Kanye West!

[deaths_friend]

so how are my young kanye fans going? listened to all the albums yet?

[Grace.]

^Are you referring to me there? :P

 

Either way... no. Not yet. :(

[deaths_friend]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc65hFCls8E]YouTube - ‪Kanye West - Gone [Late Registration]‬‏[/ame]

[[email protected].]

i just stumbled upon this one a few days ago. i think its the best of all the covers.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCQHd9PJzK4]Heartless Cover by William Fitzsimmons - YouTube[/ame]

[CurtisJ]

Kanye is my favorite rapper. His douchebag attitude can grate on my nerves but his music is real, and not only as a rap artist but his beliefs on popular culture and expanding what the Hip-Hop community is comfortable with i.e. genre experimenting, fashion, culture etc I think he sets a great example in that regard, especially me as a black guy who does like things like Coldplay, The Black Keys and H&M clothing instead of the baggy clothes and gangsta shit lol.

 

Also every single one of his albums are amazing. Truly truly outstanding, and so are his ventures with the artists on his GOOD music label. A couple of years ago he released a ton of free music before his album came out and it made up an amazing body of work, better than what most rappers sell for actual money nowadays.

[Mark]

This ^

 

The man is a true genius. The whole Taylor Swift thing is ridiculous; without delving into why what happened caused such a furore, there are race and gender issues there. What no one can deny is that Kanye has reinvented modern hip-hop, influenced R&B more than any other artist in the last decade, and he is continuing to meld disparate genres into his work. How many artists, regardless of genre would create an album as colourful, indulgent, versatile and yet cohesive as My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy?

 

He summed it up best when he said that he can't sing or dance, but he still wants to be the greatest popstar ever. He has more ambition than any two-bit pop puppet and he's someone that we should celebrate in a world of increasing mediocrity.

[CurtisJ]

This ^

 

The man is a true genius. The whole Taylor Swift thing is ridiculous; without delving into why what happened caused such a furore, there are race and gender issues there. What no one can deny is that Kanye has reinvented modern hip-hop, influenced R&B more than any other artist in the last decade, and he is continuing to meld disparate genres into his work. How many artists, regardless of genre would create an album as colourful, indulgent, versatile and yet cohesive as My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy?

 

He summed it up best when he said that he can't sing or dance, but he still wants to be the greatest popstar ever. He has more ambition than any two-bit pop puppet and he's someone that we should celebrate in a world of increasing mediocrity.

 

!!!

 

You scanned my mind.

[Violet]

The whole Taylor Swift thing is ridiculous; without delving into why what happened caused such a furore, there are race and gender issues there.

 

Could you please elaborate what you mean by this? I'm confused.

[Mark]

Could you please elaborate what you mean by this? I'm confused.

 

It's a delicate issue, but all I'll say is that I believe it was blown out of all proportion because West is a black, 30-something male, and Swift is an white female, and was a teenager at the time of the incident.

 

He did exactly the same thing to Justice - a pair of white, 30-something, French males - at another awards ceremony. No coverage whatsoever.

 

I'm not saying what he did was morally right, but if the incident had been Swift interrupting Kanye, I think it would've been laughed off. Institutionalized racism of the media? Maybe, but colour is only a single factor. The fact it was an older man stopping a young woman is more prominent, added to the fact that Taylor Swift is a blonde, American country singer... Well, she's very 'American', if you like. Can't help but feel that there wouldn't have been as much fuss if someone more Hispanic, like J-Lo had been involved.

 

For what it's worth, I respect him for standing up and saying what he thought. We all sit back and moan at the choice of winners during these things; Kanye had the balls to say what he thought, and I respect that. There are better ways of doing it, however...

[Italian Plastic]

not to mention that the taylor swift video sucked

[ARushOfLove]

Saw him live with Jay last week. Best time of my life. Seriously. :rolleyes4:

[CurtisJ]

Saw him live with Jay last week. Best time of my life. Seriously. :rolleyes4:

 

Oh my god! I had floor seats to Watch the Throne, best night of my life.

[The Red Army]

Yeah, I went to WTT Tour when it came to Toronto. Great night, even though I had seats in the 300 section.

 

Regarding Kanye, he's my favourite rapper along with Lupe. Also, I like Jay-Elec.

 

I still listen to College Dropout, family business being my favourite song possibly of all-time.

 

As much as I like Kanye though, 808's was pretty meh and forgettable, didn't enjoy that autotune era.

 

Listening to Devil in a New Dress right now.

[CurtisJ]

Yeah, I went to WTT Tour when it came to Toronto. Great night, even though I had seats in the 300 section.

 

Regarding Kanye, he's my favourite rapper along with Lupe. Also, I like Jay-Elec.

 

I still listen to College Dropout, family business being my favourite song possibly of all-time.

 

As much as I like Kanye though, 808's was pretty meh and forgettable, didn't enjoy that autotune era.

 

Listening to Devil in a New Dress right now.

 

I was at the Toronto show too! The Nov 23 one. If you were at the Nov 24 show then you're lucky because they performed *****s In Paris FIVE times! Me, it was three.

[The Red Army]

lol, I was at the same show as you, Nov. 23rd. NIP is such a hype song.

 

Thinking of going to OVO this year again as well, line-up looks nice. Last year it was good, but drake's setlist was kinda meh.

[CurtisJ]

lol, I was at the same show as you, Nov. 23rd. NIP is such a hype song.

 

Thinking of going to OVO this year again as well, line-up looks nice. Last year it was good, but drake's setlist was kinda meh.

 

2 Chainz annoying ass is enough to make me not wanna go to the OVO fest though lol, he's trash. And he is gaining popularity at an alarming rate.

[Prospector]

Kanye West changed Hip Hop from popular music to an art form, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is the best USA album of the last decade IMHO.

[para-para-parrotdies]

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is one of the most overrated albums in recent memory. The insane production masks the fact that 1) the album is way too long, making it an arduous task to listen to the album in one sitting; 2) most of the songs aren't very good - few killer singles and everything else is average; 3) Kanye's flow + songwriting is getting worse and worse.

 

This record embodies the old saying, "all style, no substance." Don't get me wrong, MBDTF isn't a bad album per se but it is an incredibly flawed album and did not deserve the overblown praise it got when it was first released. It was almost as if the critics were afraid to really say what they really thought about the album - groupthink anyone? Indeed, how many reviews actually talked about the music instead of going on and on about Kanye's personal life? It's thus unsurprising to see some of the critics start to reevaluate whether or not the album is the masterpiece they were making it out to be.

 

I'll take Madvillainy over MBDTF any day. Actually, I'll even take The College Dropout or Late Registration over MBDTF.

[Italian Plastic]

Kanye West changed Hip Hop from popular music to an art form, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is the best USA album of the last decade IMHO.

 

are you serious

 

I agree with parrotdies, it's super overrated. I appreciate that it's the album that got me really into hip hop and I still enjoy listening to it every now and then, but now after learning more about hip hop i can see that it never really was that good...

 

Madvillainy is the best hip hop album of all time in my opinion

 

oh and fuck you toronto people i wanna go to ovo fest

[Mark]

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is one of the most overrated albums in recent memory. The insane production masks the fact that 1) the album is way too long, making it an arduous task to listen to the album in one sitting; 2) most of the songs aren't very good - few killer singles and everything else is average; 3) Kanye's flow + songwriting is getting worse and worse.

 

This record embodies the old saying, "all style, no substance." Don't get me wrong, MBDTF isn't a bad album per se but it is an incredibly flawed album and did not deserve the overblown praise it got when it was first released. It was almost as if the critics were afraid to really say what they really thought about the album - groupthink anyone? Indeed, how many reviews actually talked about the music instead of going on and on about Kanye's personal life? It's thus unsurprising to see some of the critics start to reevaluate whether or not the album is the masterpiece they were making it out to be.

 

I'll take Madvillainy over MBDTF any day. Actually, I'll even take The College Dropout or Late Registration over MBDTF.

 

You make some fair points, but I still believe it's the greatest hip-hop record in recent memory.

 

Firstly, albums are often judged by the artist in reviews. I don't think that's a bad thing to be honest; obviously not every musician is as good as the next, but that shouldn't hinder anyone who wants to make good music. I think that the reason that bands like the Beatles, Stone Roses and Oasis were so huge is not only because of the music, but because they're working class people who can't read or write music. If Radiohead had created something as huge as My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, it would've been praised, but critics would've picked up on the flaws you point out. As it is, it was Kanye, a man who's spent his life living in Jay-Z's shadows and appointed protegees, Kid Cudi and Lupe Fiasco, who are both handier than him when it comes to penning lyrics. The fact that Kanye is the name on the album is important; no one expected someone like him to create something like that.

 

Secondly, the College Dropout and Late Registration are both actually longer than My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. Not only longer in length, but there are eight more tracks on each; My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy may only have four tracks under five minutes (plus the All of the Lights interlude and Who Will Survive in America), but I'd say only So Appalled outstays its welcome and goes on too long.

 

Thirdly, you talk about style over substance, but I believe there's a fair deal of substance on this record. Kanye's lyrics are more varied in subject on My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy and he seems to often torture himself in songs like Runaway, something he's never done, but something that sounds extremely natural for him, and is often quite affecting. It depends how you judge someone lyrically of course, but he's not only become more thoughtful and quotable on this record, but he's using his voice in different ways, via singing, contorting it on Runaway, the effects on Blame Game etc. He seems to effortlessly match the backing; if the track needs egotist, brand-dropping Kanye, he delivers something of Power calibre, if the track needs wounded, heartbroken Kanye, he delivers Runaway. Which by the way, is one of the greatest R&B ballads of the past decade.

 

If you want more substance, Nicki Minaj's verse is quite simply earth-shattering (and the only decent thing she's ever recorded), Rihanna, John Legend Bon Iver, Pusha T, Elton John and Jay-Z all turn in performances that rank alongside their solo work, and the choice of samples - from the chorus of Dark Fantasy, to King Crimson in Power, Bon Iver in Lost in the World, Manfredd Mann, Aphex Twin and the late great Gil Scott-Heron - it's all simply inspired. No one else has ever been so diverse, and no one is trying what Kanye was trying when this was released. The greats I named earlier also released records that pushed against what was going on in music and delivered what was actually needed; OK Computer, Revolver, Stone Roses, Definitely Maybe. If we're talking hip-hop, what does My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy mean in 2010 that the Blueprint didn't in 2001? What about The Low End Theory, the Marshall Mathers LP or Three Feet High and Rising?

 

The album's received such acclaim because it's just simply so ambitious, so lushly textured and so finely detailed. And all of this from an arrogant, clumsy producer-come rapper who many thought had already reached his peak. It sounds - to me - like the album that Coldplay were trying to make on Mylo Xyloto; I've heard fun. and the Big Pink claim that it's been a major influence to them, and I'm sure that it'll go down as one of the most influential records of the decade.

[CurtisJ]

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is one of the most overrated albums in recent memory. The insane production masks the fact that 1) the album is way too long, making it an arduous task to listen to the album in one sitting; 2) most of the songs aren't very good - few killer singles and everything else is average; 3) Kanye's flow + songwriting is getting worse and worse.

 

This record embodies the old saying, "all style, no substance." Don't get me wrong, MBDTF isn't a bad album per se but it is an incredibly flawed album and did not deserve the overblown praise it got when it was first released. It was almost as if the critics were afraid to really say what they really thought about the album - groupthink anyone? Indeed, how many reviews actually talked about the music instead of going on and on about Kanye's personal life? It's thus unsurprising to see some of the critics start to reevaluate whether or not the album is the masterpiece they were making it out to be.

 

I'll take Madvillainy over MBDTF any day. Actually, I'll even take The College Dropout or Late Registration over MBDTF.

 

Rap albums in general are long, it's not the standard 11-13 tracks, naturally rap albums are very lengthly.

[CurtisJ]

You make some fair points, but I still believe it's the greatest hip-hop record in recent memory.

 

Firstly, albums are often judged by the artist in reviews. I don't think that's a bad thing to be honest; obviously not every musician is as good as the next, but that shouldn't hinder anyone who wants to make good music. I think that the reason that bands like the Beatles, Stone Roses and Oasis were so huge is not only because of the music, but because they're working class people who can't read or write music. If Radiohead had created something as huge as My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, it would've been praised, but critics would've picked up on the flaws you point out. As it is, it was Kanye, a man who's spent his life living in Jay-Z's shadows and appointed protegees, Kid Cudi and Lupe Fiasco, who are both handier than him when it comes to penning lyrics. The fact that Kanye is the name on the album is important; no one expected someone like him to create something like that.

 

Secondly, the College Dropout and Late Registration are both actually longer than My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. Not only longer in length, but there are eight more tracks on each; My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy may only have four tracks under five minutes (plus the All of the Lights interlude and Who Will Survive in America), but I'd say only So Appalled outstays its welcome and goes on too long.

 

Thirdly, you talk about style over substance, but I believe there's a fair deal of substance on this record. Kanye's lyrics are more varied in subject on My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy and he seems to often torture himself in songs like Runaway, something he's never done, but something that sounds extremely natural for him, and is often quite affecting. It depends how you judge someone lyrically of course, but he's not only become more thoughtful and quotable on this record, but he's using his voice in different ways, via singing, contorting it on Runaway, the effects on Blame Game etc. He seems to effortlessly match the backing; if the track needs egotist, brand-dropping Kanye, he delivers something of Power calibre, if the track needs wounded, heartbroken Kanye, he delivers Runaway. Which by the way, is one of the greatest R&B ballads of the past decade.

 

If you want more substance, Nicki Minaj's verse is quite simply earth-shattering (and the only decent thing she's ever recorded), Rihanna, John Legend Bon Iver, Pusha T, Elton John and Jay-Z all turn in performances that rank alongside their solo work, and the choice of samples - from the chorus of Dark Fantasy, to King Crimson in Power, Bon Iver in Lost in the World, Manfredd Mann, Aphex Twin and the late great Gil Scott-Heron - it's all simply inspired. No one else has ever been so diverse, and no one is trying what Kanye was trying when this was released. The greats I named earlier also released records that pushed against what was going on in music and delivered what was actually needed; OK Computer, Revolver, Stone Roses, Definitely Maybe. If we're talking hip-hop, what does My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy mean in 2010 that the Blueprint didn't in 2001? What about The Low End Theory, the Marshall Mathers LP or Three Feet High and Rising?

 

The album's received such acclaim because it's just simply so ambitious, so lushly textured and so finely detailed. And all of this from an arrogant, clumsy producer-come rapper who many thought had already reached his peak. It sounds - to me - like the album that Coldplay were trying to make on Mylo Xyloto; I've heard fun. and the Big Pink claim that it's been a major influence to them, and I'm sure that it'll go down as one of the most influential records of the decade.

 

!!!!!!

 

You are GOD to me.

[Prospector]

are you serious

 

I agree with parrotdies, it's super overrated. I appreciate that it's the album that got me really into hip hop and I still enjoy listening to it every now and then, but now after learning more about hip hop i can see that it never really was that good...

 

Madvillainy is the best hip hop album of all time in my opinion

 

oh and fuck you toronto people i wanna go to ovo fest

 

Sorry :disappointed: I just showed my feelings about it

[para-para-parrotdies]

At first, I was going to reply with a snarky post, something along the lines of "just listen to Madvillainy." But then I realized you took some time to post a response to my premises so I feel I should do the same.

 

The fact that Kanye is the name on the album is important; no one expected someone like him to create something like that.

 

I think the image that Kanye built for himself on Twitter and other media appearances excused some of the overblown songs on the album. The critics were prone to saying stuff like, "oh this song is just an extension of his image and personality so it's ok."

 

Secondly, the College Dropout and Late Registration are both actually longer than My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.

 

Yeah, I'm aware of this fact. I was speaking more to the fact that the songs are so over-the-top that it all starts to blend in, making it feel longer; just absolutely exhausting to start from finish. This is not helped by the fact that the few low-key songs on the album are so boring that they just make the album drag on and on. There was definitely more variation with his first two albums. More energy.

 

Thirdly, you talk about style over substance, but I believe there's a fair deal of substance on this record.

 

Sorry, what subject material does Kanye tackle in MBDTF that he didn't before on previous outputs? Not to mention that his flow is getting progressively worse, making the lyrical clunkers stand out more.

 

No one else has ever been so diverse, and no one is trying what Kanye was trying when this was released.

 

I hope you don't mean the choice of samples on MBDTF are inspired or diverse in either the variety or scope. Because both premises are objectively false.

 

Sure, I might have agreed with your assertion if I hadn't already listened to DJ Shadow's Endtroducing...... That album came out in 1996, 14 years before the release of MBDTF. Or if I hadn't already listened to The Avalanches' Since I Left You, which utilized over 3,500 vinyl samples. Look for yourself:

 

Here's the song Since I Left You:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nurwPTUD3nU]THE AVALANCHES / Since I Left You - YouTube[/ame]

 

And here's a look at how the samples were used to create the song:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zehvICx-Rsg]The Avalanches - Since I Left You (The Samples) - YouTube[/ame]

 

Now compare with how Kanye utilized his samples:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TSDc0vZMkc]Samples from My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - YouTube[/ame]

 

Seems lazy in comparison doesn't it? You mentioned Gil Scott-Heron but how is the sample actually being used? Who Will Survive in America is literally just using a shortened version of Comment No.1; in layman's terms, it's pretty much the equivalent of CTRL+C, CTRL+V. Compare that with how Jamie xx used Gil Scott-Heron samples on We're New Here.

 

But wait! Those aren't actually rap albums right? So maybe you're still right that no rapper was as inspired as Kanye before the release of MBDTF? Again, I might agree with this premise if Madvillainy didn't come out in 2004, 6 years before MBDTF. Madvillainy samples sources like Steve Reich, the film Casablanca and the Street Fighter II video game. So sorry if I don't buy the claim that MBDTF is somehow innovative. It's not.

 

When talking about MBDTF, I think about a conversation with one of my good friends. She and I were having brunch and somehow, the topic of Kanye came up. When I asked her if she had a chance to listen to MBDTF, she said something along the lines of, "I don't normally like rap music but I actually enjoy listening to this album."

 

At the time, I didn't think much of that comment but as I think more about it, I think it accurately describes why it got so much praise when the album first came out. The production on the album is astonishing, not too surprising considering this was Kanye's forte from the very beginning of his career. MBDTF does a very good job of combining a little bit of everything from previous releases into one shiny package. It's easy to get enticed by the hooks and the beats. But for someone like me who's already seen these tricks from other artists, I focus more on the substance and it's just not there.

 

tl;dr version: MBDTF is a good, yet flawed album. Not a masterpiece. Also, listen to Madvillainy.

[Destrokk]

nobody can say wether something is the best of all time because it´s all an opinion

 

like how kanye west showed his opinion about beyonce