I have no comment except that joe satriani sounds like a whiny asshole who got annoyed because his song sounds a measly bit like coldplays but is not as popular. if he truly loves creating music because he loves it and not for the money then he should just let it go and go write songs that people will actually listen to. :P

Hey everyone, thanks for the help, this video got 1200+ views in the first 24 hours. I've gotten over 10 different personal messages in youtube from those who have found other songs, earlier than satriani's, with similar progressions & melody line.

 

AND YOU CANNOT BELIEVE THE SWEET BLISS INVOLVED IN ZAPPING A TARD HATERS COMMENTS BY SIMPLY PRESSING "REMOVE" FROM MY YOUTUBE PAGE. zwop! gone.

 

I don't mind those who don't like the band, I get that. But they talk as though the band just fired Johnny, and brought in Sarah Palin as the replacement. Blind rage, and for what? How did simple, mellow tunes instill such a visceral reaction.

 

LET THEM SAY WHAT THEY WANT!

 

IN THE LATE NIGHT HOURS

WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING

THEY ARE CROUCHED OVER THEIR GIRLFRIENDS IPOD AT 2AM

WITH EARBUDS IN THE EAR AND A GUILTY SMILE ON THEIR SILLY FACES!:cool:

Let me start off by saying this. I am a fan of a very broad range of music. One minute I can be listening to Slayer, the next minute enjoying a bit of ABBA and I am a fan of both Joe and Coldplay so have no bias whatsoever when it comes to this subject.

 

Here’s my problem… reading this board makes me sick… and I mean sick to the stomach that people can be so besotted by a band that they can hit out at a legendary artist such as Joe Satriani in the most rude, ignorant and ill-informed manner. Some of you could do to broaden you musical horizons.

 

I highly doubt that somebody of Joe’s stature can be labeled as a ‘gold digger’ and some of the responses to his quotes on this board are just incredible. A great portion of his work is not just produced to fill an album, some of his compositions have taken many years to get to a final product and some of which seem to become a labor of love, especially when they are written for his wife, Rubina. What he said was not embellishment, it was his immediate emotion to the situation at the time. I’d much rather have that than a ‘polite’ response from a legal team.

 

I have owned both albums since their release and I have to say that I had never quite made the connection between the two tracks until this whole saga erupted. When you sit down and listen to the two tracks back to back then you can really get to understand the similarities between the two, It’s quite spooky really.

 

Now, in Coldplay’s defense, I honestly can’t see them intentionally ripping the tune off but it is quite possible that somewhere down the line there was some kind of overlap subconsciously or there could also be the possibility that it really is just a coincidence. Who knows? I don’t think anybody will truly know, but I can still enjoy both tunes as separate pieces of music and without prejudice. Either way… this will blow over just like every other hiccup and both parties will move on.

 

I sincerely urge those of you that have jumped on the ‘Hate Joe Satriani’ bandwagon to spend a couple of hours out on youtube watching some of his interviews and sampling some of his work. You might get a better understanding of who this guy is. For those that refuse and wish to continue acting like the kid that dropped the ice cream… Relax, it’s not the end of the world.

Let me start off by saying this. I am a fan of a very broad range of music. One minute I can be listening to Slayer, the next minute enjoying a bit of ABBA and I am a fan of both Joe and Coldplay so have no bias whatsoever when it comes to this subject.

 

Here’s my problem… reading this board makes me sick… and I mean sick to the stomach that people can be so besotted by a band that they can hit out at a legendary artist such as Joe Satriani in the most rude, ignorant and ill-informed manner. Some of you could do to broaden you musical horizons.

 

I highly doubt that somebody of Joe’s stature can be labeled as a ‘gold digger’ and some of the responses to his quotes on this board are just incredible. A great portion of his work is not just produced to fill an album, some of his compositions have taken many years to get to a final product and some of which seem to become a labor of love, especially when they are written for his wife, Rubina. What he said was not embellishment, it was his immediate emotion to the situation at the time. I’d much rather have that than a ‘polite’ response from a legal team.

 

I have owned both albums since their release and I have to say that I had never quite made the connection between the two tracks until this whole saga erupted. When you sit down and listen to the two tracks back to back then you can really get to understand the similarities between the two, It’s quite spooky really.

 

Now, in Coldplay’s defense, I honestly can’t see them intentionally ripping the tune off but it is quite possible that somewhere down the line there was some kind of overlap subconsciously or there could also be the possibility that it really is just a coincidence. Who knows? I don’t think anybody will truly know, but I can still enjoy both tunes as separate pieces of music and without prejudice. Either way… this will blow over just like every other hiccup and both parties will move on.

 

I sincerely urge those of you that have jumped on the ‘Hate Joe Satriani’ bandwagon to spend a couple of hours out on youtube watching some of his interviews and sampling some of his work. You might get a better understanding of who this guy is. For those that refuse and wish to continue acting like the kid that dropped the ice cream… Relax, it’s not the end of the world.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I have come to find out that it will mostly fall on deaf ears. I do, however, appreciate your thoughts. I disagree that this thing will blow over. Maybe if a settlement is reached, but not if this goes to court. We just differ in our opinions there.

 

I don't think Joe is in this for money at all. I question his decision to file a lawsuit because it may do more harm than good. I also question his timing because it was right after Coldplay's grammy nominations were announced. But I, like you, will continue to listen.

I don't think Joe is in this for money at all. I question his decision to file a lawsuit because it may do more harm than good. I also question his timing because it was right after Coldplay's grammy nominations were announced. But I, like you, will continue to listen.

 

 

I also wish he hadn't brought up the suit to be honest and was really shocked that he'd actually do it. That only says to me that he must feel extremely strongly about the situation or was possibly riled up by the response from the Coldplay camp. It’s hard to say but Joe’s certainly not one for controversy.

I also wish he hadn't brought up the suit to be honest and was really shocked that he'd actually do it. That only says to me that he must feel extremely strongly about the situation or was possibly riled up by the response from the Coldplay camp. It’s hard to say but Joe’s certainly not one for controversy.

 

Agreed. A simple cost benefit analysis leads me to that conclusion:

 

For Satriani, if:

 

costs>benefits ------> you don't file the lawsuit

costs<benefits ------> you file the lawsuit

 

where,

 

costs are fixed: public scrutiny, family drug through the mud, hatred directed at him, time invested.

 

benefits are not fixed

 

1. money (of which 1/3 will go to legal fees and 1/2 to taxes): this for a man who is already wealthy.

 

2. protecting artistic integrity.

 

If you plug the benefits of #1 into the CBA equation, to me it does not make sense to file. If you plug #2 in, I understand.

EMI HAS PULLED THE VIDEO

 

:cry:

 

EMI HAS PULLED THE VIDEO FROM YOUTUBE.

 

sorry, all...

 

The only question is, did -

 

1. emi's minions ask for it to be pulled.

2. coldplay's minions ask for it to be pulled.(emi)

3. satriani's minions ask for it to be pulled.(yes, emi as well)

yikes..... :\

satriani issue

 

^ yikes indeed!

I just went to watch your vid again and noticed it was removed! :(

It's sad because that was the only video defending Coldplay....

 

Although EMI took your video off, they also removed the other video.. the one that probably instigated this whole issue! WOOT! :smug:

Coldplagiarism

 

 

OK, now that I've got your attention, I can get on to my point.

 

First off, in the spirit of full disclosure, this is where I'm coming from. I am not a Coldplay fan, though I have nothing against them. They seem to have some decent catchy pop music that appeals to a lot people and that's cool. I am a casual Joe Satriani fan and have seen him live several times over many years, but his music is not my favorite by a long shot. More importantly, I am a musician with graduate degrees in composition so I have a pretty good handle on how music works and the writing process etc. I've been following this Satriani vs. Coldplay thing and read a lot of varying opinions by people on the internet and thus I have some observations. Please understand, that my main intent is not to trash Coldplay, but rather explain a lot of misinformation out there and hopefully get some of the emotions on both sides into check. I've read several comments which say something to the effect of whoever you are a fan of is how you view the situation. My observations by and large corroborate that. However, what we should be after here is the truth and a rational reaction to the situation. One more thing, the Coldplagiarism imagery is just for fun and intended to be funny. It's a bit of a cheap shot, but it's a good one. So on to the more serious matter.

 

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Coldplay's intent here and whether they knowingly plagiarized Joe Satriani. From a musical perspective, there is no question that the passages in question are almost identical. I know there are some of you who rationalize this or genuinely don't understand why they are similar because your casual experience with music is limited. I'll explain why they are similar later. In any case, I can guarantee you that there is no experienced musician or music scholar who does not understand that we are dealing with almost the same musical content. So really, this is a given. What I see is a lot of Coldplay defenders say is that they didn't copy Satriani for various reasons. They didn't need to. They don't even know who Satriani is, etc. It's only a small section of the song (so what I say to that!!). That really doesn't matter, unless the lawsuit gets really ugly and there is a punitive portion that comes into play. What matters is that the music is the same and Satirani is the intellectual property owner. If you walk into a store and accidentally knock over something fragile and it breaks, doesn't the store owner still hold you liable for the damage even if you did not intend to do it? This is just common sense. So no matter why this is the case, Coldplay has a problem here.

 

The bottom line as to whether the similarities were intentional or not is something that probably only the band really knows. It will be hard to prove it one way or the other. I will say that these sections of music are so similar that it is more likely than not that Coldplay was influenced by it in some fashion, rather than it coming completely from them. However, it is not impossible and I could give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Speaking strictly on a musical level, this case of copyright infringement is so much more significant than most other claims. Most of the non-musicians are using whatever ability they have to develop their opinions, but in many cases, these are not informed ones. For example. I could play a very nice soothing song for my mother and then play the same melody on a distorted electric guitar and to her it's like a totally different song. She doesn't even recognize it as being identical. So that's one extreme and explains why some out there genuinely don't understand what is going on here.

 

There are several factors in comparing these two sections of music. What's happening harmonically and melodically? The chord progression, that is the harmony, is not something that is subject to copyright typically, certainly not in simple pop songs for sure. That's why the similar Tom Petty/Red Hot Chili Peppers "controversy" was different than the current situation. The Tom Petty song "Mary Jane’s Last Dance" had a similar chord progression to the Red Hot Chili Peppers' Dani California, though the third chord is Major in Petty's and it is minor in the Chili Peppers. The melody on top of that is different. The same can be said about a lot of songs. The Police song "So Lonely" & Green Day's "When I Come Around" share the same chord progression too, but they are different songs otherwise. So really the melody is what is more important when it comes to copyright infringement. Now let's look at what is going on in the Coldplay/Joe Satriani example.

 

Harmony - First of all, the songs are different keys, which doesn't mean anything, though some out there are misinformed and seem to think so. If key mattered, I could take any song out there, transpose it to a new key and call it my own, while being safe from a copyright infringement suit. It's just nonsense. Key is irrelevant. What we are after here is the chord pattern relationships that apply universally in any key. Music theorists use Roman numerals to describe these relationships. With regards to the section of music in question, these are the chord progressions.

 

Joe Satriani

 

iv - VII - III - i

 

Coldplay

 

VI - VII - III - i

 

Joe Satriani actually uses a slightly fancier chord with an added note, but I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible so I did not add the extra nuances above. So the main difference here seems to be the first chord. Now, I'm going to explain why they are very similar. The opening iv chord in the Satriani is actually a seventh chord which means there is an added note that gives the sound more color if you will. Using the key of the Satriani (b minor), let's look at how that chord is spelled - E-G-B-D. The D note is the added seventh. Now using the same key (not the original Coldplay key), how about the Coldplay VI chord - G-B-D. Notice any similarities? All this means is that the bass note of the chord is different, but they end up having a similar sound because the upper part of the chord is the same.

 

Again, the chord progression is not what gets Coldplay into trouble here, it's largely the melody. The above analysis is there for the purpose of explaining the facts behind the two chord progressions. There's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of people don't know what they are talking about. I hope this helps explain it, but it's hard to talk theory to people who don't understand music.

 

Melody - Since it's not the chord progression that offends the law and it's 99% identical, it's fair to say that they are really the same chord progression. Had the melody been different over it, there would be no case here. The combination of a virtually identical melodic line (save a couple dynamic flourishes) with the same chord progression gives Satriani the grounds to seek recourse here. As an added bonus, the songs have an almost identical rhythm and tempo, which is not a copyrightable element, but it adds another dimension of similarity to further bolster his claims.

 

There is absolutely no doubt that Coldplay employed Satriani's intellectual property. This can be proven as a matter of fact. What can't be proven is under what circumstances. Did they know or was it an accident, but again it doesn't matter. Unless you get people as dumb as the original OJ jury that aren't interested in real facts, this is an easy win for Satriani.

 

Supposedly Satriani came to the band to try to settle the matter and Coldplay blew him off. I don't think it is fair to blame Satriani for being a jerk about this. He appears to have viewed a lawsuit as a last resort. From what I know of Satriani, he appears to be a decent and reasonable guy. I can't imagine that he would not have been willing to work out a compromise that avoided court. So I'm really at a loss as to why Coldplay has handled this so poorly. If in fact Satriani did come to them and they didn't want to deal with it, they were fools given the facts. What I would have done if I were them would be just release a statement saying that this was an accident, but considering the almost identical use of music, Satriani will be added as a co-writer and thus share in the royalties. Everyone would come out of this fine and Coldplay would not look like arrogant pop stars. I'd be extremely surprised if Satriani wouldn't have been cool with that. Many of you may not feel this way, but this incident has hurt Coldplay's reputation because the facts are so damning. I can understand that if this was purely coincidental, they might be defensive about the situation, but I hope for their sake that they put their egos aside and do what is best for them. They risk not only a legal loss, but a public relations one too. I don't have an axe to grind with them and my only reaction to Coldplay in the past has been, oh yeah, I've heard that song, it's a good pop song, whenever I hear their music. However now, I'm not sure whether or not they are just arrogant or quite frankly not musically competent enough to understand that Satirani's intellectual property is in their song. The fact that Satriani's work appears in Coldplay's music does not necessarily make Coldplay lame, but the way they handle it does. That is something they can control.

 

One more thought. This case goes well beyond musical similarities of many other accusations I've seen. I've noticed people trying to use some obscure music by other artists that shows they had something similar even before Satriani or Coldplay. All I can say, is that I have yet to see anything that is as similar and so clear cut as the Coldplay/Joe Satriani comparison. Those other examples have very different harmonic content and the melodies are not similar enough either. If Coldplay had a very close melody line with a different chord progression, this would not be such a slam dunk, but remember both components in this case are almost identical.

 

I don't know if this has made anybody look at the situation differently than before, but all I can say is that I have yet to see a methodic rational fact based argument that can demonstrate that the harmonic and melodic content in question in the Coldplay song is different from Satriani's. Non musicians without any training, subjectively saying it doesn't sound similar enough to me doesn't cut it.

 

 

 

BTW - If you like the image at the top of this post, you can get it on the following items:

 

Coldplagiarism - Viva La Fraude T-Shirt

 

Coldplagiarism - Viva La Fraude Bumper Sticker

 

Coldplagiarism - Viva La Fraude Poster

:)

oh snap! This one is going to get ugly.

"I am not a Coldplay fan. I am a casual Joe Satriani fan."

 

:uhoh: Well then obviously you are going to have different opinons than us.

ugh I don't know .. I'm just so sick of talking about this... we have like 4 threads about this case and it's getting to be a bit much. :confused:

Am going to merge this into an existing thread.

Thanks for the essay, dude. :)

 

If it wasn't a 5 page 2000 word essay, I might actually have read it too. But seriously- most of my college essays weren't that long. :stunned:

BTW - If you like the image at the top of this post, you can get it on the following items:

 

Coldplagiarism - Viva La Fraude T-Shirt

 

Coldplagiarism - Viva La Fraude Bumper Sticker

 

Coldplagiarism - Viva La Fraude Poster

 

Oh of course I like the image! I'll definitely give you my money... See I'm not really a Coldplay fan, I just come here for the laughs... :rolleyes:

 

Not bothering to respond to the rest of your post because I can't be bothered. :dozey:

I hope u die.......Oh and Happy Holidays

Oh of course I like the image! I'll definitely give you my money... See I'm not really a Coldplay fan, I just come here for the laughs... :rolleyes:

 

Not bothering to respond to the rest of your post because I can't be bothered. :dozey:

 

yeah how bout that shit? why the f**k would I give anyone money who isn't a coldplay fan WTF?

Oh puhlease! I don't mind fans of Joe posting but you're a troll. No matter what, you can't hide your true colors. By having a name as "Coldplagiarism" and all those fraud things in your post (btw...fraud is spelled without the e) tells everyone why your here and what your purpose is on this board. It's not to discuss the subject, which we don't need another thread for, but to just simpy start trouble because you hate the band.

 

BTW...I love how all these defenders of Joe say they are music experts, have degrees in music, play an instrument and so forth. It's like they want people to think they are "experts" when it comes to music. Geez!!

 

BTW...I love how all these defenders of Joe say they are music experts, have degrees in music, play an instrument and so forth. It's like they want people to think they are "experts" when it comes to music. Geez!!

 

:laugh3: .....TRUE.

I think we need to contact the estate of Eugene Delacroix because that idiot that copied/plagiarize his artwork without getting permission from the artist's estate. I hope they sue his *** off.

But tracylynn, this guy is obviously THE definitive source on this issue...

 

:laugh3:

 

Sorry, couldn't say that with a straight face ;)

If he's really a troll, then don't feed him. Getting upset is just giving trolls what they want so that they can grow.

tba he entitled to his or her opinion just like we have given our opinion

but ur say things without any proof for example Supposedly Satriani came to the band to try to settle the matter and Coldplay blew him off. and also how do u know its a last resort? these things that ur stating are the first i have heard of it..and also how have coldplay handled it poorly...they gave a good statement on there website and made no silly comment about being hurt or having had a dagger through there hearts...i dunno about any one else but i think thats poor.

If he's really a troll, then don't feed him. Getting upset is just giving trolls what they want so that they can grow.

 

Oh, I am not gonna feed him. I just had to say that because this thing is getting ridiculous with all the "I know music" comments from Joe's fan here and every other site. Trolls are like Chia pets...you give them water and they'll grow and grow while still looking ugly.