'27 dead' in Connecticut primary school shooting

[Coeurli]

^ :surprised: Oh, right, that's something they could say.

 

Not a great solution either, though.

[coldlocked]

There's one police officer in every school for my district, but then again, we're a tiny district. For a town bigger than mine (NYC for example) that would be a problem.

[Prospector]

^There should be a security guard armed in every school.

 

They were discussing this for public schools on my state a while ago actually... people were not very happy with the idea.

[Italian Plastic]

^There should be a security guard armed in every school.

 

I think that's a little over the top...I mean I don't actually know what schools in the US are like but I think having a better lockdown system in place would be more effective.

[Coeurli]

That wouldn't solve the "real" problem though, or only a part of it. As Reilly said, there aren't "just" school shootings, but there are thousands and thousands of murders every year. You don't solve that with an improved security system.

[rainplay]

Children? 1st Graders? This is just pure evil.

 

People who are this disturbed are going to find a way to do things like this regardless of how easy it is to get their hand on a gun..Okay, I get that. But why make is so easy!? And why the hell do people need freaking war grade weapons to protect themselves? You don't . "Oh, but what if someone breaks into my house!? I can't protect myself without my Ak-47!" "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" Good lord. Shut up.

Gun control has to be talked about.. It's not the only factor as to why these things happen. But why make is so freaking easy for psychos to get a hold of them?! It's 2012. For whatever reasons that made the second amendment a good idea in the time that it was established, there is no longer that same need. It's not the freaking wild west anymore.

 

/rant

 

Oh, and I saw this on twitter

[Italian Plastic]

That wouldn't solve the "real" problem though, or only a part of it. As Reilly said, there aren't "just" school shootings, but there are thousands and thousands of murders every year. You don't solve that with an improved security system.

 

Well, yeah. I think there are A LOT of different steps needed to help prevent things like this from happening.

[Coeurli]

:nod:

[Reilly]

Well, yeah. I think there are A LOT of different steps needed to help prevent things like this from happening.

 

They said there were a LOT of different steps to handling this when Columbine happened, those guys were bullied, it's a societal issue, etc. and a decade later (When nobody cared anymore) it finally turned out those guys were actually bullying the kids in their class, and that they weren't exactly tortured individuals but egomaniacs who didn't give a shit about anything- the point being, it's a much different story then initially thought, with many variables. Now we're saying the same thing again, but there is nothing to indefinitely stop mental illness and these tragedies happening. When something like this happens it's always horrible for what happened to the victims and everyone around them, but I never look at the actual killers with disgust, because it's simply unimaginable to enter that frame of mind for nearly any person. We can't understand how someone could do such a thing or why, but the tiny category of people capable of doing something like this will always exist and I don't believe there's any way of stopping such mindless violence or more importantly, violent intent, the most important thing is stopping pretty much anyone with the opportunity to commit that violent intent.

 

On a news channel yesterday they discussed how a viewer sent in an email and brought up the point of protection, which is true- that 60% of homicides from guns are resolved as self-defence (That's not exactly convincing in itself but anyway), what they failed to look into is what passes as reasonable grounds for self-defence and in any indisputable case it's nearly always when the attacker had a gun! So although we can't whittle down every single situation, and I'm sure there's been many cases where people legitimately needed a gun to save their life, overall however the "protection" is actually the source of the problem in the first place.

 

However, eddilly 4 lyf.

[vanessarrent]

^ :surprised: Oh, right, that's something they could say.

 

Not a great solution either, though.

 

They were discussing this for public schools on my state a while ago actually... people were not very happy with the idea.

 

I think that's a little over the top...I mean I don't actually know what schools in the US are like but I think having a better lockdown system in place would be more effective.

 

I know that it's not the best solution. But, it can help, it can save lives. Even if the security guard have just a taser gun.

Anyway, as long as human will exist, it will always be tragedy like this.

[Texasluvsjonny]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse:

 

Shirley Phelps-Roper‏@DearShirley11h

Westboro will picket Sandy Hook Elementary School to sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment.

 

 

:veryangry2:

[Reilly]

^Oh fuck, I'm guessing Westboro justify this as 6 and 7 year olds advocating faggotry. There aren't many groups of people that actually fill me with anger, but that "church" just keeps sinking to new lows purely for attention and not just to save anyone, and I'm sure somewhere deep down they know this, it makes me sick.

[Texasluvsjonny]

Fucking scum bags!

[Technicolour TX]

Children? 1st Graders? This is just pure evil.

 

People who are this disturbed are going to find a way to do things like this regardless of how easy it is to get their hand on a gun..Okay, I get that. But why make is so easy!? And why the hell do people need freaking war grade weapons to protect themselves? You don't . "Oh, but what if someone breaks into my house!? I can't protect myself without my Ak-47!" "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" Good lord. Shut up.

Gun control has to be talked about.. It's not the only factor as to why these things happen. But why make is so freaking easy for psychos to get a hold of them?! It's 2012. For whatever reasons that made the second amendment a good idea in the time that it was established, there is no longer that same need. It's not the freaking wild west anymore.

 

/rant

 

Oh, and I saw this on twitter

 

 

Excellent post.

 

Although I'm pretty conservative in nature, I cannot fathom why assault weapons are needed by regular members of the public. If someone wants to protect themselves with a handgun for self defense, I understand and support it, but multi-round assault weapons should not be available to anyone except for military and law enforcement. And I agree, the 2nd Amendment gets twisted by many people. If our forefathers knew that assault weapons and such would be invented over time and purchased by individuals, they probably would've created different verbiage.

 

Interesting how I need to pass a written test and driving test to get my driver's license. I also have to be bonded, pass a written test and have SEC confirmation to keep my investment licenses (as an investment rep), but to get a gun, I simply need to fill out a few forms and have a background check run on me. Then, very easily, I get access to a deadly weapon. Pretty sad.

 

I'm all for the right to bear arms and for hunters to have them, but there must be common sense applied to it. And the past few years have shown a dramatic surge in deaths by automatic assault weapons. Funny thing is, the responsible gun owners I know are hunters by nature, and many of them say they would never own any kind of automatic assault weapon. Although I don't like hunting myself, I can appreciate that even those folks that do (the ones I know) are no fans of assault weapons.

 

Something needs to change. And although I didn't vote for Obama, I support him 100% in hopefully changing all of this. And I don't just want tougher laws and tougher background checks, I want access to these assault weapons totally banned.

[Spider-Man]

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

 

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

 

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

 

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed

people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

 

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[Tnspieler1012]

^ I'll bet you read that imagining his voice.

[Violet]

^^ I was just going to post that. Morgan Freeman is so awesome. :wacky:

 

But yeah. Westboro Baptist Church. I don't have hatred for a lot of people, but they are definitely part of that category. You have to be particularly callous to do the stuff they do.

[Lauriane]

 

 

You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. "

 

But why not point to gun control as the problem ? Even if it is not the only problem, it is a huge part of it ! Of course the person was sick, of course it's his fault because he was the one holding the gun ; but as said someone here, why make it so easy ?

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not American), but I feel like in the USA you can buy yourself a gun just like you'd buy toothpaste... A long time ago, it had to be authorised because it was so hard to call for help... But now, in 2012 ? Can't people find other ways to protect themselves ?

Someone mentionned the guy who attacked 22 kids in China, saying it was the same. It was not. Because no one was killed, because it takes way longueur to actually really hurt someone with a knife. Of course a kids were hurt, of course they're traumatised ; but did parents lose their babies 10 days before Christmas ? No. The violence is the same, but the impact isn't.

In France, for instance, you have to get a sort of licence (?) before being able to use and to buy a gun. That means that most of the time, if the potential seller feels like the person in front of them is too fragile, mentions strange ideas (...) they won't sell it. Gunhold is not forbidden, it is just strictly monitored ; and I think that's what should happen in the USA. Of course it doesn't stop everything, because there's always other ways to find them and everything ; but in the end, you never hear of these kinds of problems here.

 

Anyways, even though I don't think gunhold is the only problem, I still think it is "too easy". But I do agree with you on the role of the media.

[Coeurli]

^I second this.

Although I'm pretty conservative in nature, I cannot fathom why assault weapons are needed by regular members of the public. If someone wants to protect themselves with a handgun for self defense, I understand and support it, but multi-round assault weapons should not be available to anyone except for military and law enforcement. And I agree, the 2nd Amendment gets twisted by many people. If our forefathers knew that assault weapons and such would be invented over time and purchased by individuals, they probably would've created different verbiage.

 

Interesting how I need to pass a written test and driving test to get my driver's license. I also have to be bonded, pass a written test and have SEC confirmation to keep my investment licenses (as an investment rep), but to get a gun, I simply need to fill out a few forms and have a background check run on me. Then, very easily, I get access to a deadly weapon. Pretty sad.

 

I'm all for the right to bear arms and for hunters to have them, but there must be common sense applied to it. And the past few years have shown a dramatic surge in deaths by automatic assault weapons. Funny thing is, the responsible gun owners I know are hunters by nature, and many of them say they would never own any kind of automatic assault weapon. Although I don't like hunting myself, I can appreciate that even those folks that do (the ones I know) are no fans of assault weapons.

 

Something needs to change. And although I didn't vote for Obama, I support him 100% in hopefully changing all of this. And I don't just want tougher laws and tougher background checks, I want access to these assault weapons totally banned.

 

Thank you for this post. I feel America just needs to start being reasonable.

[The Final Track]

I agree with Mike, there should definitely be restrictions on assault weapons. Australia banned them after their massacre in '96 and haven't had one since. Also, it's way too easy for people who shouldn't have guns to get guns, for example the Aurora shooter who the authorities has been warned against by his psychologist. He could literally walk into a store and buy a gun. All in all I think it's linked to the awful healthcare system America has.

 

 

 

this is pretty interesting too, especially the graph on how many guns used in homicides every year are purchased illegally.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

 

And well said about the overshadowing of other homicide cases, Reilly.

[Coeurli]

^Very interesting list indeed.

[the_gloaming09]

^Those graphs were interesting!

 

Of course banning, or at least limiting guns to people is a big part of the issue. Like I mentioned before the need for someone to own an assault weapon just makes no sense whatsoever.

 

However I feel that this problem is much more than just guns, and there are so many factors into this. I'd like to summarize my thoughts, hopefully quickly.

 

First I think a big problem is parenting, however I think that a lot of this is not related just to guns but also to many other issues that children face during their development. From a personal standpoint I have noticed especially within my own extended family that the parents that had a more active interaction with their kids, taught them responsibility and right from wrong, and also boosted their confidence had significantly less problems. If you can't teach your children right from wrong how can they know better? Parents need to teach their kids that killing someone is never right. Also I read that the mother of this gunman was a gun enthusiast herself. From the get go that is going to be a problem and she should've separated that hobby away from her children, and if after time they wanted to follow the same way they had the choice. It doesn't seem like a good idea to raise a child in a home where guns are considered the norm.

 

Another problem is as many have mentioned mental health. Once again I'd like to speak from experience but it is almost a forgotten health condition. I know people that suffer from health issues such as panic attacks however because it's not something that you can see like a broken leg, I get the impression that people don't fully understand what it is like for a person. So I think in that sense we have to be more compassionate towards these people and also realize that mental health is equally if not more important if just for that reason alone.

 

Another big issue is (as some people posted), the medias part in this whole thing. I'm not saying that people shouldn't know about what is going on but is problematic on many fronts. Firstly by having so much coverage on the story in some sick way it makes the killer almost like a celebrity. I mean just think about it. I'm sure that almost everyone knows the faces or names of people from the shootings at Columbine, or VT, or Tuscon or whatever it is. You can even look at someone like Mark David Chapman who said that one of the reasons he killed John Lennon was because he was a nobody. If you give the media an outlet to constantly report on this for days or weeks on end I'm sure it will give the next lonely emotionally-unstable person the thoughts to do the same to finally be heard and not be a nobody, even at the expense of others.

 

Moving along another issue is the desensitization of people today in regard to violence. Yes perhaps movies, tv, news or most importantly video games don't actually make someone want to do this, but when you think about it if you are playing a videogame and kill someone there are no emotional consequences connected to it at all.

 

 

Bottom line when it comes down to it I think the biggest problem is parenting because the parents need to have a more active role in the childs life in teaching them right from wrong. Also if the parents have that role they will see if there is something wrong with them emotionally and try to get them the help needed. The last thing is that if you start a child off on the right direction and limit the amount of violence seen with tv/video games or at least talk to them about it I'm sure they'll be better off. Of course guns have to be looked at and definitely reconsidered.

[the_gloaming09]

I also saw this yesterday... (thanks to chris and greg sending it)

 

[ame=

]

[/ame]

[Coeurli]

^^ You've raised interesting points here, however, in every developed countries, 3 main elements (parenting, mental health and violence in films/video games) are there too, yet you don't see mass shootings happening a lot (or as many murders, especially using guns, as in the US).

Which makes me think the most important factor here, that actually includes all your elements but explains why it happens in America more than anywhere else, is that it's cultural. There's a culture of extremes and of violence in the US, that you don't see anywhere else. Everywhere, you see parents messing up their kids' education, mental health isn't always treated well, and kids from all around the world now watch the same films and play the same video games. However, you're all right when raising the problem of the media: they go to the extreme, especially in the US. And you have to add to that the gun culture, and the general culture of violence that is still very strong in the US. This explains why kids can't eat Kinder Surprise or some kinds of cheese (because of very strict policies on food cf the extreme thing I was talking about, when something is done in the US, it's not half-done), yet their parents may offer then a rifle for Christmas (gun culture & extremes -> very light gun legislation).

Do I even make sense btw ?

[the_gloaming09]

^^ You've raised interesting points here, however, in every developed countries, 3 main elements (parenting, mental health and violence in films/video games) are there too, yet you don't see mass shootings happening a lot (or as many murders, especially using guns, as in the US).

Which makes me think the most important factor here, that actually includes all your elements but explains why it happens in America more than anywhere else, is that it's cultural. There's a culture of extremes and of violence in the US, that you don't see anywhere else. Everywhere, you see parents messing up their kids' education, mental health isn't always treated well, and kids from all around the world now watch the same films and play the same video games. However, you're all right when raising the problem of the media: they go to the extreme, especially in the US. And you have to add to that the gun culture, and the general culture of violence that is still very strong in the US. This explains why kids can't eat Kinder Surprise or some kinds of cheese (because of very strict policies on food cf the extreme thing I was talking about, when something is done in the US, it's not half-done), yet their parents may offer then a rifle for Christmas (gun culture & extremes -> very light gun legislation).

Do I even make sense btw ?

 

Yeah that makes sense, and very good points too. Those topics of mental health, videogames, and parenting are issues around the world which is true, so it really then comes down to the media and how violence is portrayed or seemed as ok.

 

When reporting events for example around the world I constantly see numbers being thrown out of people killed or images of soldiers fighting or whatever. Another issue is the whole "terrorist" mentality of this country. I'm not trying to sound insensitive but people get so upset over this (as they should be of course), but if news breaks out about people being killed around the world, even kids the reaction is so much smaller.

 

Like I found this one story sickening that said that a title saying that 3 "Insurgents" were killed in a drone strike in Pakistan. Do you want to know who these insurgents were? They were kids ages 8, 10 and 12 that were killed as they were collecting dung for their family to use for fuel to heat their home.

 

The point I guess I'm trying to get at is the fact that the mentality of killing should be considered wrong despite where it's coming from.