Hurricane Katrina

[Reilly]

This was the biggest hurricane in the history of America, we did have warning it was going to hit, and we didn't take the proper precautions to take care of it. Bush could've moved military and aid units much, much earlier. That's a fact

But the governor of Lousiana didn't ask for help before the hurricane hit...

 

In another part of my gigantic post, I did mention how it was both federal AND local government's fault.

 

I dont see how Kathleen Babineux Blanco should be held very accountable for this, she did turn away at Commissioner LeBlanc's warning sign's but its not local governments job to worry about a hurricane that affects the nation.

 

The federal government should have dealt with their knowledge in having information on which states would be most damaged.

 

 

but its the local and or states place to take care of it. until it gets out of hand...thats how it works...it worked that way in florida last year....and if katrina wasnt that bad it would have been that way...its the failure of local and state goverment that did this....people dont seem to understand thats how america's system works.

 

Hello, hello. Like I mentioned, the levee's were the entire problem here. They couldnt deal with the size (Level 5 hurricane).

 

The topic has been brought up in Congress, and ignored, for 30 years now. What would be the point in bringing it up again? Bush ignored warnings in 2001 (Like I mentioned, even before the focus was put on September 11th) despite scientists and politicians alike agreeing that it was suicidal to go on without action, knowing that in an estimated 3 or 4 years a hurricane would be sizeable in New Orleans.

 

Given that N.O is well above sea level, could only deal with a Size 2 or 3 hurricane, isnt it absolutely ridiculous that Bush took his chances with it and didnt agree to pay out?

[gentleparachute]

This was the biggest hurricane in the history of America, we did have warning it was going to hit, and we didn't take the proper precautions to take care of it. Bush could've moved military and aid units much, much earlier. That's a fact

But the governor of Lousiana didn't ask for help before the hurricane hit...

 

I still say the federal government should have done more... How is a local government supposed to deal with something so devastating no matter what it says about being able to "handle the situation"? Granted you could argue that the authorities never expected a hurricane of this magnitude to hit, but federal agencies should still have been prepared to act in the event that help became evidently needed. After all, this is what disaster preparation is all about. The president has a responsibility to get the agencies working together in some semblance of a co-operation. This is what a leader is for- to get people working together so they can better achieve a common goal, not get in each other's way.

[colduser]

To President Bush's mother, everything is turning out hunky-dory for the New Orleans evacuees who lost everything.

 

Former First Lady Barbara Bush was about the most chipper visitor yesterday to the Houston Astrodome, where thousands who fled the Hurricane Katrina disaster are sheltered.

 

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them," the Bush family's matriarch chuckled as she spoke on National Public Radio's "Marketplace" program.

 

Bush was touring the stadium with her husband, former President George H.W. Bush, and ex-President Bill Clinton, who have teamed up to spearhead fund-raising efforts for the disaster recovery.

 

"Almost everyone I've talked to wants to move to Houston," said Barbara Bush of the beleaguered evacuees.

 

"What I'm hearing is they all want to stay in Texas," she continued. "Everyone is so overwhelmed with the hospitality."

 

Clinton, meanwhile, joined the rising tide of criticism of the deadly delays and snafus following the storm. "Our government failed those people in the beginning. There is no dispute about it," he told CNN.

 

The elder Bush said he didn't like the knocks his son was taking from some critics, but added, "As a President, it goes with the territory."

 

Later, on "Larry King Live," he defended his son and disputed critics who say the delays in getting relief to New Orleans proved the President doesn't care about poor black people. "Now that one hurt because I know this President, and I know he does care," he said

[Guest LiquidSky]

In another part of my gigantic post, I did mention how it was both federal AND local government's fault.

 

You didn't really think I was going to read all that, did you? I only read the last part, since the last part is always the conclusion..

 

I dont see how Kathleen Babineux Blanco should be held very accountable for this, she did turn away at Commissioner LeBlanc's warning sign's but its not local governments job to worry about a hurricane that affects the nation.

I believe, Nick already answered that for you.. next question..

 

Hello, hello. Like I mentioned, the levee's were the entire problem here. They couldnt deal with the size (Level 5 hurricane).

 

The topic has been brought up in Congress, and ignored, for 30 years now. What would be the point in bringing it up again? Bush ignored warnings in 2001 (Like I mentioned, even before the focus was put on September 11th) despite scientists and politicians alike agreeing that it was suicidal to go on without action, knowing that in an estimated 3 or 4 years a hurricane would be sizeable in New Orleans.

 

Given that N.O is well above sea level, could only deal with a Size 2 or 3 hurricane, isnt it absolutely ridiculous that Bush took his chances with it and didnt agree to pay out?

 

Exactly, the leeves were the problem..

 

So if you are the governor and you know there's a hurricane coming and a big one (level 5) and you know that even if it was just a little hurricane level 2, it would do so much damage anyways, because the leeves weren't working properly and needed to be fixed, what do you do?

 

You ask for help and call the federal goverment and the president to get all those people out of there and force them to leave if they don't want to and thread the federal goverment & the president if they don't do to what you say..well not thread them that sounds like doing harm, but convince them.. If you are a governor, I'm sure doing some "convencing" shouldn't be that hard for you.. :rolleyes: but no........... she didn't even bothered to do that. Instead she thought she could handle it and now she is like.. "Here you can have the rest of the big pie. I'm fulled, I can't eat it " :dozey:

 

After all, this is what disaster preparation is all about. The president has a responsibility to get the agencies working together in some semblance of a co-operation. This is what a leader is for- to get people working together so they can better achieve a common goal, not get in each other's way

 

And that's what I meant about the "convencing"..

[berrywoman]

^ they've been asking for financial aide in that region for years.... to improve the levees... and the fed. gov. denied them funds. Grant it.. its not entirely Bush and his administrations fault.. but again.. kack of communication has cause thousands to perish.

 

He must take some sort of repsonibility.

[Guest LiquidSky]

^ they've been asking for financial aide in that region for years.... to improve the levees... and the fed. gov. denied them funds. Grant it.. its not entirely Bush and his administrations fault.. but again.. kack of communication has cause thousands to perish.

 

He must take some sort of repsonibility.

 

Yes, I know that..but I was talking about now.. Convincing them before the hurricane hit, not if they asked to fix the levees for years..but whatever..all that could have been prevented..and it wasn't...unfortunately :dozey: I just hope all those people that were shooting other people while being rescued.... I just hope they don't come here... :dead: We don't need more violence... :/

[berrywoman]

that city is popluated by low inome families.. and many whom don't have means of transportation. Some in wheelchairs.. and old... yeah, the city could have done more to mobilze them... but you can't really force people to leave.. its their right to stay. Even now people don't want to leave.. the city is practically abandoned... and they still don't want to leave.. most because they have nothing else.. :cry:

[Guest LiquidSky]

I know that, Camille... :/ (Are we discussing this or are you just saying? :confused: ) They showed this old lady who died in her wheelchair outside the Superdome...that broke my heart.. :stunned: :cry: Does anyone know if Coldplay has donated anything to the redcross for this cause? :idea2: :huh:

[lilchick629]

i heard that congress has opened an investigation already to know who was responsible for this nonesense---------i hope whoever was responsible for the lack of help is fired--whoever it is, they should all get fired :angry:

[berrywoman]

I know that' date=' Camille... :/ (Are we discussing this or are you just saying? :confused: ) They showed this old lady who died in her wheelchair outside the Superdome...that broke my heart.. :stunned: :cry: Does anyone know if Coldplay has donated anything to the redcross for this cause? :idea2: :huh:[/quote']

 

 

I wasn't aruguing the point.. just stating my 2 cents worth.... :embarrased:

 

I think they have thru Oxfam... they have a donation fund as well.

[Egghead]

The police aren't being too nice to the media...

"Toronto Star staff photojournalist Lucas Oleniuk was taken to the ground by police in the Spanish Quarter after he photographed a firefight between looters and police, and police were then reportedly "beating on" a looter. A coworker at the Toronto Star told News Photographer magazine tonight, "The cops saw him and put him down, and took his gear. At first they were going to take all of his cameras, but he talked them into only taking the memory cards and letting him keep the cameras."

link (political website)

 

 

Monday's NY Times:

"The most frightening experience was still to come for one reporter, Gordon Russell, reporting from New Orleans. Last Thursday, when the streets seemed ripe for riots to break out, he and a photographer drove from the Convention Center into the aftermath of what looked like a shootout. A bloodied body lay on the ground and police officers had their weapons up.

 

"The photographer, Marko Georgiev, a freelancer for The New York Times, said that as he slowed his car to take a photo, the police trained their weapons on the car. Ordered from the car, the two men were pushed face-first against the car and nearby walls with hands up. Police officers threw their notebooks and camera equipment to the ground and ordered them to leave."

 

 

MSNBC:

"While we were attempting to take pictures of the National Guard (a unit from Oklahoma) taking up positions outside a Brooks Brothers on the edge of the Quarter, the sergeant ordered us to the other side of the boulevard...At that same fire scene, a police officer from out of town raised the muzzle of her weapon and aimed it at members of the media... obvious members of the media... armed only with notepads."

link

[berrywoman]

:stunned:

[Egghead]

That really pisses me off as a photographer who knows his rights. The police have no right to confiscate anything without a warrant. They can tell them to stop shooting if its on private property, but they have no right to assault people. Those things that they threw on the ground probably broke, and cost thousands of dollars.

[berrywoman]

Not that its any excuse... but these guys are tired and frustrated.. maybe they feel thaey can get away with this type of behaviour because of the current situations.. but thats just sad. I think this is working on everyone's last nerve... these guys are stressed... and take it out on others. (apparently)

[Ambergris]

Saw in news there's other tropical storm (Ophelia?) getting closer to Florida. :confused:

[Gitta Rensolo]

Yes saw it,too....oh my god!!!! :( :( :(

[an_cat]

A story I enjoyed.

 

source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9230423/

 

Survivor Story: 6-Year-Old Leads Five Toddlers, Baby To Safety

 

In the chaos that was Causeway Boulevard in New Orleans last Thursday, one group of survivors stood out: a 6-year-old boy walking down the road, holding a 5-month-old, surrounded by five toddlers who followed him around as if he were their leader.

 

They were holding hands. Three of the children were about two years old, and one was wearing only diapers. A three-year-old girl, who wore colorful barrettes on the ends of her braids, had her 14-month-old brother in tow. The 6-year-old spoke for all of them, and he told rescuers his name was Deamonte Love.

 

Thousands of human stories have flown past relief workers in the last week, but few have touched them as much as the seven children who were found wandering together Thursday at an evacuation point in downtown New Orleans. In the Baton Rouge headquarters of the rescue operation, paramedics tried to coax their names out of them; nurses who examined them stayed up that night, brooding.

 

Transporting the children alone was "the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, knowing that their parents are either dead" or that they had been abandoned, said Pat Coveney, a Houston emergency medical technician who put them into the back of his ambulance and drove them out of New Orleans.

 

"It goes back to the same thing," he said. "How did a 6-year-old end up being in charge of six babies?"

 

So far, parents displaced by flooding have reported 220 children missing, but that number is expected to rise, said Mike Kenner of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which will help reunite families. With crowds churning at evacuation points, many children were parted from their parents accidentally; one woman handed her baby up onto a bus, turned around to pick up her suitcase and turned back to find that the bus had left.

 

At the rescue headquarters, a cool tile-floored building swarming with firefighters and paramedics, the children ate cafeteria food and fell into a deep sleep. Deamonte volunteered his vital statistics. He said his father was tall and his mother was short. He gave his address, his phone number and the name of his elementary school.

 

He said the 5-month-old was his brother, Darynael, and that two others were his cousins, Tyreek and Zoria. The other three lived in his apartment building.

 

The children were clean and healthy -- downright plump in the case of the infant, said Joyce Miller, a nurse who examined them. It was clear, she said, that "time had been taken with those kids." The baby was "fat and happy."

 

"This baby child was terrified," he said. "After she relaxed, it was gobble, gobble, gobble."

 

As grim dispatches came in from the field, one woman in the office burst into tears at the thought that the children had been abandoned in New Orleans, said Sharon Howard, assistant secretary of the office of public health.

 

Late the same night, they got an encouraging report: A woman in a shelter in Thibodeaux was searching for seven children. People in the building started clapping at the news. But when they got the mother on the phone, it became clear that she was looking for a different group of seven children, Howard said.

 

"What that made me understand was that this was happening across the state," she said. "That kind of frightened me."

 

The children were transferred to a shelter operated by the Department of Social Services, rooms full of toys and cribs where mentors from the Big Buddy Program were on hand day and night. For the next two days, the staff did detective work.

 

Deamonte began to give more details to Derrick Robertson, a 27-year-old Big Buddy mentor: How he saw his mother cry when he was loaded onto the helicopter. How he promised her he'd take care of his little brother.

 

Late Saturday night, they found Deamonte's mother, who was in a shelter in San Antonio along with the four mothers of the other five children. Catrina Williams, 26, saw her children's pictures on a web site set up over the weekend by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. By Sunday, a private plane from Angel Flight was waiting to take the children to Texas.

 

In a phone interview, Williams said she is the kind of mother who doesn't let her children out of her sight. What happened the Thursday after the hurricane, she said, was that her family, trapped in an apartment building on the 3200 block of Third Street in New Orleans, began to feel desperate.

 

The water wasn't going down and they had been living without light, food or air conditioning for four days. The baby needed milk and the milk was gone. So she decided they would evacuate by helicopter. When a helicopter arrived to pick them up they were told to send the children first and that the helicopter would be back in 25 minutes. She and her neighbors had to make a quick decision.

 

It was a wrenching moment. Williams' father, Adrian Love, told her to send the children ahead.

 

"I told them to go ahead and give them up, because me, I would give my life for my kids. They should feel the same way," said Love, 48. "They were shedding tears. I said, Let the babies go.' "

 

His daughter and her friends followed his advice.

 

"We did what we had to do for our kids, because we love them," Williams said.

 

The helicopter didn't come back. While the children were transported to Baton Rouge, their parents wound up in Texas, and although Williams was reassured that they would be reunited, days passed without any contact. On Sunday, she was elated.

 

"All I know is I just want to see my kids," she said. "Everything else will just fall into place."

 

At 3 p.m. Sunday, DSS workers said good-by to seven children who now had names: Deamonte Love; Darynael Love; Zoria Love and her brother Tyreek. The girl who cried "Gabby!" was Gabrielle Janae Alexander. The girl they called Peanut was Degahney Carter. And the boy whom they called G was actually Lee -- Leewood Moore Jr.

 

The children were strapped into car seats and driven to an airport, where they were flown to San Antonio to rejoin their parents. As they loaded into the van, the shelter workers looked in the windows; some wept.

 

The baby gaped with delight in the front seat. Deamonte was hanging onto Robertson's neck so desperately that Robertson decided, at the last minute, to ride with him as far as Lafayette.

 

Shelter worker Kori Thomas, held Zoria, 3, who reached out to smooth her eyebrows. Tyreek put a single fat finger on the van window by way of goodbye.

 

Robertson said he doubted the children would remember much of the helicopter evacuation, the Causeway, the sweltering heat or the smell of the flooded city.

 

"I think what's going to stick with them is that they survived Hurricane Katrina," he said. "And that they were loved."

[berrywoman]

FEMA Dumps Brown As Katrina Relief Chief

 

Saturday September 10, 2005 12:46 AM

 

 

AP Photo LARC202

 

By LARA JAKES JORDAN

 

Associated Press Writer

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration dumped FEMA Director Michael Brown as commander of Hurricane Katrina relief efforts Friday, then abruptly scrapped plans to give $2,000 debit cards to displaced storm victims as it struggled to get a grip on the recovery operation.

 

Buffeted by criticism, President Bush stirred memories of the 2001 terror attacks as he hailed the ``acts of great compassion and extraordinary bravery from America's first responders,'' then as now.

 

Brown, who had come to personify a relief operation widely panned as bumbling, will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad W. Allen. Allen had been in charge of relief, recovery and rescue efforts for New Orleans.

 

The decision to order Brown back to Washington from Louisiana - he remains as director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency - marked the administration's latest attempt to assert leadership in the wake of the devastating storm and its aftermath, including the weakest public opinion polls of Bush's time in office.

 

Still, there was fresh evidence of raggedness in the effort when FEMA announced late in the day that it would discontinue a two-day-old program to issue debit cards worth up to $2,000 to displaced families. Evacuees relocated to Texas, many of whom began receiving cards on Friday, will continue getting them, officials said.

 

Hurricane victims at other locations will have to apply for expedited aid through the agency's traditional route - filling out information on FEMA's Web site to receive direct bank deposits, FEMA spokeswoman Natalie Rule said.

 

Brown introduced the program on Wednesday, calling it ``a great way to ... empower these hurricane survivors to really start rebuilding their lives.''

 

At the White House, spokesman Scott McClellan said the decision to reassign Brown had been made by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and that Bush supported it.

 

One Republican welcomed Brown's ouster with unusually sharp language. ``Something needed to happen. Michael Brown has been acting like a private instead of a general,'' said Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi, whose state was hard-hit by the storm.

 

Senate Democrats, who have been sharply critical of Bush's response to the storm, said the president should not have left Brown as head of FEMA. In a letter to the president, the Democratic leader, Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, and three other members of the leadership called for the dismissal of the FEMA director.

 

He ``simply doesn't have the ability or the experience to oversee a coordinated federal response of this magnitude,'' wrote Reid and Sens. Dick Durbin of Illinois, Chuck Schumer of New York and Debbie Stabenow of Michigan.

 

Separately, Reid and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist opened private discussions over a GOP plan for a congressional committee to investigate the administration's readiness for the storm and reaction to it.

 

Republicans hold a majority in both the House and Senate, and Frist and Speaker Dennis Hastert announced plans this week for a joint panel with more GOP members than Democrats. Reid and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi have said they would boycott the proceedings, calling for an independent commission instead.

 

Bush's public support rose dramatically in the days following the attacks of 2001. He linked that time with the present at a ceremony Friday awarding medals to family members of fire, police and other first responders killed by terrorists four years ago.

 

``When America has been challenged, there have always been citizens willing to step forward and risk their lives for the rest of us,'' the president said. ``Over the last 11 days in Louisiana and Mississippi and Alabama, we have again seen acts of great compassion and extraordinary bravery from America's first responders.''

 

Bush said the nation was ``still at the beginning of a huge effort. The tasks before us are enormous. Yet so is the heart of the United States.''

 

Thus far, the tab for federal relief has reached $62.3 billion, with billions more expected to be needed in the months and years to come.

 

The rising price tag spread nervousness among some lawmakers. Rep. Zach Wamp, R-Tenn., touring a shelter for evacuees in Chattanooga, said the combined cost of recovery and the Iraq War were a good reason to postpone a costly Medicare prescription drug benefit.

 

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., said mere reconstruction of a Gulf Coast area that is home to large numbers of poor black Americans wasn't enough. ``When we rebuild the land ravaged by the winds and the floods, we must rebuild it to be a more just and fair land,'' he said.

 

The government continued to produce reports and declarations testifying to the destructive power of the storm that roared out of the Gulf of Mexico and spread destruction along the coast from Texas to Florida.

 

The Commerce Department declared a fishery failure in the region, an action that makes federal relief funds available to assess and repair damage to fisheries. Fishermen will be eligible for direct assistance, as well.

 

Brown had faced fierce, bipartisan criticism for days, and on Friday, was confronted with questions of whether he had padded his professional resume.

 

Chertoff announced his fate to reporters in Louisiana, saying, the director had ``done everything he possibly could to coordinate the federal response to this unprecedented challenge.''

 

Asked if he was being made a scapegoat, Brown told The Associated Press after a long pause: ``By the press, yes. By the president, no.''

 

As for his plans, he said, ``I'm going to go home and walk my dog and hug my wife, and maybe get a good Mexican meal and a stiff margarita and a full night's sleep.

 

``And then I'm going to go right back to FEMA and continue to do all I can to help these victims.''

 

Allen, tapped to replace Brown, has direct experience in hurricane relief operations.

 

Early in his Coast Guard career, Allen was involved in search-and-rescue missions and later directed them in the Caribbean. He headed Coast Guard operations in the Southeast United States and the Caribbean.

 

In the days after the 2001 terrorist attacks, he was assigned to make sure the ports and waterways were secure and that local responders in the New York area had the vessels, aircraft and personnel they needed.

 

---

 

Associated Press Writers Ron Fournier, Ted Bridis and Nedra Pickler contributed to this story.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5267798,00.html

 

:)

[Guest LiquidSky]

I know that' date=' Camille... :/ (Are we discussing this or are you just saying? :confused: ) They showed this old lady who died in her wheelchair outside the Superdome...that broke my heart.. :stunned: :cry: Does anyone know if Coldplay has donated anything to the redcross for this cause? :idea2: :huh:[/quote']

 

 

I wasn't aruguing the point.. just stating my 2 cents worth.... :embarrased:

 

I think they have thru Oxfam... they have a donation fund as well.

 

Aww okies.. I wasn't sure if you were just saying or trying to make a point.. :) Btw, Coldplay is going to be on the React Now tomorrow @ 8pm ;) Commercial free! ;)

[berrywoman]

is it confirmed?? I heard it was rumored... :idea2:

[Guest LiquidSky]

I heard on mtv news... :idea2:

[berrywoman]

woohoo!!

[Guest LiquidSky]

Wotwoth! :guitarist:

[twin4life]

The police aren't being too nice to the media...

"Toronto Star staff photojournalist Lucas Oleniuk was taken to the ground by police in the Spanish Quarter after he photographed a firefight between looters and police, and police were then reportedly "beating on" a looter. A coworker at the Toronto Star told News Photographer magazine tonight, "The cops saw him and put him down, and took his gear. At first they were going to take all of his cameras, but he talked them into only taking the memory cards and letting him keep the cameras."

link (political website)

 

 

Monday's NY Times:

"The most frightening experience was still to come for one reporter, Gordon Russell, reporting from New Orleans. Last Thursday, when the streets seemed ripe for riots to break out, he and a photographer drove from the Convention Center into the aftermath of what looked like a shootout. A bloodied body lay on the ground and police officers had their weapons up.

 

"The photographer, Marko Georgiev, a freelancer for The New York Times, said that as he slowed his car to take a photo, the police trained their weapons on the car. Ordered from the car, the two men were pushed face-first against the car and nearby walls with hands up. Police officers threw their notebooks and camera equipment to the ground and ordered them to leave."

 

 

MSNBC:

"While we were attempting to take pictures of the National Guard (a unit from Oklahoma) taking up positions outside a Brooks Brothers on the edge of the Quarter, the sergeant ordered us to the other side of the boulevard...At that same fire scene, a police officer from out of town raised the muzzle of her weapon and aimed it at members of the media... obvious members of the media... armed only with notepads."

link

 

i read that story about what happend in toronto! it's absolutly terrible the way things have beem going...

[berrywoman]

God Bless Jon Stewart!! :blush:

 

Check out a clip from a recent show... 'Inarguable Failure'... :lol:

 

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml?start=1