Bush Proposes New Amendment to Congress

[GazeboflossUK]

It's also about everyone being able to gain the same status too...having the same rights and benefits that married couples are only privy to.

[an_cat]

True. I mean, this country was SUPPOSEDLY founded on the basis of freedom for all (even though it really wasn't, Jefferson was off doing his slave while writing the declaration of independence wasn't he? And women didn't get to vote 'til the 20s, didn't they? Amazing how two sided this place really is and was). So now we're sort of facing the same thing that we've faced in the past, a group of people who want equal rights, much like the blacks did in the 60s. So why can't we just do it for them? It's not going to hurt anyone. It's not going to shut the church down.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

you have been so far the only one I have seen practically bash homosexuals..... so, thats what I mean by toning it down...

 

be against homosexuality, all you want, that fine. Just be careful how you word things, thats all.

 

 

Anyhoo... back to topic..

 

 

this proposal is perposterous... why can't two people of the same sex get married?? I highly double that this will end human procreation... :rolleyes:

 

Why cant i marry my cat or my stuffed animal? because marriage was created for the puropose a man and women, its been that way since early man. the idea of marriage the very bases of it is for a man and women, nothing else.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

True. I mean' date=' this country was SUPPOSEDLY founded on the basis of freedom for all (even though it really wasn't, Jefferson was off doing his slave while writing the declaration of independence wasn't he? And women didn't get to vote 'til the 20s, didn't they? Amazing how two sided this place really is and was). So now we're sort of facing the same thing that we've faced in the past, a group of people who want equal rights, much like the blacks did in the 60s. So why can't we just do it for them? It's not going to hurt anyone. It's not going to shut the church down.[/quote']

 

Freedom for all has it limits. IE i cant have the freedom to take whatever i want. i dont have the freedom to kill, or kill in the name of my religion. freedom can only be taken so far before its dangerous. like in EVERYTHING their is limits.

[GazeboflossUK]

I thought you speaking horse shit had it's limits but it appears not.

Come on boy....think about what you are saying....what you say is very badly argued....it's just using extreme parallels as the bulk of what you say....and the rest is all for the sake of it.....awful.

 

And you do it all the time.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

I thought you speaking horse shit had it's limits but it appears not.

Come on boy....think about what you are saying....what you say is very badly argued....it's just using extreme parallels as the bulk of what you say....and the rest is all for the sake of it.....awful.

 

And you do it all the time.

 

No, not really, if 2 men can marry, why cant i have the freedom to marry my cat? why cant i have the freedom to marry a 4 yr old girl? huh where does it stop? marriage was CREATED for man and women and only them. the bullshit is spewing out of your mouth, not mine.

[Marisa]

What you demand for yourself, you can not deny for others.

 

Do you really want to marry your cat? what is the reasoning behind that? Is your cat employed and can contribute to the marriage finicially? Are you wanting to spend the rest of your life with a cat? Committed to a cat?

What a foolish example.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

What you demand for yourself, you can not deny for others.

 

Do you really want to marry your cat? what is the reasoning behind that? Is your cat employed and can contribute to the marriage finicially? Are you wanting to spend the rest of your life with a cat? Committed to a cat?

What a foolish example.

 

Yes you can. and you should at some points in time. exceptions for EVERY rule.

 

well why cant i marry the cat? i mean if marriage is for anyone and thing why cant it?

why cant i marry a little kid? i'd never do it or want to do it but there are sick people out there who do and would if they could, their has to be a line drawn. and since marriage was created for man and women it should stay that way.

[mc_squared]

I prefer: "Congress proposes new amendment to Bush"!!:P

[Marisa]

Marriage for things?

Sorry I haven't seen any things demand human rights.

Do you know what the whole purpose of marriage is? Not the religious aspect that you called sacred.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Marriage for things?

Sorry I haven't seen any things demand human rights.

Do you know what the whole purpose of marriage is? Not the religious aspect that you called sacred.

 

lets forget all about religion. marriage is a very old thing, and as a human it should be kept how it was made to be, between a man adn women. thats what it was created for nothing else.

[mc_squared]

lets forget all about religion. marriage is a very old thing' date=' and as a human it should be kept how it was made to be, between a man adn women. thats what it was created for nothing else.[/quote']

 

Marriage is now an obsolete institution.............................it belongs to mediaeval times!!:P

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Marriage is now an obsolete institution.............................it belongs to mediaeval times!!:P

 

it belongs to who it was created for, man and women.

[Marisa]

Marriage was never created. And if it was, who created it?

And the whole human part. Those gay couples are still humans, it's not like when you want to marry and you don't conform to the outrageous societal standards, that you suddenly become a non-human. If marriag was "created" by humans, then it applies to humans. Human rights.

 

Alright, we can discuss later. I have to go.

I love these threads, really get my post count up.

 

bye.

[mc_squared]

it belongs to who it was created for' date=' man and women.[/quote']

 

Maybe - but it's now meaningless. The majority of people pay the institution any respect even when they do marry - so who cares??

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Marriage was never created. And if it was, who created it?

And the whole human part. Those gay couples are still humans, it's not like when you want to marry and you don't conform to the outrageous societal standards, that you suddenly become a non-human. If marriag was "created" by humans, then it applies to humans. Human rights.

 

Alright, we can discuss later. I have to go.

I love these threads, really get my post count up.

 

bye.

 

no, marriage was not created for man and man or women and women, its for man and women, man and animal, man and anything else besides women. marriage is a old tradition ment for man and women ONLY.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Maybe - but it's now meaningless. The majority of people pay the institution any respect even when they do marry - so who cares??

 

obvisouly ALOT of people who still consider marriage something special.

[an_cat]

Glad to know you wrote the bible.:) Oh you people are so high and mighty.

 

 

The reason gays and lesbians want to marry are not because of religion (even though that IS a plus to it). They want the LEGAL RIGHTS that come along with it. That MAN created.

 

 

 

 

 

Learn some of the legal and practical ways that getting married changes your life.

 

Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there's no denying that it confers many rights, protections, and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits

 

* Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.

* Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

 

Estate Planning Benefits

 

* Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.

* Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.

* Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.

* Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse’s behalf.

 

Government Benefits

 

* Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.

* Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.

* Receiving public assistance benefits.

 

Employment Benefits

 

* Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.

* Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.

* Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.

* Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse’s close relatives dies.

 

Medical Benefits

 

* Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.

* Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

 

Death Benefits

 

* Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.

* Making burial or other final arrangements.

 

Family Benefits

 

* Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.

* Applying for joint foster care rights.

* Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.

* Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.

 

Housing Benefits

 

* Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."

* Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.

 

Consumer Benefits

 

* Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.

* Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.

* Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.

 

Other Legal Benefits and Protections

 

* Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).

* Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).

* Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can’t force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.

* Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.

* Obtaining domestic violence protection orders.

* Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.

* Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

 

 

 

 

 

So gays and lesbians don't deserve things that people take for granted, that are COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO RELIGION AND TRADITION.

[an_cat]

I deleted this post further up because it wasn't relevant to the debate' date=' and was quite frankly an extrmely nasty thing to say to somebody. [Jenjie']

Leaving the comment below because, although it doesn't fit into the marriage discussion, its still an opinion which isn't harming anyone. [Jenjie]

 

 

I probably will:) And I'll feel proud because I'll have known I was right about nuclear power being nothing but bad;) FOR EVERYONE.

 

 

 

 

 

I <3 Iran!:D :dozey:

[mc_squared]

I probably will:) And I'll feel proud because I'll have known I was right about nuclear power being nothing but bad;) FOR EVERYONE.

 

 

 

 

 

I <3 Iran!:D :dozey:

 

Except you wouldn't feel anything, 'cos you'd be dead!!:P

[GazeboflossUK]

Glad to know you wrote the bible.:) Oh you people are so high and mighty.

 

 

The reason gays and lesbians want to marry are not because of religion (even though that IS a plus to it). They want the LEGAL RIGHTS that come along with it. That MAN created.

 

 

 

 

 

Learn some of the legal and practical ways that getting married changes your life.

 

Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there's no denying that it confers many rights, protections, and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits

 

* Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.

* Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

 

Estate Planning Benefits

 

* Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.

* Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.

* Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.

* Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse’s behalf.

 

Government Benefits

 

* Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.

* Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.

* Receiving public assistance benefits.

 

Employment Benefits

 

* Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.

* Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.

* Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.

* Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse’s close relatives dies.

 

Medical Benefits

 

* Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.

* Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

 

Death Benefits

 

* Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.

* Making burial or other final arrangements.

 

Family Benefits

 

* Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.

* Applying for joint foster care rights.

* Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.

* Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.

 

Housing Benefits

 

* Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."

* Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.

 

Consumer Benefits

 

* Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.

* Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.

* Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.

 

Other Legal Benefits and Protections

 

* Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).

* Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).

* Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can’t force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.

* Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.

* Obtaining domestic violence protection orders.

* Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.

* Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

 

 

 

 

 

So gays and lesbians don't deserve things that people take for granted, that are COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO RELIGION AND TRADITION.

 

He'll come back with something as irritating as ever, just for the sake of it.

[an_cat]

Except you wouldn't feel anything, 'cos you'd be dead!!

 

That's a really really really good point!

 

 

 

ahahaha so basically that whole insulting argument is completely worthless. Then again, I think any argument that I've had with certain people on here has been worthless. No one is ever willing to listen and attempt to expand upon their closed minds. It's a damn shame.

[GazeboflossUK]

I know what you mean.....

At first, I remember wondering why gay people would want to be married (I was thinking the whole church wedding thing). I thought gay people would want to be as far away from the church as possible.....but then I remember after reading about it I saw the REAL reason why it was a decent issue.

 

Again it's sometimes not their own fault for having these silly views...Some people have just had the misfortune of being raised a certain way or are from a certain area and have had all this backwards logic grown insdie of them.....and they can't get it out.

 

But sometimes people are just people......awkward, senseless folk who have the worst possble views on abosloutely every situation and will argue it without even thinking one thought that came from their own mind. It's stuff they've heard from other sorces, like their family, their teachers, their president, their TV and the media.....people seem to have lost the ability to question things anymore....it's the way the media/gov have got people these days....speak up about something and your a nut job or even a possible international terrorist......I suppose this is also part of the way people are growing up....but either way, it's out of control.

 

 

 

We have the human instinct to know when everything is wrong, when things are going to get worse and we all need to use it.....it's to survive.

[mc_squared]

I know what you mean.....

At first, I remember wondering why gay people would want to be married (I was thinking the whole church wedding thing). I thought gay people would want to be as far away from the church as possible.....but then I remember after reading about it I saw the REAL reason why it was a decent issue.

 

Again it's sometimes not their own fault for having these silly views...Some people have just had the misfortune of being raised a certain way or are from a certain area and have had all this backwards logic grown insdie of them.....and they can't get it out of themselves.

 

But sometimes people are just people......awkward, senseless folk who have the worst possble views on abosloutely every situation and will argue it with even thinking with their own mind.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...................that sounds like a certain world leader!!:P

[an_cat]

Truer words have never been said.

 

 

It's almost like racism. Someone was on a show saying that they knew that black people weren't horrible, weren't anything they thought, but they just couldn't shake it because they had just been RAISED that way. They had the same idea towards women, that they were weak and useless. It's incredible what the environment you grow up in can do to your mind. (For the record, I'm not comparing racism to views towards gays, but hell it's still pretty similiar.)

 

 

I think another aspect of it is maturity. I've always felt that I think on a slightly higher level than a lot of people around me. The guys in my class are incredibly anti-gay, anti-liberal, pro-war, pro-guns, pro every "right wing" ideal you could whip up. I live in a completely white, completely Christian, completely republican, small town. It's absolutely sickening after living here for the amount of time I have. When we have debates in history class, the guys always talk about these stupid things like how weird gays are, and how marriage is for a man and a woman. They just spit out the same things I've heard thousands of people yapping on about. None of them know what marriage even IS (except something their parents are failing at). They talk like children who open their mouths, have a bunch of ideals and morals poured in, mixed around, then they spit it all back out. I, at least, have researched my stuff, I can back it up, I can discuss it in a calm and articulate way.

 

 

But they never care about that. And I don't know what gives people who happen to have those certain ideas the ability to be so damn dismissive and pigheaded. Maybe as they get older and their minds mature more they'll learn that sometimes you just need to shut up and listen.