i'm just wondering, what are your thoughts on circumcision?

 

i'm not religious or anything, so feel free to say whatever u feel...

i'm just wondering, what are your thoughts on circumcision?

 

i'm not religious or anything, so feel free to say whatever u feel...

Me neither, that's why I see it as a rather barbaric tradition(no offence).

I mean, if you wash regulary, your organ is gonna be just as hygienic.And if they do it to a baby it's just not fair, I mean what if a kid finds it inconvenient later in life, he had no control over his body.

I mean what does a God gain from a "cutted penis".

 

But I actually wanted to know whats this thing about Jew hatered, I mean I hear Jew this, Jew that, but out of context of current situation.I'd like to know historical reasons.

well, i learnt ALOT about antisemitism at school because well, it's part of our history, so it's taught alot.

There are many reasons why it started- blaming Jesus' crucifiction (sp?) on the jews, some murder cases which later were prove to be only propaganda and not really commited by jew. It's all sorts of things- the jewish community abroad was actually mixing in with the rest of the community, but still was different. So things just happenned. I think that a minority in any country can be easily blamed for all the problems within the country. And i'm pretty sure that didnt only happen with the jews.

 

about circumcision, to be honest, i really dont know where it says this needs to be done (i'm not very knowledgable when it comes to religious traditions). However, all baby jewish boys do get circumsized. Many parents now take their baby to a doctor that's also a MOhel (circumciser), so that it's more safe. All I know is I heard that what they remove is actually healthier that it's not there, and some adult males that aren't jewsih choose to do it, or parents who do it to their babies out of choice (non jewish ppl). And I think it's better to do it when it's a baby because the healing is better. That's what I understand anyways.

But it is a pretty weird tradition I guess, there's always a party for it and eveything (like anyone wants to see that done!!!). I once saw a stand up comic laughing about it. He was like "Religion makes u do funny things. You know, God created man kind in it's image (or however it is in english) and the man is God's greatest creation, except for the penus part. That part he screwed up..."

well... it was funny when I heard it :)

Well to use the chance while I can what's the thing with beards, and thoose things around hands?

Btw isn't the term Jew, somewhat ambiguos.Does one become a Jew by converting to Judaism, and what's with the non religious Jews, how are they defined?

I'm non religious. Being non religious and being defined as a jew I think would be like being deifned as a non religious catholic. It's in the more traditional sense of being jewish- celebrating the holidays (like u would christmas or easter) but not keeping all the commandments such as fasting at Yom Kippur, "saving Sabbath"- which pretty much means you cant do anything on saturday other than eat and sleep, or all the prayer etc. You're also not suppose to eat meat and dairy together, or bread during passover and stuff like that.

All the beards and clothing like how ppl image religous jews to be are things that evovled during the years through interpritations of the bible and stuff like that. I dont wanna say anything because I really have never studied this. I can find out and tell u more :)

That red braclet is from the Kabbala. A religious organization that's suppose to be very spiritual. I dont know much about it either :-/

the people with the beards are called "Hassids", and from what I get it's one flow of judaism that grew, and religious jews are usually related with these ppl. However, there are religious jews that are more moderate

 

I found some info about it on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassid

 

i'm heading off to bed now, because i've got to get up early for work tomorrow. But I'll see u around. Bye bye, good night :)

ok let me ask this... (I am learning so much in here today!) -- a few pages back we had a discussion with Jewish being considered a race and not a religion.. I had said that it is indeed a religion and not literally a race... mrcool (Nick) said that it wasn't because most people think of it as a race....

 

so, now I pose the question to you... how to you view it, and in fact.. could you tell us what it is.. I still say its a religion..

 

*gets her notepad out to take more notes and ready to learn* :nice:

I meant the sort of black spiral strap, that I've seen only in males(on tv of course, so I don't know i females wear it.)

But you see, if you don't profess Catholicism at all, or anymore, you've still part of the certain nation.

But what is a Jew that isn't a Jew? :)

a non-practicing Jew? :huh:

ok let me ask this... (I am learning so much in here today!) -- a few pages back we had a discussion with Jewish being considered a race and not a religion.. I had said that it is indeed a religion and not literally a race... mrcool (Nick) said that it wasn't because most people think of it as a race....

 

so, now I pose the question to you... how to you view it, and in fact.. could you tell us what it is.. I still say its a religion..

 

*gets her notepad out to take more notes and ready to learn* :nice:

You shoud take info from Nick with a grain of salt, after all, to him Catholics are not Christians(I still can't belive how he could say something so stupid), maybe he could learn new words from other places than Foxnews.

 

Imo, Jews are not a race, because I was always thought that there are basicly 3 different races.Europeids, including western civilization, northern Africa, mid east, latin America, and Australia and New Zealand.

Mongoloids who are Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and some other.

Negroids who generally occupy Africa.Now I'm not totally sure about this, like where aboriginals and indians belong, I belive Mongoloids.

Well, this is all interesting stuff, and one of the reasons I'd like to study Anthropology.

You shoud take info from Nick with a grain of salt, after all, to him Catholics are not Christians(I still can't belive how he could say something so stupid), maybe he could learn new words from other places than Foxnews.

 

Imo, Jews are not a race, because I was always thought that there are basicly 3 different races.Europeids, including western civilization, northern Africa, mid east, latin America, and Australia and New Zealand.

Mongoloids who are Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and some other.

Negroids who generally occupy Africa.Now I'm not totally sure about this, like where aboriginals and indians belong, I belive Mongoloids.

Well, this is all interesting stuff, and one of the reasons I'd like to study Anthropology.

 

:lol: I agree on Nick.. he's 'special' isn't he... lol

you're the sort of person who thinks that their opinion is the right and see other people as stupid if they disagree. You just said it yourself. To me that's arrogance.

and it also seems like u think u know everything about anything. Well newsfalsh- you dont!

 

 

Well, I can see that I might be seen in this light but trust me I only want what is best and I don't see things like alot of people - I do so much reading of news and government documents...it would melt my brain to try and write it all down here.....

 

I just get really frustrated & tired with people not understanding the bigger picture......we are fighting amongst ourselves and it's all going around in circles really. This is very useful (in the wider sense) to those who are fueling this "war" as it takes the heat away from them.

 

I really don't want to be seen as the "wanker" but I really can't help it sometimes....it's like people are just ignoring some pretty important evidence....

 

anyway....

 

I'm going to have a wash....I'm all sweaty & dirty from playing footabll. ;)

Hello Green Eyes & to all Hello!!

Having grown up in a family with lingering antisemitism, it took me a while to understand what's up with this insanity! You've already got a pretty clear understanding, but for me, piecing it together took a while... To start with, my ancestors came from Germany prior to WWI. The best I can figure is that the Jewish people in Germany (who were pretty much ordinary Germans, but retained their religious identity) filled the roles of bankers more than anyone else in that country. People of the Christian faith were forbid to lend money (you were just supposed to give it generously to help a fellow Christian, who then had no obligation to pay it back!). An idea that wouldn't work, as one should expect! So, those Jewish Germans naturally acted as bankers, and excelled at it. Then, because one of the Apostles (Paul, as I recall) had been trying to convert more Romans to the Christian faith, he had to re-write part of the bible a little bit. The business of the Pharisees (scholarly Jewish priests) having turned Jesus into the authorities and forcing the Romans into a no-win situation, where the Romans had to execute Jesus to follow Roman law, was added later. It was actually the Romans who, in all likelihood, caught, tried, convicted, and executed Jesus for being an insurrectionist! But Paul was trying to convert Romans who wanted a better faith than the pantheon of Gods and Goddesses, so he fudged the novel a bit, to make the Romans look less guilty, and get their support for the fledgling Christian faith.

Ever since then, it was pretty easy for power-obsessed people, looking for a scapegoat, to blame the jewish europeans for anything that went wrong! (Ironically, Jesus was jewish, and yet these Europeans were persecuting Jewish members of their own countries! makes no sense to me either!)

And, that brings me back to what went wrong in our family. Not that my family's horrible - just a little mixed up on this one issue.

Grandpa had cousins in Germany prior to the Great Depression, and they had just borrowed heavily to finance the cost of new farm machinery. Then the Depression hit, and Germany was devastated economically. So, the loans still had to be repaid (no bail out programs back then!), and they lost the farms they had originally mortgaged to get the loans. They blamed the jewish bankers who had lent them the money and had sold their land in lieu of debts owed! It wasn't the banker's fault, nor the farmers - it was bad decisions by investors (many American), an impossible war debt to the allies, and a bad decision to try and print themselves out of their obligations by the German Government way back then that led to the failue. But, when things go bad, people look to blame SOMEONE, and guess who got the blame! So, there was always this lingering angst against anyone who was of the jewish faith, even though our family had very little contact with anyone of the jewish faith! It took me a while to figure it out, and I have no such resentment - but a much better understanding of how people get scapegoated or mislabelled!

Probably, and this is just me trying to make sense of it, what's going on there in the Holy Lands, is akin to what one might expect under the circumstances. Israel is a modern state, and just like the US or any other modern state, reacts strongly to any attack or percieved threat. And, that danger is mighty close to home!! So, millitary planners, knowing mainly millitary "solutions", use what they practice, which if often more than is necessary, and can lead to more tragedy in trying to obtain justice.

Levelling a town because some terrorists are digging tunnels and smuggling arms there makes no sense - it's way out of porportion to the threat, and I can only see that as creating fodder for more extremists, as there's gonna be a lot more unhappy people after that happens! The US does the same - I spoke to an Iraqi vet who was there when the US levelled part of Bagdad, because the insurgents were hiding out there. It always backfires, but I can see why the orders are given - it gets the enemy (and inflames the hatred of thousands upon thousands of otherwise amenable people! - that part usually isn't entered into the initial calculus). So, I think we need to put our best foot forward. Be as careful, as justified in our actions, and as thoughtful of acting as though we were dealing with the problem right in our own neighborhood. The majority of Palestinians are good, descent, honest folks, as well as the Israelis, just as US citizens and Iraqis are descent, or anywhere else, for that matter. As long as we remember to walk a mile in the moccasins of those other folks, well be alright, and make much better decisions!

One final thought - Beware of the People running the Pep Rallies! I like a good game as well as the next person, but I'm keenly aware of how we can get caught up in the fever of the moment, and all too easily forget that we are all human, all of the same family. Considering that our current President was once a Cheer Leader for Yale, I think he still sees things in those terms. Us and them. Black and white. North and south. Not a good trait for someone dealing with a complex world!! I love the Teams, Nations, and Religions of the world for the Enthusiasm - Color, Spectacle, and Meaning - they bring to life, but hope we remember to stay connected on a Human and Spiritual level above it all.

 

 

As far a circumcisions are concerned, I'm told that there's less chance of disease or infection, and that's the whole reason for it. So, it sounds logical! But why then would we have features that might get infected? This isn't very smart, evolutionarily speaking! But, then our appendix runs a risk of infection as well, though that does have some function, albeit minor. Maybe just an evolutionary spare part, that hasn't been discarded yet from the playing deck?? Beats the heck out of me!!!

 

LongWindedly Yours,:juggle:

-Chuck

UK Govt Sources Confirm War With Iran Is On

 

Op-Ed News | July 24, 2006

by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed

 

UK Govt Sources Confirm War With Iran Is On

In the last few days, I learned from a credible and informed source that a former senior Labour government Minister, who continues to be well-connected to British military and security officials, confirms that Britain and the United States

 

"... will go to war with Iran before the end of the year."

 

As we now know from similar reporting prior to the invasion of Iraq, it's quite possible that the war planning may indeed change repeatedly, and the war may again be postponed. In any case, it's worth noting that the information from a former Labour Minister corroborates expert analyses suggesting that Israel, with US and British support, is deliberately escalating the cycle of retaliation to legitimize the imminent targeting of Iran before year's end. Let us remind ourselves, for instance, of US Vice President Cheney's assertions recorded on MSNBC over a year ago. He described Iran as being "right at the top of the list" of "rogue states". He continued: "One of the concerns people have is that Israel might do it without being asked... Given the fact that Iran has a stated policy that their objective is the destruction of Israel, the Israelis might well decide to act first, and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterwards."

 

But the emphasis on Israel's pre-eminent role in a prospective assault on Iran is not accurate. Israel would rather play the role of a regional proxy force in a US-led campaign. "Despite the deteriorating security situation in Iraq, the Bush Administration has not reconsidered its basic long-range policy goal in the Middle East..." reports Seymour Hersh. He quotes a former high-level US intelligence official as follows:

 

"This is a war against terrorism, and Iraq is just one campaign. The Bush Administration is looking at this as a huge war zone. Next, we're going to have the Iranian campaign. We've declared war and the bad guys, wherever they are, are the enemy. This is the last hurrah-we've got four years, and want to come out of this saying we won the war on terrorism."

 

Are these just the fanatical pipedreams of the neoconservative faction currently occupying (literally) the White House?

 

Unfortunately, no. The Iraq War was one such fanatical pipedream in the late 1990s, one that Bush administration officials were eagerly ruminating over when they were actively and directly involved in the Project for a New American Century. But that particular pipedream is now a terrible, gruelling reality for the Iraqi people. Despite the glaring failures of US efforts in that country, there appears to be a serious inability to recognize the futility of attempting the same in Iran.

 

The Monterey Institute for International Studies already showed nearly two years ago in a detailed analysis that the likely consequences of a strike on Iran by the US, Israel, or both, would be a regional conflagaration that could quickly turn nuclear, and spiral out of control. US and Israeli planners are no doubt aware of what could happen. Such a catastrophe would have irreversible ramifications for the global political economy. Energy security would be in tatters, precipitating the activation of long-standing contingency plans to invade and occupy all the major resource-rich areas of the Middle East and elsewhere (see my book published by Clairview, Behind the War on Terror for references and discussion). Such action could itself trigger responses from other major powers with fundamental interests in maintaining their own access to regional energy supplies, such as Russia and particularly China, which has huge interests in Iran. Simultaneously, the dollar-economy would be seriously undermined, most likely facing imminent collapse in the context of such crises.

 

Which raises pertinent questions about why Britain, the US and Israel are contemplating such a scenario as a viable way of securing their interests.

 

A glimpse of an answer lies in the fact that the post-9/11 military geostrategy of the "War on Terror" does not spring from a position of power, but rather from entirely the opposite. The global system has been crumbling under the weight of its own unsustainability for many years now, and we are fast approaching the convergence of multiple crises that are already interacting fatally as I write. The peak of world oil production, of which the Bush administration is well aware, either has already just happened, or is very close to happening. It is a pivotal event that signals the end of the Oil Age, for all intents and purposes, with escalating demand placing increasing pressure on dwindling supplies. Half the world's oil reserves are, more or less, depleted, which means that it will be technologically, geophysically, increasingly difficult to extract conventional oil. I had a chat last week with some scientists from the Omega Institute in Brighton, directed by my colleague and friend Graham Ennis, who told me eloquently and powerfully what I already knew, that while a number of climate "tipping-points" may or may not have yet been passed, we have about 10-15 years before the "tipping-point" is breached certainly and irreversibly. Breaching that point means plunging head-first into full-scale "climate catastrophe". Amidst this looming Armageddon of Nature, the dollar-denominated economy itself has been teetering on the edge of spiralling collapse for the last seven years or more. This is not idle speculation. A financial analyst as senior as Paul Volcker, Alan Greenspan's immediate predecessor as chairman of the Federal Reserve, recently confessed "that he thought there was a 75% chance of a currency crisis in the United States within five years."

 

There appears to have been a cold calculation made at senior levels within the Anglo-American policymaking establishment: that the system is dying, but the last remaining viable means of sustaining it remains a fundamentally military solution designed to reconfigure and rehabilitate the system to continue to meet the requirements of the interlocking circuits of military-corporate power and profit.

 

The highly respected US whistleblower, former RAND strategic analyst Daniel Ellsberg, who was Special Assistant to Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam conflict and became famous after leaking the Pentagon Papers, has already warned of his fears that in the event of "another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country, detention camps for middle-easterners and their quote 'sympathizers', critics of the President's policy and essentially the wiping-out of the Bill of Rights."

 

So is that what all the "emergency preparedness" legislation, here in the UK as well as in the USA and in Europea, is all about? The US plans are bad enough, as Ellsberg notes, but the plans UK scene is hardly better, prompting The Guardian to describe the Civil Contingencies Bill (passed as an Act in 2004) as "the greatest threat to civil liberty that any parliament is ever likely to consider."

 

As global crises converge over the next few years, we the people are faced with an unprecedented opportunity to use the growing awareness of the inherent inhumanity and comprehensive destructiveness of the global imperial system to establish new, viable, sustainable and humane ways of living.

 

 

It was always going to happen.

PS - In regards to GazeboflossUK - lots of questions with the most secretive government in US history. I like to turn Pres. Bush's quote back onto his own little world, relative to surveilance of our citizens - "Hey, after all... Whaddaya got to hide hee, hee.." Comeon George, whaddaya got to hide, hee, hee!"

Can anyone say "NIXON" ten times? It's got us all scared - not the land of the free like it used to be!!

Trying to Turn the Ship Around in Time,

-Chuck

Hey Gazebofloss!!

I hear you loud and clear! I just hope we're over-extended enough, and the failures of the war in Iraq are enough to keep us out of any more global mizery. I've declared my own personal war on oil - I've been getting one of our local manufacturers to begin production of high efficiency wood gassification & gen set systems for home use - designed to efficiently turn wood chunks, waste paper, or any solid organic matter into fuel for direct home heat and electricity production. The maket can only grow rapidly as time passes! Renewables are the way to go, as oil, war, and climate issues must be addressed. Solar panels are nice, as are wind options, but our climate lacks both in the critical winter months, so we're faced with fewer options - it's either biofuels in winter, or bundle up! Superinsulation gets us 90% of the way there, as well as better transportation options, so I'm hopeful we can do it. Heck, we don't really have a choice!!

Keep up the good work, and Great Analysis!!

Sincerely,

-Chuck

 

PS - has there been any real political reform efforts in Great Brittian? Effective??

Hey Gazebofloss!!

I hear you loud and clear! I just hope we're over-extended enough, and the failures of the war in Iraq are enough to keep us out of any more global mizery. I've declared my own personal war on oil - I've been getting one of our local manufacturers to begin production of high efficiency wood gassification & gen set systems for home use - designed to efficiently turn wood chunks, waste paper, or any solid organic matter into fuel for direct home heat and electricity production. The maket can only grow rapidly as time passes! Renewables are the way to go, as oil, war, and climate issues must be addressed. Solar panels are nice, as are wind options, but our climate lacks both in the critical winter months, so we're faced with fewer options - it's either biofuels in winter, or bundle up! Superinsulation gets us 90% of the way there, as well as better transportation options, so I'm hopeful we can do it. Heck, we don't really have a choice!!

Keep up the good work, and Great Analysis!!

Sincerely,

-Chuck

 

PS - has there been any real political reform efforts in Great Brittian? Effective??

 

As soon as I become independent, I will as well. Oil is ruining this country almost as much as Bush's policies. I can't wait for the day when all cars are replaced with something cleaner and more efficient.

 

Gazebofloss, even though that's an Op-Ed article with an overwhelming liberal bias that I'm taking with a grain of salt, I am now scared shitless of war with Iran. We can't do it...I know we can't.

Gazebofloss, even though that's an Op-Ed article with an overwhelming liberal bias that I'm taking with a grain of salt, I am now scared shitless of war with Iran. We can't do it...I know we can't.

 

Hmmm...Yeah, I know it's Op-Ed.......but....I thought if there is any truth to these quotes then we will all have to find out the hard way, unfortunatley.

I have always thought that Iran will be "brought" into this one way or another.....it was just a matter of "how" I think. Scary.

 

Israeli Bombardment Of Lebanon Escalation For World War Three

Hyped incursions, kidnappings designed to trap Syria and Iran

 

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | July 24 2006

 

The Israeli bombardment of Lebanon is the next escalation of a conflict that is being orchestrated according to a set roadmap that leads directly to World War Three.

 

Israel, the United States and Great Britain have been caught red-handed on numerous occasions staging terror attacks and false flag provocations in the Middle East for over 50 years.

 

How can we any longer believe anything our governments tell us about their actions in the Middle East?

 

Immediately after Bush's ultimatum to Iran which was rebuffed, conventional and normal captures and military incursions on both sides, when measured against the bellwether of the usual temperature of chaos in the region, are suddenly hyped beyond all proportion by the world media.

 

Israel's bombardment of the length and breadth of Lebanon has been characterized by its targeting of innocent civilians - including two incidents in Marwaheen and Taire where civilians were ordered to leave an area whereupon their escape vehicles were deliberately pulverized by Israeli Hellfire missiles.

 

At their root these are the very characteristics of a terrorist state engaging in terrorist attacks upon innocent populations.

 

Meanwhile, Hezbollah's limited response has impacted mainly military targets - with many suggesting that the often recycled pictures of damage from Hezbollah rockets betrays the notion that thousands have been fired as the Israelis claim.

 

 

Some would go further and finger the Israelis for attacking their own interests to maintain a false scapegoat and justification for further evisceration in Lebanon. Israel's documented history of manufacturing phony Al-Qaeda groups to demonize the Palestinians is without question.

 

Israel's insistence that a ground war and an advance into northern Lebanon is not out of the question could bring the Syrians and their Iranian allies into the conflict which would in turn would present the saliva-drenched Neo-Cons with their long-awaited pretext to take Assad and Ahmadinejad out of the game.

 

This is nothing less than a cooked escalation for war.

 

As reported by New Yorker magazine, US troops and special operations forces have been active inside Iran for over a year waiting for the right opportunity to enact destabilization tactics once the green light is given.

 

This is simply another fuse that has been lit to ignite the order out of chaos agenda that has already turned Iraq into a hellhole only stable enough for one foundational precedent - a limitless occupation and an endless slush fund of no-bid contracts for US government affiliated corporations. In addition, tight control of oil flow and jacked-up prices to promote artificial scarcity worldwide continue to benefit blueprints laid out by oil companies many years before.

 

Whether it stops in Lebanon or rolls into Syria - this is the orchestration of World War 3, World War 4 to Neo-Cons - if only on the level of a trial balloon to judge how events will play out when a similar hand is dealt.

You shoud take info from Nick with a grain of salt, after all, to him Catholics are not Christians(I still can't belive how he could say something so stupid), maybe he could learn new words from other places than Foxnews.

 

Imo, Jews are not a race, because I was always thought that there are basicly 3 different races.Europeids, including western civilization, northern Africa, mid east, latin America, and Australia and New Zealand.

Mongoloids who are Mongols, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and some other.

Negroids who generally occupy Africa.Now I'm not totally sure about this, like where aboriginals and indians belong, I belive Mongoloids.

Well, this is all interesting stuff, and one of the reasons I'd like to study Anthropology.

 

stupid? when they go agaisnt core teaching of jesus, how can they be the same as him? i guess you can say they are christians, like i can say the terrorist muslims are muslims. but when it comes down to it, they dont follow the teaching of the quran, and the catholic church doesnt follow what jesus preached. but i guess its stupid to say people who dont follow what jesus wanted are not christians. :rolleyes:

 

ill use simple words for you....if the "muslim" terrorist do not follow islam then they are not truly muslims...still with me? so if catholics do not follow what jesus taught and in many key area's go agaisnt it, they are not truly christians.....lets hope we all learned something today! I hope you were able to follow, i made it as simple as possible. But if you want to get more complex, Catholicism is more like a pseudo-christianity. its similar but not quite the same.

 

 

i would advise you to learn before you speak. i have said it a million times, i dont watch fox news often. my main new sources are european. the only american news i watch alot of are the cbs and nbc nightly news and msnbc.....so please before you open your mouth, know what the fuck you are talking about. It's childish to do othewise.

:lol: I agree on Nick.. he's 'special' isn't he... lol

 

 

Sorry but jews are a race. people try to make them not so their dislike and hatred of them wont seem as bad....its a way of making it seem not as evil. like if i were to say black people werent a race and then when i was "racist" towards them i wouldnt actually be racist......its a common thing humans do, to shush that annoying conscience of theirs......truly sad, but truly human.

 

similar things were done with slaves, they werent viewed as truly human, so when people mistreated them and were racist people didnt feel as guilty about it. truly sad.

 

btw smart people are special. sorry you're not special, but im sure your parents think so...:)

ok let me ask this... (I am learning so much in here today!) -- a few pages back we had a discussion with Jewish being considered a race and not a religion.. I had said that it is indeed a religion and not literally a race... mrcool (Nick) said that it wasn't because most people think of it as a race....

 

so, now I pose the question to you... how to you view it, and in fact.. could you tell us what it is.. I still say its a religion..

 

*gets her notepad out to take more notes and ready to learn* :nice:

 

well, it's a religion like christianity is a religioun. It's only a race if u look back thousands of years and see that we all have the same origin. But the different ppl that are jewish will just make u see that actually Judaism is a religion. After all the jews that came to israel from all over the world came from very different places- countires in europe and countries in north africa. So you would think that racially they were different. Physically u can see a difference between ppl from the europian countires and the ones from north africa (i'm half half- my dad's parents came from Lybia and Iraq. My Mom's parents came from Yugoslavia, which is now Serbia).

I think that ever since the foundation of Israel ppl look at judaism as a nationality in the sense that there are sooo many different ppl that live in israel and are considered israeli, and one of the main things that makes us all the same is the fact that we're jewish. It's what unites us. So maybe that's why ppl sometimes look at judaism as a race. Israel was also founded as a "national- religious country".

I meant the sort of black spiral strap, that I've seen only in males(on tv of course, so I don't know i females wear it.)

But you see, if you don't profess Catholicism at all, or anymore, you've still part of the certain nation.

But what is a Jew that isn't a Jew? :)

 

a jew that isnt a jew, is simply a jew that doesnt see himself as jewish. That's individual. Technically, there are laws that define who is and sint jewish- it was something that has been a conflict during the years trying to define who is jewish. I learned about this in the 10th, and they decided that a jew is:

-someone born to a jewish mother (not father, unlike christianity. It's the mother because u can only know for sure that the mother is the real mother, unlike the father)

- someone who converted (following certain guidelines I'm guessing, that I'm not really familiar with. There are so many kinds of Judaism these days, that u could find ppl who would tell u very different ways of converting).

 

and about that strap, it is only for boys. It's called "Tfilin". I know men do this alot, ever since they're 13 and have a Bar Mitsva. But I dont know much about that. Maybe Matan knows more...i feel stupid. I dont know too much about my religion because i'm very non religious

a jew that isnt a jew, is simply a jew that doesnt see himself as jewish. That's individual. Technically, there are laws that define who is and sint jewish- it was something that has been a conflict during the years trying to define who is jewish. I learned about this in the 10th, and they decided that a jew is:

-someone born to a jewish mother (not father, unlike christianity. It's the mother because u can only know for sure that the mother is the real mother, unlike the father)

- someone who converted (following certain guidelines I'm guessing, that I'm not really familiar with. There are so many kinds of Judaism these days, that u could find ppl who would tell u very different ways of converting).

 

and about that strap, it is only for boys. It's called "Tfilin". I know men do this alot, ever since they're 13 and have a Bar Mitsva. But I dont know much about that. Maybe Matan knows more...i feel stupid. I dont know too much about my religion because i'm very non religious

 

neither am i religious. i have tefillin, but haven't worn them since barmitzvah (maybe once or twice). they contain special parts of bible that have deep spiritual meaning like the shema etc.

in regards to jews as a race... adam u are wrong. sorry dude. i studied races at school as part of holocaust studies last year at school (its compulsory) and jews are not a race. the whole jews as a race was from hitler.

in reagrds to those who say there has been no attacks on synagogues or the like in 20 years, open up your eyes a bit. http://www.ajn.com.au is the australian jewish news. at least once a week there is something signifigant that is antisemitic in the western world. i think a year or so agao a synagogue in perth was burnt and nazi graffiti is not uncommon.

in regards to those who say the holocaust is jewish propaganda, shame on you, i'm actually ashamed you are a homo sapien with views like that. it just disgusts me.

gareth, if you can criticise people for viewing only 'government proagated' forms of media they can do just the same to you. you believe alot in that axisoflogic.com stuff, which is fine, just not the be all and end all for news, i've found alot of the rumours on there are totally speculative (eg. friend of a friend of a high ranking soldier in us army told me...) no names- no CONCRETE proof.

Sorry but jews are a race. people try to make them not so their dislike and hatred of them wont seem as bad....its a way of making it seem not as evil. like if i were to say black people werent a race and then when i was "racist" towards them i wouldnt actually be racist......its a common thing humans do, to shush that annoying conscience of theirs......truly sad, but truly human.

 

similar things were done with slaves, they werent viewed as truly human, so when people mistreated them and were racist people didnt feel as guilty about it. truly sad.

 

btw smart people are special. sorry you're not special, but im sure your parents think so...:)

 

about your first sentence. I dont think u can see judaism as a race since it really is juat a religion. The difference between judaism and christianity, for example, is that there are so little jews that i think we feel united as if we were a race. And we were always treated like we were a race (in the word anitsemetic- "semi" is the race. However, the arabs are also included in this race, however, the word has come to relate to jews only).

what u wanted to point out is that u said "ppl say being jewish is not a race so it would seem less evil". But even if judaism really isnt a race, I dont think protesting hate toward a whole religion is any better. It's just as evil...