of Independence and stuff right?? Well' date=' newsflash..... he had slaves...[/quote'] yeah, doest mean our nation was founded on slaves. he owned horses too, is our nation founded on horses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 god was kicked out of the classroom. the whole creatism theory isnt taught in school and as for evolution its not taught in many schools because of lack of evidence to support it. Do you live under a rock? Many parental and school councils are challenging what is being taught in the classroom. And at the forefront are both of those views. Many local and state courts are this very moment trying to decide cases on both sides. Areas with "conservative" religious communities are demanding creationism be taught alongside evolution. If you don't live a community like that, then of course you wouldn't know, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. And what is the evidence that you speak of that does not support evolution? The only legitemate reason I can think of is because of the insubstantial age of human recorded history is minuscule compared to how long the earth and all its species have been here. Other than that, all evidence points to an evolution of all species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Do you live under a rock? Many parental and school councils are challenging what is being taught in the classroom. And at the forefront are both of those views. Many local and state courts are this very moment trying to decide cases on both sides. Areas with "conservative" religious communities are demanding creationism be taught alongside evolution. If you don't live a community like that, then of course you wouldn't know, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. And what is the evidence that you speak of that does not support evolution? The only legitemate reason I can think of is because of the insubstantial age of human recorded history is minuscule compared to how long the earth and all its species have been here. Other than that, all evidence points to an evolution of all species. well if we teach evolution, we must teach other ideas and views. because evolution is just a theory with many flaws, not a fact at all. there was a whole thread a while ago where i posted a huge amount of evidence against evolution. if i have time ill post some of it. but there is alot that goes against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrfSnwColdplay Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 would you say Jefferson is one of our founding fathers???? He did write the Declaration of Independence and stuff right?? Well' date=' newsflash..... he had slaves...[/quote'] Thats why Jefferson proposed that slavery should be excluded from all of the American western territories after 1800? Or maybe after the bill was defeated by one vote, Jefferson said, "We see the fate of millions unborn hanging on the tongue of one man, and heaven was silent in that awful moment." And this bill proposed by Jefferson later banned slavery in the Northwest Territory in 1787? Hmm...yeah he sure hated slaves tryin to free them and everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 well if we teach evolution, we must teach other ideas and views. because evolution is just a theory with many flaws, not a fact at all. there was a whole thread a while ago where i posted a huge amount of evidence against evolution. if i have time ill post some of it. but there is alot that goes against it. But if all those other ideas are religious, then they violate the separation of church and state. I would be absolutely thrilled to read that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berrywoman Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Thats why Jefferson proposed that slavery should be excluded from all of the American western territories after 1800? Or maybe after the bill was defeated by one vote, Jefferson said, "We see the fate of millions unborn hanging on the tongue of one man, and heaven was silent in that awful moment." And this bill proposed by Jefferson later banned slavery in the Northwest Territory in 1787? Hmm...yeah he sure hated slaves tryin to free them and everything... it came out after that he had slaves... thats why it was so controversial... :rolleyes: and tone it down on the anti-homosexual sentiments.... ok. Its alright to disapprove of the topic or law proposal.. just take it easy on how you word things... its a friendly board. One that has guidelines as well.. read it sometime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 But if all those other ideas are religious, then they violate the separation of church and state. I would be absolutely thrilled to read that thread. no, alot of it is scientific research on the subject. there is alot of non christian anti evolution research that proves it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Christian? Who mentioned that? That's not the only religion that teaches creationism. I would like to read it please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matter-Eater Lad Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Christian? Who mentioned that? That's not the only religion that teaches creationism. I would like to read it please. well then theres alot of non religion based research against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrfSnwColdplay Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 it came out after that he had slaves... thats why it was so controversial... :rolleyes: and tone it down on the anti-homosexual sentiments.... ok. Its alright to disapprove of the topic or law proposal.. just take it easy on how you word things... its a friendly board. One that has guidelines as well.. read it sometime... Psht..I don't care about guidelines...kick me offa this thing and I could care less. It just makes me sick to see the stupidity of humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Be sick then. The thread is for discussing. If you can't handle serious discussion then leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an_cat Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 uhm..... It just makes me sick to see the stupidity of humans. Does it make you puke blood, hehe. All humans are hypocrits. We take situations and mold them to our needs. They never add up in the same pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berrywoman Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 And I'm the one attacking? Looks like we're quite the hypocrit, aren't we? you have been so far the only one I have seen practically bash homosexuals..... so, thats what I mean by toning it down... be against homosexuality, all you want, that fine. Just be careful how you word things, thats all. Anyhoo... back to topic.. this proposal is perposterous... why can't two people of the same sex get married?? I highly double that this will end human procreation... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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