Search the forum, i posted PAGES of hard science before. People will choose to believe fairy tales and ignore science. On top of that, the theories use by evolutionist never stand up to test.

 

Anytime someone blabs about evolution being most plausible, just say "Haldane's Dilemma" and the debate is over.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane%27s_dilemma

Thanks for the link.

i pity your ignorance saffire.

now if i'm correct what you positing is a single dilemma. yes, because that will disprove watson and crick, darwin, dawkins et al. right.

 

but then again, you do live in a country where church and state are so closely intertwined it breaches the constitution (don't believe me? read letters to a christian nation, or your own consititutuion when it talks about the 'pursuit of happiness')

 

you've obviously been brought up fairly religiously as was I. I don't preach to convert you to atheism, just for you to see the truth.

Please don't assume things about me - I'm a deist, not a classical Christian, although I think the New Testament gives some particularly insightful ideas about what the natural God is actually like.

 

The dilemma proves that neo-darwinists are making massive assumptions about the mutation/uptake rate among populations of higher vertibrates. This is a scientific question, not a religious one. I'm not trying to prove God, I'm just pointing out that there are many questions that haven't been answered. Intelligent design isn't Creationism, and it isn't fringe science.

Since were after the truth here, it's likely the DNA double helix structure was actually discovered by Rosalyn, not by Francis Crick and James Watson. She had her ideas stolen by them, and the credit stolen as well, basically. Looking back at Darwin's work and discoveries, what we see is a time capsule of the best explanation science could offer at that time. I did take a look at Haldane's Dilemma, and what it seems to offer is a mathematical approach to showing that too narrow a selection process can lead to a lack of genetic diversity, and then an evolutionary dead-end, if the species confronts new challenges to it's fitness in a given environment. And this has certainly happened! Hence, extinctions outside of the usual cataclysmic events - not enough diversity to allow for traits when conditions change, and random mutation in complex multi-cellular organisms take a lot of individuals and time to yield viable offspring, let alone advantageous results when the selection pressure changes.

So, a less narrow process of selection is often in play, as well as other components which we have begun to realize. There's more to see in every kernel, each time we look! Anyhow, in human relations there are processes afoot, but requiring more shared values and common efforts, as well as those of individuals, that lead us ahead as we progress in our understanding of the Universe. If that force be from God, or the natural process of the Universe, or one in the same, I'm content with the progress we're making, and the joy of discovery.

Incidentally, to question our assumptions is good, as long as the questioning looks at the picture honestly to find the true errors, and is not just seeking a quick anecdote to discredit the basic logic behind the science. Much as Gregor Mendel's work was flawed because it was too simplistic, he had nonetheless discovered a basic scientific concept that generally hold true - akin to finding the mainspring in a clock, but not realizing what all else occurs to drive the hands and keep perfect time.

Thus, hidden in the clockwork of the DNA, are gears waiting to turn, structure that affects outcome, and a multitude of features we had not previously realized were of any consequence. This is not to say that chance mutation does not play a crucial role in evolution; but it is not the only factor at work in providing solutions to survival when selection pressures change on an organism. When we think of higher vertebrates, we're actually looking at a complex colony of cells, interacting for the common survival and success of the colony, and containing bits of DNA tucked away in structures within each cell (mitochondrial DNA, Cytoplasmic DNA) from some ancient process that allowed one microbe to inhabit the other successfully. Yet developmental structures often suggest an evolutionary pathway, as we see stages of development where structures appear and disappear, such as gill slits, etc. in higher vertebrates.

Anyhow, I'm always fascinated by fungi, because they still have the ability to exist as either single-celled bacteria, or as colonies (multi-cellular) organisms, and produce fruiting bodies called mushrooms! (morels are quite tasty with eggs, diced onion greens, chicken, and a dash of salt in the skillet).:)

PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE

 

When will you see the light and accept that Anakin is the Chosen One?

 

And let's not forget midi-chlorians (dear Lord)

 

 

 

P.S. Let's leave the philosophical/theological/scientific debates up to all the excellent theistic/atheistic scientists and scholars who're out there seeking the truth. And not the ones trying to find out how many fruit pastelles it takes to choke a sparrow. End. Of. Story.

:laugh3:Hey, shouldn't the job of God be left to Indiana Jones?? Anyhow, to get to heaven when you die is really quite simple. Just turn left at Albuquerque, and..:P

:laugh3:Hey, shouldn't the job of God be left to Indiana Jones?? Anyhow, to get to heaven when you die is really quite simple. Just turn left at Albuquerque, and..:P

 

Why thanks you. :)

 

And I always figured that to fast track your way to heaven was to drive through Newark at night with the car doors unlocked. I believe Death has many friends there. lol

Quote: Originally Posted by

RICK8;2259420

Wow I aint even going to read this pile of shite!

TOTALLY AGREE! i'm athiest... so i'd appreciate if people wouldn't post stuff like this.

But still we dream, and it's amazing all the combined work and ingenuity has created what we have today.. It's really quite extraordinary that this all exists, and humanity is capable of so much. I had been an atheist for a short while, and then I began to consider just how amazing it all is, and our ability to understand so much. Maybe we shouldn't be asking how to get to heaven when we die, for that's outlandishly ridiculous to me - but rather, how do we create greater harmony on earth? Perhaps the best we can do is couched in the law of averages, but it sure beats returning to the stone ages!

Anyhow, then there are the fundies..

Probably the best way to get to heaven is nick the seat of the person in front of you. If it works on the bus, why not on The Heaven Express?

 

:P

Interesting thread. I'll read it when I've got the time and might spawn an opinion of my own about this.

Interesting thread. I'll read it when I've got the time and might spawn an opinion of my own about this.

 

Please don't :P#

 

EDIT:

There's not gonna be any pics of chicks in bikinis so you're out of luck Stefan!!

 

EDIT 2:

I meant we're out of luck, not just you!

Probably the best way to get to heaven is nick the seat of the person in front of you. If it works on the bus, why not on The Heaven Express?

 

:P

If we take the Fundi's seriously, that bus would have only room enough for 144,000 (the 12 tribes, 12,000 from each, will get to the "kingdom come" acc. to the Bible). Now, let's see.. there's some odd 6 billion people on earth today, and if you combine that will all those who have perished before us, and all who will perish afterwards, that gives us about equal the odds of being struck by lightning while on a hiking expedition in the desert. I think I'll stick to the real world, but the bus idea seems to be some people's idea of how to get there..:laugh3: Max. capacity 66 persons. Leave your change with the driver!:P

If we take the Fundi's seriously, that bus would have only room enough for 144,000 (the 12 tribes, 12,000 from each, will get to the "kingdom come" acc. to the Bible). Now, let's see.. there's some odd 6 billion people on earth today, and if you combine that will all those who have perished before us, and all who will perish afterwards, that gives us about equal the odds of being struck by lightning while on a hiking expedition in the desert. I think I'll stick to the real world, but the bus idea seems to be some people's idea of how to get there..:laugh3: Max. capacity 66 persons. Leave your change with the driver!:P

 

The Fundis, eh?

 

Is that what you're calling people from Rhode Island these days? :P

 

And seriously, 144,000 people is nothing man, you should see a single Dublin bus at rush hour - at least twice as many people. And that's just on the bus drivers lap. *Shudder* Those were the days...

Random god-like discussions..

 

The Fundis, eh?

 

Is that what you're calling people from Rhode Island these days? :P

Providence Plantations maybe, but not the Rhode's!:shocked2::laugh3: (Fundi = fundamentalists; except they take all the "fun" out of thinking clearly..)

 

And seriously, 144,000 people is nothing man, you should see a single Dublin bus at rush hour - at least twice as many people. And that's just on the bus drivers lap. *Shudder* Those were the days...

Hmmm...:stunned: I suppose that makes the fare cheaper??:laugh3:

 

You better be good, you better watch out! You better not scream, you better not shout! Jesus's Bus is coming, to town..:P He knows when you've been naughty, he knows when you been nice.. He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake!

 

Okay, let me make my point.

 

THERE IS NO HEAVEN.

THERE IS NO GOD.

 

If you DO believe in things like god or heaven or hell than you have a big problem.

Because, alot of people that do have does believe such things says when they did something bad.. like rob a bank, or kill domeone in a car exendent, they say: Why did god left me? Or Please why did you do that god? Or something like those things..

They can't rule over theirselfs.. they need someone to rule over them so they let god do it.

 

BUT, as far as I know, those people robbed the bank or made the exedent. Not someone else.. so they can pray what they want. or think about what god did as long as they want.. but it DOES NOT help!

It is all between your ears.

 

And some facts:

 

There are more people/animals killed in the Bible than in World War Two!

All gods of other religians are identical to eachother, they are all the same god.

The bible is just an book about the nature, how the sun works and the moon.

And stars.

 

If you don't believe me.

Go see the : http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Okay, let me make my point.

 

THERE IS NO HEAVEN.

THERE IS NO GOD.

 

If you DO believe in things like god or heaven or hell than you have a big problem.

Because, alot of people that do have does believe such things says when they did something bad.. like rob a bank, or kill domeone in a car exendent, they say: Why did god left me? Or Please why did you do that god? Or something like those things..

They can't rule over theirselfs.. they need someone to rule over them so they let god do it.

 

BUT, as far as I know, those people robbed the bank or made the exedent. Not someone else.. so they can pray what they want. or think about what god did as long as they want.. but it DOES NOT help!

It is all between your ears.

 

And some facts:

 

There are more people/animals killed in the Bible than in World War Two!

All gods of other religians are identical to eachother, they are all the same god.

The bible is just an book about the nature, how the sun works and the moon.

And stars.

 

If you don't believe me.

Go see the : http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

 

you need to watch yourself. just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean that others don't either. people take offense to what you say so, keep it to yourself. I don't like it when people press their religion on me, and I don't like it when people of my religion press it on other people because it's not right. telling people they\ have a problem for what they worship is ignorant and selfish.

people are weird when it comes to religion sheesh

 

i wasn't raised on religion at all, and even in high school i knew nothing about it. once i learned all i could, i still have no religion. i call myself a nothing really :P

 

i think it is a great thing to have faith though. keeps you going in this world.

 

but anyways i have to stick to this thread. i actually remember when i stayed with my cousin, she said that every night before bed, and i remember just trying to remember it, mumbling it, but not actually saying it.

Well, since this thread is "how to get to heaven when you die", and I just think we're all in a state of flux - a continuous loop or spiral.. death is the loss of consciousness, but then that all gets picked up and tossed along by someone else.. and the decisions we make affect the next cycle of the wheel of life. So, to me, we're already here! Isn't heaven nice!! :angel: (on the good days, that is..;)) Life's whatcha make of it, and better choices makes things better for everyone, which all comes back in time..

Anyhow, if it helps people to empathize, and by being kind, compassionate, helpful, generous, etc. with the idea in mind that that leads to heaven, well, I'll fine with that. After all, it does make this journey though life sweeter, and makes it better for the next generation as well.

Basically, it all boils down to either Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny. And, maybe a little revolution now and then helps clear the air and get things back on an even keel, so-to-speak...:bandana:

 

Thanks Hotplay007 and Chuck - you speaketh the truth.

 

This thread is.....................enlightening? Fun?

 

No, heavenly

 

:D

Hey Thank you too, Jamie!;) (and Wallace and Grommit too! - makes the lumps in life easier to take..):P

Yes. Yes it does Chuck!

you get to heaven by eating a whole turkey! like a WHOLE! turkey...in one sitting! :o

 

p.s. i am obv. joking for people who think i am a turkey madman

^ james, nothing you say surprises me anymore :P