Bush Proposes New Amendment to Congress

[GazeboflossUK]

Really...that does sound like a very depressing situation. I live here in London with 5 housemates.....3 of them are gay and the remaining one and myself are straight....

I have witnessed some pretty awful situations where people have became really offensive toward one of my freinds (as he is the most "camp" out of the 3)

Shouting nasty comments, throwing things, getting in his and threatening to slice him open.

And I hear what you have said about your town/school and I really worry that nothing is changing and that not enough peoples minds are able to develop their own opinions. I remember how easy it was to go along with "the group" at school, just agree and all get on with being complete shits to everyone.....but I was raised better and quickly got away from it by the age of 16, when I woke up.

 

But with more controlled thinking being forced upon people around the world....Bush can currently just about get away proposing such neanderthal ammendments.

[Marisa]

Glad to know you wrote the bible.:) Oh you people are so high and mighty.

 

 

The reason gays and lesbians want to marry are not because of religion (even though that IS a plus to it). They want the LEGAL RIGHTS that come along with it. That MAN created.

 

 

 

 

 

Learn some of the legal and practical ways that getting married changes your life.

 

Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there's no denying that it confers many rights, protections, and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits

 

* Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.

* Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

 

Estate Planning Benefits

 

* Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.

* Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.

* Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.

* Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse’s behalf.

 

Government Benefits

 

* Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.

* Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.

* Receiving public assistance benefits.

 

Employment Benefits

 

* Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.

* Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.

* Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.

* Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse’s close relatives dies.

 

Medical Benefits

 

* Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.

* Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

 

Death Benefits

 

* Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.

* Making burial or other final arrangements.

 

Family Benefits

 

* Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.

* Applying for joint foster care rights.

* Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.

* Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.

 

Housing Benefits

 

* Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."

* Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.

 

Consumer Benefits

 

* Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.

* Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.

* Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.

 

Other Legal Benefits and Protections

 

* Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).

* Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).

* Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can’t force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.

* Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.

* Obtaining domestic violence protection orders.

* Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.

* Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

 

 

 

 

 

So gays and lesbians don't deserve things that people take for granted, that are COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO RELIGION AND TRADITION.

 

I love that you know the facts about the purpose and rights of marriage in the modern world. :)

 

 

Education is a beautiful thing!

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Truer words have never been said.

 

 

It's almost like racism. Someone was on a show saying that they knew that black people weren't horrible, weren't anything they thought, but they just couldn't shake it because they had just been RAISED that way. They had the same idea towards women, that they were weak and useless. It's incredible what the environment you grow up in can do to your mind. (For the record, I'm not comparing racism to views towards gays, but hell it's still pretty similiar.)

 

 

I think another aspect of it is maturity. I've always felt that I think on a slightly higher level than a lot of people around me. The guys in my class are incredibly anti-gay, anti-liberal, pro-war, pro-guns, pro every "right wing" ideal you could whip up. I live in a completely white, completely Christian, completely republican, small town. It's absolutely sickening after living here for the amount of time I have. When we have debates in history class, the guys always talk about these stupid things like how weird gays are, and how marriage is for a man and a woman. They just spit out the same things I've heard thousands of people yapping on about. None of them know what marriage even IS (except something their parents are failing at). They talk like children who open their mouths, have a bunch of ideals and morals poured in, mixed around, then they spit it all back out. I, at least, have researched my stuff, I can back it up, I can discuss it in a calm and articulate way.

 

 

But they never care about that. And I don't know what gives people who happen to have those certain ideas the ability to be so damn dismissive and pigheaded. Maybe as they get older and their minds mature more they'll learn that sometimes you just need to shut up and listen.

 

sounds like you have a closed mind then.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

I love that you know the facts about the purpose and rights of marriage in the modern world. :)

 

 

Education is a beautiful thing!

 

if you take religion out of the equation with gay marriage, it does NOT change the fact marriage if for 2 people of opposite sex,and it continues and should be that way in the modern world, because that is what marraige is for.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Glad to know you wrote the bible.:) Oh you people are so high and mighty.

 

 

The reason gays and lesbians want to marry are not because of religion (even though that IS a plus to it). They want the LEGAL RIGHTS that come along with it. That MAN created.

 

 

 

 

 

Learn some of the legal and practical ways that getting married changes your life.

 

Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there's no denying that it confers many rights, protections, and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits

 

* Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.

* Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

 

Estate Planning Benefits

 

* Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.

* Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.

* Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.

* Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse’s behalf.

 

Government Benefits

 

* Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.

* Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.

* Receiving public assistance benefits.

 

Employment Benefits

 

* Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.

* Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.

* Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.

* Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse’s close relatives dies.

 

Medical Benefits

 

* Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.

* Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

 

Death Benefits

 

* Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.

* Making burial or other final arrangements.

 

Family Benefits

 

* Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.

* Applying for joint foster care rights.

* Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.

* Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.

 

Housing Benefits

 

* Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."

* Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.

 

Consumer Benefits

 

* Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.

* Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.

* Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.

 

Other Legal Benefits and Protections

 

* Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).

* Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).

* Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can’t force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.

* Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.

* Obtaining domestic violence protection orders.

* Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.

* Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

 

 

 

 

 

So gays and lesbians don't deserve things that people take for granted, that are COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO RELIGION AND TRADITION.

 

they should have a right to all that except Family Benefits. the goverment should do that but not alow them to marry because of what marriage is.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Except you wouldn't feel anything' date=' 'cos you'd be dead!![/i']

 

That's a really really really good point!

 

 

 

ahahaha so basically that whole insulting argument is completely worthless. Then again, I think any argument that I've had with certain people on here has been worthless. No one is ever willing to listen and attempt to expand upon their closed minds. It's a damn shame.

 

yeah i agree.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

He'll come back with something as irritating as ever' date=' just for the sake of it.[/quote']

 

Thats your department. maybe ill take a page from you and come back with some made up whacky conspiracy theory. thats right up your ally.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Truer words have never been said.

 

 

It's almost like racism. Someone was on a show saying that they knew that black people weren't horrible, weren't anything they thought, but they just couldn't shake it because they had just been RAISED that way. They had the same idea towards women, that they were weak and useless. It's incredible what the environment you grow up in can do to your mind. (For the record, I'm not comparing racism to views towards gays, but hell it's still pretty similiar.)

 

 

I think another aspect of it is maturity. I've always felt that I think on a slightly higher level than a lot of people around me. The guys in my class are incredibly anti-gay, anti-liberal, pro-war, pro-guns, pro every "right wing" ideal you could whip up. I live in a completely white, completely Christian, completely republican, small town. It's absolutely sickening after living here for the amount of time I have. When we have debates in history class, the guys always talk about these stupid things like how weird gays are, and how marriage is for a man and a woman. They just spit out the same things I've heard thousands of people yapping on about. None of them know what marriage even IS (except something their parents are failing at). They talk like children who open their mouths, have a bunch of ideals and morals poured in, mixed around, then they spit it all back out. I, at least, have researched my stuff, I can back it up, I can discuss it in a calm and articulate way.

 

 

But they never care about that. And I don't know what gives people who happen to have those certain ideas the ability to be so damn dismissive and pigheaded. Maybe as they get older and their minds mature more they'll learn that sometimes you just need to shut up and listen.

 

you have no fucking clue what marriage is, its not anything you make it. marriage is FOR man and women. that is what marriage is. not whatever people want it to be.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Really...that does sound like a very depressing situation. I live here in London with 5 housemates.....3 of them are gay and the remaining one and myself are straight....

I have witnessed some pretty awful situations where people have became really offensive toward one of my freinds (as he is the most "camp" out of the 3)

Shouting nasty comments, throwing things, getting in his and threatening to slice him open.

And I hear what you have said about your town/school and I really worry that nothing is changing and that not enough peoples minds are able to develop their own opinions. I remember how easy it was to go along with "the group" at school, just agree and all get on with being complete shits to everyone.....but I was raised better and quickly got away from it by the age of 16, when I woke up.

 

But with more controlled thinking being forced upon people around the world....Bush can currently just about get away proposing such neanderthal ammendments.

 

controlled? if our thinking was controlled there wouldnt be millions of people that think like you, who are alowd to think whatever they please. the fact is our thinking is not controlled, its free thinking. we have the goverment tellign us one thing but a MILLION other people telling us A MILLION other things, we have so many beliefs and views forced on us, people chose for themselves based on their personal beliefs. our thinking is far from controlled.

[an_cat]

MrCool, you need to stop spitting out the same processed right wing ideals that I've heard over and fuckin over again. You also need to start debating in a scholarly, concise and fact based manner or no one will ever listen to your opinion.

 

 

Do not call me closed minded. I've explained it before (was it this thread, or another? does it even matter?), but I have been through such a damn kaleidoscope of politics that you can't even IMAGINE it. I've supported Reagan, I've supported Russia. I've believed in anarchy, communism, socialism, Marx was my homie. I've supported the Iraqi war and I've supported our stance on nuclear power. I went through a period where i was positive I was lesbian. Before that I couldn't imagine anyone even attempting to have sex with someone of the same sex. It disgusted me.

 

 

We're both the victims of stereotypes. I have come across so many "right wingers" who would lynch my best friend because he's gay. It's gotten the point that I just CANNOT TOLERATE that sort of talk. I seriously have feared for my friends life, and I've seen how unfair it is for him, how difficult. Jesus, only a few miles from me a guy went into a gay bar with a magnum and a hatchet and busted the place up. And I feel like our government and society is almost creating and nurturing this hatred. It's just wrong. And I cannot see how it's ok for people to be treated different, people not unlike you and I, to deny them liberties we take for granted. Liberties like going down the street hand in hand and not getting creeped out faces staring back. Liberties like visiting your dying lover in a hospital. Things that our government only allows a man and woman to take part in.

 

 

 

And I'm sure you've met a lot of crazy ass liberals (and jesus, they're fucking insane) who've pissed you off. Sadly, a lot of the things that I believe in end up being pigeon holed in with them.

 

 

 

 

Just, please stop calling me closed minded. I'm listening to you after all, aren't I? You remind me of myself 3 years ago, even. Really. Almost all the things you have said, I said at one point.

 

 

 

 

Marriage is a legal process. A marriage CEREMONY is religious.

 

 

Athiest get married, don't they? They don't get married in a church. They don't get married because they believe in GOD. They don't get married because they believe in that man and woman stuff. They get married so they can be on equal footing with the rest of society.

 

 

Society has molded marriage into what it is. And society can mold it into whatever it is to become.

 

 

But only if people stop, open their eyes, clear the red and blue away, and see things for what they are.;)

[Matter-Eater Lad]

MrCool, you need to stop spitting out the same processed right wing ideals that I've heard over and fuckin over again. You also need to start debating in a scholarly, concise and fact based manner or no one will ever listen to your opinion.

 

 

Do not call me closed minded. I've explained it before (was it this thread, or another? does it even matter?), but I have been through such a damn kaleidoscope of politics that you can't even IMAGINE it. I've supported Reagan, I've supported Russia. I've believed in anarchy, communism, socialism, Marx was my homie. I've supported the Iraqi war and I've supported our stance on nuclear power. I went through a period where i was positive I was lesbian. Before that I couldn't imagine anyone even attempting to have sex with someone of the same sex. It disgusted me.

 

 

We're both the victims of stereotypes. I have come across so many "right wingers" who would lynch my best friend because he's gay. It's gotten the point that I just CANNOT TOLERATE that sort of talk. I seriously have feared for my friends life, and I've seen how unfair it is for him, how difficult. Jesus, only a few miles from me a guy went into a gay bar with a magnum and a hatchet and busted the place up. And I feel like our government and society is almost creating and nurturing this hatred. It's just wrong. And I cannot see how it's ok for people to be treated different, people not unlike you and I, to deny them liberties we take for granted. Liberties like going down the street hand in hand and not getting creeped out faces staring back. Liberties like visiting your dying lover in a hospital. Things that our government only allows a man and woman to take part in.

 

 

 

And I'm sure you've met a lot of crazy ass liberals (and jesus, they're fucking insane) who've pissed you off. Sadly, a lot of the things that I believe in end up being pigeon holed in with them.

 

 

 

 

Just, please stop calling me closed minded. I'm listening to you after all, aren't I? You remind me of myself 3 years ago, even. Really. Almost all the things you have said, I said at one point.

 

 

 

 

Marriage is a legal process. A marriage CEREMONY is religious.

 

 

Athiest get married, don't they? They don't get married in a church. They don't get married because they believe in GOD. They don't get married because they believe in that man and woman stuff. They get married so they can be on equal footing with the rest of society.

 

 

Society has molded marriage into what it is. And society can mold it into whatever it is to become.

 

 

But only if people stop, open their eyes, clear the red and blue away, and see things for what they are.;)

Im not against gay's getting legal rights like married couples, im against teh actual act of marraige because of what it truly is. im all for them having teh same benefits from our goverment as a man and women married couple (except adopting kids)just as long as they are not married.

[an_cat]

The problem:

 

 

You can only get those rights by being MARRIED.

 

 

 

:uhoh:

[Matter-Eater Lad]

the goverment should change that.

[an_cat]

Yup.

 

 

 

They should just create a whole new thing

 

"Marriage-THE ORIGINAL"

 

"Marriage-THE QUEER"

 

 

In the future it'll just be like a KFC take out menu.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

dont use the word queer, its offensive.

[an_cat]

Oh. Ok.

 

 

 

 

 

I was using it to make a point, but I guess that's lost on a lot of people...

 

 

 

There's something weirdly ironic about this conversation... :thinking:

[GazeboflossUK]

dont use the word queer' date=' its offensive.[/quote']

 

Oh, screw you, your whole way of thinking offensive.

What you have just said there is YOU just playing silly little games...

[SrfSnwColdplay]

MrCool, you need to stop spitting out the same processed right wing ideals that I've heard over and fuckin over again. You also need to start debating in a scholarly, concise and fact based manner or no one will ever listen to your opinion.

 

 

Do not call me closed minded. I've explained it before (was it this thread, or another? does it even matter?), but I have been through such a damn kaleidoscope of politics that you can't even IMAGINE it. I've supported Reagan, I've supported Russia. I've believed in anarchy, communism, socialism, Marx was my homie. I've supported the Iraqi war and I've supported our stance on nuclear power. I went through a period where i was positive I was lesbian. Before that I couldn't imagine anyone even attempting to have sex with someone of the same sex. It disgusted me.

 

 

We're both the victims of stereotypes. I have come across so many "right wingers" who would lynch my best friend because he's gay. It's gotten the point that I just CANNOT TOLERATE that sort of talk. I seriously have feared for my friends life, and I've seen how unfair it is for him, how difficult. Jesus, only a few miles from me a guy went into a gay bar with a magnum and a hatchet and busted the place up. And I feel like our government and society is almost creating and nurturing this hatred. It's just wrong. And I cannot see how it's ok for people to be treated different, people not unlike you and I, to deny them liberties we take for granted. Liberties like going down the street hand in hand and not getting creeped out faces staring back. Liberties like visiting your dying lover in a hospital. Things that our government only allows a man and woman to take part in.

 

 

 

And I'm sure you've met a lot of crazy ass liberals (and jesus, they're fucking insane) who've pissed you off. Sadly, a lot of the things that I believe in end up being pigeon holed in with them.

 

 

 

 

Just, please stop calling me closed minded. I'm listening to you after all, aren't I? You remind me of myself 3 years ago, even. Really. Almost all the things you have said, I said at one point.

 

 

 

 

Marriage is a legal process. A marriage CEREMONY is religious.

 

 

Athiest get married, don't they? They don't get married in a church. They don't get married because they believe in GOD. They don't get married because they believe in that man and woman stuff. They get married so they can be on equal footing with the rest of society.

 

 

Society has molded marriage into what it is. And society can mold it into whatever it is to become.

 

 

But only if people stop, open their eyes, clear the red and blue away, and see things for what they are.;)

 

OMG SHE SAID 'FUCK'

 

SOMEBODY BAN HER!!!

[Marisa]

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

[an_cat]

I didn't say fuck in an insulting way, did I? Oh, that is if you're fucking insulting by my saying fuck fuck fuck fuck fucking shit fuck fuck?

 

 

 

You're a jerk, leave me alone. Ok? Just PLEASE don't talk to me.

[SrfSnwColdplay]

You think using 'big' words makes you seem smarter. Too bad it isn't working.

 

If you can't handle me, go cry or something to make yourself feel better about yourself or the level of intelligence you claim to have.

[Marisa]

What big words? Working for what?

I use my vocabulary. If you need to me apologize for it. I won't.

 

 

Like I said before, your condescending comments aren't anything to me.

[SrfSnwColdplay]

If my comments aren't anything to you, why do you respond?

[Marisa]

For the same reason you do.

[mc_squared]

Wow!! It seems that Dubya has caused World War III to break out in this thread without even intending for it to happen!!:o