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When people say X&Y was "overproduced".


IneedYou23

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What do I mean whenever I say it was overproduced?

 

I guess pro tooled to death would be another way of putting it.

 

Too dense, too many layers, and too slick- no humanity, and no room for the songs to breathe. It has some great songs on it but the arrangements take away from those songs rather than adding to them. They became so obsessed with making sure every little layer was perfect that they lost sight of the big picture (what made the songs work) and erased all of the little flaws that make a recording sound like it came from a time and place and person.

 

Songs that have been played live by the band take on a different energy that was missing from the album. Instead every element was isolated so they never had a chance to figure out what made the songs work. (Old classic albums didn't have the technology to isolate and tinker, they had to play together and record at once, and the results were great- everything had to work together before they recorded it.) And when those slick perfectly polished tracks they had recorded didn't quite work right they would try to make them work by adding layer after layer after layer of stuff instead of stripping the song back and figuring out what ought to be there.

 

I love electronic sounds. I love complex layered things. But those layers need to exist for a reason and these didn't, it was more a matter of I want this sound on here just because I want to use that style in a song sometime (See 'What If'). Listen to how Imogen Heap works for example- hundreds of complex little layers. But they work together. Every sound is there for a reason, the sounds work together, and there are still empty spaces and quiet bits and little pauses that give the music dynamics.

 

There's a bizarre (but good) classical-ish group I heard of recently called Quartetto Gelato. When I saw them on TV once, the four members mainly played a violin, an accordion, a cello, and an oboe. They were commenting in one segment that it seems like an odd mix of instruments at first but it works. It works because there are actually two bowed string instruments and two reed instruments and the sounds of the two pairs blend together then compliment each other. Traditional rock bands work on a similar principal. They all play plucked or strummed string instruments- guitars and bass, and then there's enough going on with the drums to make them sound like they belong. Pianos work well in the mix because they are a hammered string instrument- not too different from plucked. When an electronic effect or two is added, it works by giving the guitars contrast- think old fashioned electric organs in classic rock songs. Everything has a place and a purpose.

 

When you throw in everything and the kitchen sink sonically, it can sound ok but it's not going to add more meaning to the songs. Plus some people's minds are going to reject it because of the meaningless density- which is why X&Y gets such hot and cold reactions from people. It's like if you make swamp water at a soda fountain. There's a point where if you get enough different types of pop in your drink, it doesn't matter which flavors you picked, swamp water will always taste the same. Out of orange pop? Doesn't matter- you won't miss it. Don't want the caffeine from Coke? No problem. It will still taste like swamp water. Want it to be sweeter? Add extra root beer- but it will still be extra sweet swamp water. Coldplay did the same thing with sounds.

 

The Hardest part proves this best if you have an ear for chords. A major chord is made of 3 notes. You change the type of chord by shifting one of those notes- turning major to minor for example. Then you can add notes on top to change the way the chord sounds- adding a 7th note to a minor chord, for example. BUT to sound like a minor 7th chord, you need to be able to hear that 7th note really clearly. The piano version of the Hardest Part sounds so great and so intense because it has some great chords and you can hear them really clearly. Now compare that to the album version- here is a song that works really well as a self contained piano song, but they decided they wanted to take it in a jangly direction. So they layered all these extra guitars and other sounds on top. It works well for the style, but all those layers bury the chords that make the song what it was originally meant to be. You can't even hear the notes that make a certain type of chord what it is. The most an ear can pick up is if a chord is major or minor, not if it's an 11th (one of Chris' favorites) or a 7th, or if the bass note has been changed or if it's a suspended chord. A glance at the different tabs on Ultimate guitar proves me right- every one is quite different in how it's stylized. And when all you can make out is major or minor, songs get boring fast- like when your kid brother who is just learning guitar for the first time plays variations of the same 3 chords for every single song. Everything that makes the structure of the song interesting is lost in the sonic goo because even if you don't know what suspended or 7th means, you know that that chord feels different, and that makes the song sound different and interesting.

 

Hearing the acoustic piano version of the Hardest Part was a revelation for me. I had no idea up to that point that it was structurally as sophisticated as it is. I think it's fair to say neither did the critics. The single version of "What If" is a remix of some sort. I have no idea why I like that version so much more than the album version because there's so much going on that I still can't figure out what changed. I'm guessing a few of those layers were stripped off. Whatever it is, even minor changes in the mix made a big difference.

 

I say "overproduced" because all those extra layers, the ones that take up space without adding much are added at the production and mixing stage after the main body of the song has been recorded, and because that process of picking apart each layer and only choosing ones that are technically perfect is a production process.

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The single version of "What If" is a remix of some sort. I have no idea why I like that version so much more than the album version because there's so much going on that I still can't figure out what changed. I'm guessing a few of those layers were stripped off. Whatever it is, even minor changes in the mix made a big difference.

 

What IS the difference between the album version and the single version?!! Did anyone EVER figure it out?!? :\:thinking:

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I agree with most of the stuff that's been said before me, but I still have to say that I really love X+Y. It's not by favourite by a long way, as that title undoubtedly goes to VLVODAAHF or AROBTTH, but X+Y is still an amazing album - although I suppose I am a little biased because Coldplay, to me, are pure perfection and nothing they make could ever be bad :laugh3: However, I think a lot of people didn't like the fact that they went from being very acoustic, very 'organic' to a lot more 'electric' sound and quite a bit more modern than the first two albums were. Saying that, as a few people have already said, there were heaps of songs on here that were still very traditional Coldplay like A Message, Fix You etc. all brilliant love ballads and the like. IMHO though, X+Y was still a fantastic album that I think is criticised quite unfairly. And as Chris said, they really liked it and I think the fans should be happy with what the band are happy with :) if that made any sense at all :lol:

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^I agree, there's a gem of an album hidden in there. They were young and made a lot of production mistakes that inexperienced bands make, but that doesn't mean the songs themselves are bad.

 

I often wonder what it would sound like if they recorded it knowing what they know now. What would the tracklisting be? What sorts of instruments would they use?

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I like the album but I believe that it was too damn long...

 

Songs that needed to be shorter or just not on the album IMO:

 

What If

Speed Of Sound

A Message

Low

 

Though in all honesty, I think that Speed Of Sound should have been removed from the album, to me it's totally unnecessary... especially as a single.

 

To me, this would have been the perfect X&Y album:

 

1. Square One (should have been a single)

2. White Shadows

3. Fix You

4. Talk

5. X&Y (should have been a single)

6. A Message

7. The Hardest Part

8. Swallowed In The Sea

9. Things I Don't Understand

10. Till Kingdom Come

11. How You See The World

12. Twisted Logic

 

 

To me this would have been the perfect X&Y album.

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So since X&Y came out in 2005 critics and fans often say that the album was overproduced.I love X&Y,and I dont really understand what people mean when they say it was overproduced.Is it the synths or the way Chris voice sounds?To me it sounds perfect.But I guess if you are nit picky about that stuff then you can hear the difference.But I dont really get all caught up in that stuff.I just want to enjoy the music!But if you guys could kind of give some examples as to why people state this that would be helpful!Thanks!!

 

I agree. X&Y has always been my favorite CP album. Though, AROBTTH is slowly catching up.

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X&Y is my fav. album because is the one that made me love Coldplay... when I found Fix You, well it always sounds bad... but I think it changed a little my life and world and that's when I started to LOVE them and love music.

It was critisized because it was too long but I think that's better. There are very good songs, like Talk, FY, SITS, Til kingdom....

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I do love X&Y however I do feel like theres just too much in it.

 

And I also find the actual song X&Y to be completly terrible. If that was the only Coldplay song somebody has ever heared, more than likely they will think that the band is a joke. At least thats how I feel.

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I like the album but I believe that it was too damn long...

 

 

 

For sure. I think that's a lesson the band learned from X&Y and they were determined to not make that mistake again. Chris has said that he wished it were 3 songs shorter. I'd love to know which 3 he'd drop. Some are so repetitious which, again, was acknowledged by the band. Chris joked that with X&Y they plagiarized themselves. I respect them for acknowledging what didn't work and changing it up.

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Songs that needed to be shorter or just not on the album IMO:

 

What If

Speed Of Sound

A Message

Low

 

Definately. Low was just way, way too long. It's the longest song on the album, and one of my least favourites! :shrug:

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I understand why some people don't like X&Y, but I loved it when it came out and still love it now. It's got some great songs. Yeah, it's more produced than VLV, but I don't think we would have VLV without the band having gone through their X&Y phase. I like to think of X&Y as a musical phase that Coldplay went through - dealing with the huge expectations on their shoulders, the "big band" sound, learning how to keep the Coldplay sound but not be restricted by those expectations, etc. - that brought us the band's fantastic new direction on VLV - and when I think of X&Y that way, how could I possibly not love it? :D

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Personally, I love X & Y. It would have been so much better if they shortened it though. It's a little too long, and most of the songs have the same electronic sound to them. I love Swallowed in the Sea, Fix You (obviously), and What If...but I'm going to have to say they should have cut Twisted Logic, Square One, etc. :\

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I like the album but I believe that it was too damn long...

 

Songs that needed to be shorter or just not on the album IMO:

 

What If

Speed Of Sound

A Message

Low

 

Though in all honesty, I think that Speed Of Sound should have been removed from the album, to me it's totally unnecessary... especially as a single.

 

To me, this would have been the perfect X&Y album:

 

1. Square One (should have been a single)

2. White Shadows

3. Fix You

4. Talk

5. X&Y (should have been a single)

6. A Message

7. The Hardest Part

8. Swallowed In The Sea

9. Things I Don't Understand

10. Till Kingdom Come

11. How You See The World

12. Twisted Logic

 

 

To me this would have been the perfect X&Y album.

 

I would have chosen exactly the same songs. I rarely listen to Low or What if.

I like X&Y but there's some kind of atmosphere missing on it that you have on the other albums.Fix you is a great song but the album as a whole is a little...cold, I guess.

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