I have a problem (and answers to questions about having a neutral gender)

[Prospector]

...So you don't believe in gender roles, yet you dress neutrally in order to make a point to society that you don't fit in a gender because you don't want them to make the mistake that you're a girl because, despite the fact that gender roles don't matter to you, you care about what other people think about it, particularly these "close-minded people" that you refer to in your post. Right. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

:nod: Everything about this post!

 

Honestly I just think all of this is a big bullshit, damn you are 14! OK, you don't feel like a girl, but is it that offensive to call you "she" or "her"? I'm OK with you been asexual, I get it, but saying you don't want to be recognized of being of a particular gender is beynd me, if you don't care about genders then it shouldn't matter if people think you are a guy or a girl. Sorry if this turns out to be a bit offensive but this thread doesn't make any sense for me and I think you should just relax, take it easy and use whatever clothes you want and be whatever you want to be. Just don't try to make a point to society, just make your point by beign yourself and that's it! You make things too complicate and specific, it's like you are trying to describe some sort of rare disease, but no!!! So just be yourself and stop with those classifications that don't really matter for you, me or anyone else!

[Cyan Kat]

It sounds to me that this is more now about what clothes you wear, which i can relate to myself not being a girly girl and all and I find some men androgynous men attractive. However I don't feel the need to label myself, everyone's perception is different on gender/clothing and it tends to be that people just make generalizations and assume you are a lesbian so I just let them think whatever. I kinda think you are over-complicating this thing a little, if you just wear what you are comfortable in then people shouldn't really be bothered that you are 'neutral' it is just who you are.

[MaxRide]

I just know I'd feel a lot more comfortable with myself the more androgynous I appeared, so the common concept of what characteristics constitute certain genders obviously plays a significant role considering I have an idea of what that is. The basis of it isn't really manufactured ideas though, but they attach themselves to the whole underlying thing as a certain means of okay I can't really explain this nevermind

Crestammi, you said a few of the things that I was trying to say :cheesy:

 

 

:nod: Everything about this post!

 

Honestly I just think all of this is a big bullshit, damn you are 14! OK, you don't feel like a girl, but is it that offensive to call you "she" or "her"? I'm OK with you been asexual, I get it, but saying you don't want to be recognized of being of a particular gender is beyond me, if you don't care about genders then it shouldn't matter if people think you are a guy or a girl. Sorry if this turns out to be a bit offensive but this thread doesn't make any sense for me and I think you should just relax, take it easy and use whatever clothes you want and be whatever you want to be. Just don't try to make a point to society, just make your point by beign yourself and that's it! You make things too complicate and specific, it's like you are trying to describe some sort of rare disease, but no!!! So just be yourself and stop with those classifications that don't really matter for you, me or anyone else!

*prepare for a giant wall of text*

 

Honestly I just think all of this is a big bullshit, damn you are 14!

Okay, to begin with, my age has nothing to do with my gender identity. Heck, there are kids that already know that they're transgendered [granted, from what I've seen, it's mostly been female to male, but the idea still holds] when they're five years old. If they can know, then why can't I?

 

OK, you don't feel like a girl, but is it that offensive to call you "she" or "her"?

As for the "she"/"her" pronoun usage, when people I don't know well/at all use it to describe me, I'm not generally upset most of the time, simply because I'm quite aware of the fact that nearly every single person has absolutely no idea that there are genders that are not male or female (not to mention that people assume your gender based on your body structure ._.). However, at home, where I've specifically told my parents and close friends to address me a certain way? Now that is what bothers me. They [my parents, my half brothers, and my three friends] are quite aware of my entire gender situation. All of them are used to calling me "she," and they do mess up sometimes, but they really are trying to use the right pronouns/gender neutral terminology. (well, my dad isn't even making an effort to do anything, which is really starting to bother me)

 

'm OK with you been asexual, I get it, but saying you don't want to be recognized of being of a particular gender is beyond me, if you don't care about genders then it shouldn't matter if people think you are a guy or a girl.

 

I care about genders in the fact that people should be allowed to identify however they want to. If random people on the street think I'm a girl (or a guy), so be it - I'm not going to be mad at someone just because they aren't aware of the complexity of gender. However, the fact that other people are basically identifying my gender for me - and for thousands of other people who don't fit in the gender binary - is immensely irritating.

 

Sorry if this turns out to be a bit offensive but this thread doesn't make any sense for me and I think you should just relax, take it easy and use whatever clothes you want and be whatever you want to be.

 

Clothes have nothing to do with gender identity. *points to my answer to Kat's post*

 

Just don't try to make a point to society, just make your point by beign yourself and that's it!

 

...that's exactly what I'm doing. :| For the most part, I dress the way I do because it's what I'm [physically] comfortable wearing.

 

You make things too complicate and specific, it's like you are trying to describe some sort of rare disease, but no!!! So just be yourself and stop with those classifications that don't really matter for you, me or anyone else!

 

PEOPLE ARE COMPLICATED AND SPECIFIC. I'm sorry, I felt the need to yell this in order to make a point. (Also, I'm just saying, describing a gender identification as a disease is, frankly, extraordinarily rude - gender is not a disease, it is part of what makes you who you are.) The classifications only matter because they matter to me - they are part of my personal identity. If I told you that you couldn't classify yourself as a Coldplay/*insert other band here* fan, no matter what, how would you feel about that? (I have no idea what your gender/sexual identity is, so I 'm just using this as an absolutely terrible example of what it's like to be specifically prevented from using the classifications that I want to).

 

EDIT: but if gender didn't matter so much to everyone, then maybe I wouldn't have the problem of trying to explain it to everyone

 

/wall of text mostly over

 

It sounds to me that this is more now about what clothes you wear, which i can relate to myself not being a girly girl and all and I find some men androgynous men attractive. However I don't feel the need to label myself, everyone's perception is different on gender/clothing and it tends to be that people just make generalizations and assume you are a lesbian so I just let them think whatever. I kinda think you are over-complicating this thing a little, if you just wear what you are comfortable in then people shouldn't really be bothered that you are 'neutral' it is just who you are.

The thing is, it's not really about the clothes I wear - it's about how I feel internally. I've never really "felt" like I was a girl/woman, but I definitely didn't "feel" like a boy/man either (and don't ask me how I can possibly feel that I'm not a gender because I have absolutely no idea either, I just do). I just didn't have a word for that idea for a really long time.

 

[Heck, if "female" clothes were actually physically comfortable for me to wear, then I probably would wear them more often - the same applies for "masculine" clothes]

[MaxRide]

edit

[Coldplay]

(Also, I'm just saying, describing a gender identification as a disease is, frankly, extraordinarily rude - gender is not a disease, it is part of what makes you who you are.)

You are being overly sensitive; he said that sometimes gender identities are being described like rare diseases, they are not like rare diseases, they are described like rare diseases, go read it if you don't believe me

If I told you that you couldn't classify yourself as a Coldplay/*insert other band here* fan, no matter what, how would you feel about that?

Have you ever in your life been told that you couldn't classify yourself as asexual, or neutral gender? Why is this brought up?

 

Not everyone who is debating with you wants your rights taken away, and oh my god I had the exact same argument with Fix40ClocksYellow2 or whatever his name was, I can't believe we're here again.

 

This is just looking really hard for a reason to be offended by people, which, in the most politely put way possible, is what I think the bulk of this thread is about

 

---

 

I have short hair and I like to dress fairly masculine and it's hard to go a day without someone calling me a butch, mistaking me for a boy, whatever. It hurts sometimes, because I want to be with someone one day and I feel like I can be really pretty and I choose not to be. But labeling and categorizing and subsectioning yourself doesn't help the problem, how can it possibly help. People are mean, they don't care.

 

While I wouldn't say that all this stuff doesn't matter, I think it does to some extent, I mean look, people get bullied. A looot worse than my little anecdote, it's a laugh to even call it bullying compared to the stuff that happens to some people. And other people find comfort in all this because there's a word for who they really feel they are, so they feel less alone.

 

And I think that telling her that she doesn't know what she's talking about because she's fourteen is absurd, like you know any better because you're three or four years older.

 

But how is this a solution? If it's not a solution, it's a cry for attention.

 

If someone on the street looks at you funny and you say

 

'HEY YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE MODERN CIVILIZED WORLD I AM NEUTRAL GENDER AND I AM NEUTROIS AND I LIKE TO BE CALLED THIS AND I AM THIS SEX BUT I AM THIS GENDER AND I AM SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO THIS BUT ROMANTICALLY ATTRACTED TO THAT , but even though I said all that, I am COMPLETELY NORMAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I EXPECT YOU TO TREAT ME AS SUCH until I point out a mistake you made with a pronoun, because it's very disrespectful and you forgot for a second that I am completely unique for many reasons, by the way all of this is to help you better understand society because prior to this you were probably a close-minded fool who probably can't tell the difference between xe and hir :snobby:',

 

are you really changing society? Are you really making the people who respect you, respect you even more? And are you really making the people who love to put you down give a damn about what you said and start respecting you?

 

That humorous little thing there was by the way not an attack on you, but based on experiences I've had with many people my age

 

I mean I respect you sweetie and you're really smart but what's going on here

[Empily]

Yeah I kind of agree that you're blowing this out of proportion. You're allowed to be Genderqueer and asexual, obviously if you feel that way no one should say that you can't. And yes, this way of thinking is very interesting.

Be seriously you shouldn't overthink it and keep worrying about it. and not everyone is going to understand no matter how much you try and shove explanations down their throats.

There are more important things in life than worrying what gender you are not.

[Prospector]

 

 

PEOPLE ARE COMPLICATED AND SPECIFIC. I'm sorry, I felt the need to yell this in order to make a point. (Also, I'm just saying, describing a gender identification as a disease is, frankly, extraordinarily rude - gender is not a disease, it is part of what makes you who you are.) The classifications only matter because they matter to me - they are part of my personal identity. If I told you that you couldn't classify yourself as a Coldplay/*insert other band here* fan, no matter what, how would you feel about that? (I have no idea what your gender/sexual identity is, so I 'm just using this as an absolutely terrible example of what it's like to be specifically prevented from using the classifications that I want to).

 

 

I was not comparing it to a disease, I was saying they way you've been putting it sounds like you are trying to explain a complicated and rare disease, but that isn't a disease! Sorry if I was rude, but I just felt I had to say some of that stuff, I just think you don't need to classificate yourself... sorry again if you got offended.

[The Mad Hatter]

Coldplaying is so progressive that they don't even understand the point of gender at all.

 

:O

[MaxRide]

You are being overly sensitive; he said that sometimes gender identities are being described like rare diseases, they are not like rare diseases, they are described like rare diseases, go read it if you don't believe me

 

Whoops, I didn't read his [?] original statement very thoroughly. That's entirely my fault.

 

(although I'd just like to say that very few people actually do classify gender identities are classified like diseases; I'm not saying that Prospector was doing that, he probably wasn't; I just misread his comment)

 

Have you ever in your life been told that you couldn't classify yourself as asexual, or neutral gender? Why is this brought up?

 

Not everyone who is debating with you wants your rights taken away, and oh my god I had the exact same argument with Fix40ClocksYellow2 or whatever his name was, I can't believe we're here again.

 

This is just looking really hard for a reason to be offended by people, which, in the most politely put way possible, is what I think the bulk of this thread is about

Well, my parents were telling me for a while that there was no point to my self-identification as neutrois and asexual, so yes, I have. :|

 

However, to me - and I may be completely wrong here, so bear with me - Prospector seems to be saying that it's pointless for me to classify myself, which is not entirely true. There is a point to doing so.

 

I know that not everyone here wants to take my rights away - I doubt that anyone in this thread does, to be honest. To make it clear, the only thing that I'm even slightly bothered by is the fact that some people seem to be doubting my ability to classify/label myself, or don't want me to for one reason or another. Classifying myself helps me understand who I am. Other people may not need those labels, and that's great, but I need them, and that's really what I think matters here.

 

Again, I could be completely wrong, but this is what I'm seeing.

 

---

I have short hair and I like to dress fairly masculine and it's hard to go a day without someone calling me a butch, mistaking me for a boy, whatever. It hurts sometimes, because I want to be with someone one day and I feel like I can be really pretty and I choose not to be. But labeling and categorizing and subsectioning yourself doesn't help the problem, how can it possibly help. People are mean, they don't care.

 

While I wouldn't say that all this stuff doesn't matter, I think it does to some extent, I mean look, people get bullied. A looot worse than my little anecdote, it's a laugh to even call it bullying compared to the stuff that happens to some people. And other people find comfort in all this because there's a word for who they really feel they are, so they feel less alone.

 

And I think that telling her that she doesn't know what she's talking about because she's fourteen is absurd, like you know any better because you're three or four years older.

 

But how is this a solution? If it's not a solution, it's a cry for attention.

 

If someone on the street looks at you funny and you say

 

'HEY YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE MODERN CIVILIZED WORLD I AM NEUTRAL GENDER AND I AM NEUTROIS AND I LIKE TO BE CALLED THIS AND I AM THIS SEX BUT I AM THIS GENDER AND I AM SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO THIS BUT ROMANTICALLY ATTRACTED TO THAT , but even though I said all that, I am COMPLETELY NORMAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I EXPECT YOU TO TREAT ME AS SUCH until I point out a mistake you made with a pronoun, because it's very disrespectful and you forgot for a second that I am completely unique for many reasons, by the way all of this is to help you better understand society because prior to this you were probably a close-minded fool who probably can't tell the difference between xe and hir :snobby:',

 

are you really changing society? Are you really making the people who respect you, respect you even more? And are you really making the people who love to put you down give a damn about what you said and start respecting you?

 

That humorous little thing there was by the way not an attack on you, but based on experiences I've had with many people my age

 

I mean I respect you sweetie and you're really smart but what's going on here

*cough* wrong pronouns *cough*

 

(random side note: xe and hir are part of the same pronoun set, as far as I'm aware of; I don't use them, though, so I'm not 100% sure about that)

 

Believe me, this isn't a cry for attention. Originally, the point to this thread was to ask how I should come out to my parents (which I actually have done, by the way), and that's all. Now I'm just trying to explain my point/how I feel. I don't like being the center of attention most of the time - and I'm starting to feel a little uncomfortable as the center of attention now, to be honest.

 

I want as much respect as the next person; no more, no less [although more would be absolutely fine with me :P but I don't care if I get more or not]. Sure, this involves using the right pronouns/terms (terms being sibling/sib instead of sister, child instead of daughter, etc.), but that's really it. I want to change society in that I want trans*/genderqueer people to be able to be treated with the same respect as a cisgendered (for anyone who doesn't know: someone who is comfortable with one's assigned gender) person. That's all.

 

 

i don't even know how to explain myself anymore

[MaxRide]

Yeah I kind of agree that you're blowing this out of proportion. You're allowed to be Genderqueer and asexual, obviously if you feel that way no one should say that you can't. And yes, this way of thinking is very interesting.

Be seriously you shouldn't overthink it and keep worrying about it. and not everyone is going to understand no matter how much you try and shove explanations down their throats.

There are more important things in life than worrying what gender you are not.

If I seem to be blowing this out of proportion, again, I apologize. A lot of the people responding to this thread just appear to be ignoring what I'm saying over and over again - if they're not, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

Well, I'm trying not to overthink it or worry about it all that much, but it's a little difficult to do that with the topic being brought up by others again, am I right?

 

Believe me, I don't even completely understand gender. Heck, nobody really does. I'm just trying to explain how I feel, and if that involves repeating the same/similar things over and over/'shoving things down their throats,' so be it. I don't want to do that, but if I feel like people aren't trying to understand, then that's probably what I'll end up doing, purposefully or not.

 

Oh, I completely agree that there are more important things in life than worrying about gender. I'm only talking about it now because Crestammi bumped the topic, actually (love you Tammi :kiss:); if the thread hadn't been bumped, I wouldn't have bumped it myself. I'm actually kind of sick of talking about this, to be perfectly honest. :P

 

~everyone can return to their lives now~

[Crests]

Haha my bad :P

[MaxRide]

I still love you Tammi :heart:

[Cyan Kat]

The thing is, it's not really about the clothes I wear - it's about how I feel internally. I've never really "felt" like I was a girl/woman, but I definitely didn't "feel" like a boy/man either (and don't ask me how I can possibly feel that I'm not a gender because I have absolutely no idea either, I just do). I just didn't have a word for that idea for a really long time.

 

[Heck, if "female" clothes were actually physically comfortable for me to wear, then I probably would wear them more often - the same applies for "masculine" clothes]

I don't meany any disrespect It's just there seems to be a lot of mention of clothing on previous page. This response confuses me because firstly you say you feel 'internally' not a gender and then go onto say that you'd wear feminine clothes if they were more comfortable :dizzy:

[Cyan Kat]

 

I have short hair and I like to dress fairly masculine and it's hard to go a day without someone calling me a butch, mistaking me for a boy, whatever. It hurts sometimes, because I want to be with someone one day and I feel like I can be really pretty and I choose not to be. But labeling and categorizing and subsectioning yourself doesn't help the problem, how can it possibly help. People are mean, they don't care.

 

While I wouldn't say that all this stuff doesn't matter, I think it does to some extent, I mean look, people get bullied. A looot worse than my little anecdote, it's a laugh to even call it bullying compared to the stuff that happens to some people. And other people find comfort in all this because there's a word for who they really feel they are, so they feel less alone.

I completely agree with this and it's what I think of happening if somebody is just slightly different from all the others.

.....

If you outwardly discuss how you feel anna with people you are friends with I honestly believe that others will have felt similar and that by putting a label to it it makes people automatically think you are different when you aren't as different as they perceive you to be.

I just want you to be careful about labeling yourself, ultimately it's your right, no one is denying that, online being genderqueer is great to find others who relate but in real life it doesn't have the same effect.

[MaxRide]

I don't meany any disrespect It's just there seems to be a lot of mention of clothing on previous page. This response confuses me because firstly you say you feel 'internally' not a gender and then go onto say that you'd wear feminine clothes if they were more comfortable :dizzy:

*Feminine or masculine

 

Basically, how I "present" [god I hate using that word but I don't know how else to explain it otherwise] my (neutral/lack of) gender has nothing to do with my gender identity. I'll wear anything as long as its comfortable.

 

I think what I was trying to say is this: let's say that most pieces of "feminine" clothing were physically comfortable for me to wear, and unisex/ungendered ("ungendered" by society as a whole, I mean; clothes don't have genders anyway, so I'm really talking about what most people think of as "male" and "female" clothes) and "masculine" pieces of clothing generally weren't; then I would probably wear "feminine" clothes most of the time. If the reverse were true - that most pieces of "masculine" clothing were physically comfortable for me to wear, and "feminine" and unisex/ungendered clothing was not, then I would probably wear mostly "masculine" clothing.

 

Taking the above scenario, most pieces of ungendered/unisex clothing are physically comfortable for me to wear, and "female" clothes aren't generally so physically comfortable. (for whatever reason, most clothing that is considered unisex was "originally masculine," but now I'm just confusing myself more so I'll stop here)

 

 

 

 

i'm still not making sense am I

[MaxRide]

I completely agree with this and it's what I think of happening if somebody is just slightly different from all the others.

.....

If you outwardly discuss how you feel anna with people you are friends with I honestly believe that others will have felt similar and that by putting a label to it it makes people automatically think you are different when you aren't as different as they perceive you to be.

I just want you to be careful about labeling yourself, ultimately it's your right, no one is denying that, online being genderqueer is great to find others who relate but in real life it doesn't have the same effect.

I'm just going to take a guess (which will probably be completely wrong, knowing my track record) that by others who have 'felt similar,' you mean people who don't really feel like a man/woman/*insert other gender assigned at birth here*. While this is completely true, I use it more in a way that I don't just not "feel" feminine/like a female, but I also am somewhat uncomfortable with being called as such.

 

(note: Dee, if I'm saying anything that happens to be incorrect below, please correct me)

I'm going to use Dee's example here: she doesn't always seem particularly "female" and/or "looks masculine" to other people, but she doesn't want to be identified as a boy/male. She is sometimes hurt by it, but not at other times (i think i might be wrong).

 

This is -kind of- how I feel about the whole thing: I don't always seem particularly "female" and/or "appears masculine" to other people, but I don't want to be identified as a boy - but, when I do appear "female," I don't want to be identified as a girl either. Basically, both being identified as "female" and being identified as "male" by other people are equally uncomfortable for me at times (whereas, at other times, this "gendering" doesn't bother me at all. but it generally does bother me at least a little, whether or not people are intentionally doing it)

 

...and as far as I know, most people who don't exactly feel "close" to the gender that they were assigned at birth frequently feel uncomfortable as that gender.

 

i don't even know any more

 

also I only have two (/three if you want to count Taameen as an IRL friend because I met her in real life) friends so it isn't very much of an issue in that respect

[Cobalt]

i'm still not making sense am I

 

I think the problem is you're not saying anything new and still explaining it in the exact same way

[MaxRide]

I don't really know how to explain it differently. :shrug:

 

(if someone could tell me what I keep repeating, that would be awesome)

[Coldplay]

Well, my parents were telling me for a while that there was no point to my self-identification as neutrois and asexual, so yes, I have. :|

I'm sorry your parents acted that way. I know people who are trying to find out who exactly they are and they're trying to be comfortable with themselves, and their family takes it as some sort of joke and it's just sad to watch.

 

Bear in mind I'm not trying to antagonize you or put down who you are in anyway, I'm just having a little debate which is one of the most rewarding things about being on here. I hope you're not upset and I hope you can feel like you can always talk to me about something that's on your mind, whether it's venting or advice or whatever.

However, to me - and I may be completely wrong here, so bear with me - Prospector seems to be saying that it's pointless for me to classify myself, which is not entirely true. There is a point to doing so.

I dunno about that. I don't think it's pointless. It's just something that means nothing more and nothing less but a word. Doesn't matter if it's the most common label (i.e. being heterosexual, conforming to your gender role) or something much more abstract or uncommon... it's just something that doesn't require more than 15 seconds of attention, once you've figured out what you think applies to you.

 

I mean I appreciate that you're educating people about it and that's the great part, people are reading this and getting something out of it, but what does it really matter after that, just live your life as normal and don't feel like you have to adopt a completely new identity with rigid new rules on how to interact with people and offense and anger if they don't 100% cooperate, I feel it's unnecessary for a fact as simple as your age and the place you grew up.

 

I think that's what some people were trying to get at but it translated poorly.

Believe me, this isn't a cry for attention.

I know it's not. That was a poor choice of words and I'm sorry. I meant to say that like I couldn't quite understand what the point of this whole debate is, because if it's not for educational reasons, and it's not to address a solution to a problem, what's the point of all this, just for the hell of it, you know?

 

Don't feel bad, you did nothing wrong...

 

EDIT: I see more clearly now that you're offended by being called either gender, that just sucks for your situation, but the thing that concerns me I think after 10...20 years from now you'd get very sick and tired of telling people over and over what you want to be called so I don't know what to say. How will you feel about this when you're an adult? Will you still be as concerned for people calling you the right labels and pronouns, and if you stop, will you just be content without it, or will you see it as a sign of failure and defeat and never really being allowed to be comfortable with yourself? You just never know.

 

See if there were many other people who went through the same thing like you and are grown up now, I could draw a conclusion and it would be easier to prove a point. But there's not that many people. I don't know where they are and how things are working out for them. So it's just up to you: how much are you gonna let it get to you? I'm rambling but I hope it makes a bit of sense.

 

Maybe someone who knows better than me can bring something in here.

 

Also I'm sorry I mess up your pronouns sometimes, I'll do my best to stop.

[MaxRide]

I'm sorry your parents acted that way. I know people who are trying to find out who exactly they are and they're trying to be comfortable with themselves, and their family takes it as some sort of joke and it's just sad to watch.

 

Bear in mind I'm not trying to antagonize you or put down who you are in anyway, I'm just having a little debate which is one of the most rewarding things about being on here. I hope you're not upset and I hope you can feel like you can always talk to me about something that's on your mind, whether it's venting or advice or whatever.

 

and my dad still isn't even trying to appear accepting of it even though the rest of my family (my mom and my two half brothers, I mean) have been completely awesome about the whole situation ._. Ah, well, I wasn't really expecting much understanding from him anyway

 

Oh, don't worry, I'm not [very...okay, I am somewhat, but not really because of your comments specifically] upset about this. I just felt like some people (not you) were turning it into more than just a debate, if that makes any sense.

 

I dunno about that. I don't think it's pointless. It's just something that means nothing more and nothing less but a word. Doesn't matter if it's the most common label (i.e. being heterosexual, conforming to your gender role) or something much more abstract or uncommon... it's just something that doesn't require more than 15 seconds of attention, once you've figured out what you think applies to you.

 

I mean I appreciate that you're educating people about it and that's the great part, people are reading this and getting something out of it, but what does it really matter after that, just live your life as normal and don't feel like you have to adopt a completely new identity with rigid new rules on how to interact with people and offense and anger if they don't 100% cooperate, I feel it's unnecessary for a fact as simple as your age and the place you grew up.

 

I think that's what some people were trying to get at but it translated poorly.

Well, considering how socially awkward I am, I can't really live my life as "normal." :P

 

I can completely understand if people don't understand this whole gender thing themselves; heck, before this summer, I didn't even know that there was a difference between sex and gender. It took me a while to learn everything myself, so I don't immediately expect everyone to understand if/when I explain that there are genders other than male or female. Believe me, I didn't get it either.

 

-that was kind of a general note to any reader of this thread-

 

If it's unnecessary for the situation, I probably won't say anything. :shrug: I almost certainly won't at school, at any rate.

 

actually, I take that back. health teacher I'm looking at you

 

I know it's not. That was a poor choice of words and I'm sorry. I meant to say that like I couldn't quite understand what the point of this whole debate is, because if it's not for educational reasons, and it's not to address a solution to a problem, what's the point of all this, just for the hell of it, you know?

 

Don't feel bad, you didn't do anything wrong

Well, I'm trying to teach people (and other people are teaching me - it's not a one-way street here) in a way...so I guess that's the point of the debate. /probably wrong as usual

[Coldplay]

Read my edit, I wasn't getting this thread too much until I read the lot of it.

[MaxRide]

EDIT: I see more clearly now that you're offended by being called either gender, that just sucks for your situation, but the thing that concerns me I think after 10...20 years from now you'd get very sick and tired of telling people over and over what you want to be called so I don't know what to say. How will you feel about this when you're an adult? Will you still be as concerned for people calling you the right labels and pronouns, and if you stop, will you just be content without it, or will you see it as a sign of failure and defeat and never really being allowed to be comfortable with yourself? You just never know.

 

See if there were many other people who went through the same thing like you and are grown up now, I could draw a conclusion and it would be easier to prove a point. But there's not that many people. I don't know where they are and how things are working out for them. So it's just up to you: how much are you gonna let it get to you? I'm rambling but I hope it makes a bit of sense.

 

Maybe someone who knows better than me can bring something in here.

 

Also I'm sorry I mess up your pronouns sometimes, I'll do my best to stop.

At this point, there are times when I care, and other times when I don't. With my family/friends/other people that I talk to all the time, I care quite a bit about what they call me (but, then again, I have to speak/interact with them all of the time, so that's more of an issue), while at school, I don't mind as much. To be honest, I wish my health teacher would actually say something about the difference between biological sex and gender, but she seems to be pretty unaware of the difference herself...I don't know, I might email her or something if the topic is discussed in class.

 

Basically, I have mixed feelings towards the whole issue. Until most of society actually knows that biological sex =/= gender, I can deal with some gendering by absolute strangers and people who I am not very close with.

I'm taking this from neutrois.com, but it's pretty much true for me [replace "a lot of people" with "I']: "A lot of people would ideally opt to have neutrois recognized as their gender and not be forced to make a decision between male and female only." In other words, I'll deal with being gendered for now, but I wish that I could actually choose the word that really fits how I feel.

 

As for the whole 'being comfortable' thing, though, I really have no idea about how I'll feel about it in the future.

 

Micah is about the only person I've heard of who identifies as neutrois themselves, and they're in their twenties. It's a fairly new identity, though, so it's not exactly easy to find [older] people who identify as neutral gendered/neutrois. :shrug:

 

I appreciate that you're making the effort a lot. :hug:

 

 

 

also, this is completely unrelated, but what do people think of the name Avery? I know that there are men who are named Anna, but I just don't really like the sound of it. :P It doesn't bother me to go by my birth name, so I might just stick with it, but I've always loved the name Avery, and it's kind of gender-neutral at this point. (I know a girl named Avery, but I've heard that it was originally a traditionally masculine name...either way, I love the way it sounds)

 

EDIT: I mean, half the time I really like it, and the other half of the time I could care less. :shrug: I don't really want to change anything, though...idk, it's just an idea. :shrug: I probably won't do anything about it.

[Destrokk]

Avery sounds like a wonderful name!

[Wyrd]

Yes, I like the name!

[Alien Radio]

I love that name!

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Avery_Island