'27 dead' in Connecticut primary school shooting

[Prospector]

^ "Drone strikes" on Pakistan are a tottaly different issue, that's a war situation, althought it's terrible and disturbing to think there are kids being killed on war zones that's something you can "expect". The thing is that those kids were killed on a peaceful place, inside of a school on a country that has one of the highest HDI in the world. They were not on a violent neighborhood, they weren't doing anything wrong, they were just inside of a school and a random guy came in and shot everyone, that's what schocks everybody.

[Black Rose]

Even if you ban guns, tragedies like this will still happen. The criminals will get their hands on guns or use other weapons.

 

Guns are not the root cause of evil, humans are. A gun is a tool, like a knife.

 

R.I.P. to the dead :(

[Reilly]

Even if you ban guns, tragedies like this will still happen. The criminals will get their hands on guns or use other weapons.

 

Guns are not the root cause of evil, humans are. A gun is a tool, like a knife.

 

I keep seeing this attitude in people a lot lately and it's so infuriating. First off, you think a 20 year old kid with social problems living in a small town would've attained an assault rifle without there being one openly available in his house? What was he going to do, drop by the ghetto and pick up a glock off some homies?

 

But that's not what's infuriating, it's that you (And many others, to be fair) are giving off this vibe that since there's nothing we can do to stop ALL violence occurring, we may as well not even bother worrying about reducing it. On top of that you're just stating the obvious, adding nothing and acting as if it's profound.

[Violet]

Someone mentionned the guy who attacked 22 kids in China, saying it was the same. It was not. Because no one was killed, because it takes way longueur to actually really hurt someone with a knife. Of course a kids were hurt, of course they're traumatised ; but did parents lose their babies 10 days before Christmas ? No. The violence is the same, but the impact isn't.

 

I didn't say it was the same. I said it was similar, and it is. A guy came into a school and attacked children. Different details, yes, but same concept.

 

I don't understand the whole "You can't do as much damage with knives" argument. It's almost like you guys are implying that injuring/killing people with knives isn't as bad as injuring/killing people with guns, which isn't true at all. In the hands of the wrong people, guns and knives serve the same twisted, demonic purpose.

[wabbit]

Very unlikely source, but Marlyn Manson had posted his thoughts in RollingStone after he was in the spotlight for 'influencing' the Columbine killers. Even though that was in 1999, some of his comments still ring true. Some of it is controversial, but worth a read.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/columbine-whose-fault-is-it-19990624

 

When it comes down to who's to blame for the high school murders in Littleton, Colorado, throw a rock and you'll hit someone who's guilty. We're the people who sit back and tolerate children owning guns, and we're the ones who tune in and watch the up-to-the-minute details of what they do with them. I think it's terrible when anyone dies, especially if it is someone you know and love. But what is more offensive is that when these tragedies happen, most people don't really care any more than they Would about the season finale of Friends or The Real World. I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt.

[Coeurli]

I keep seeing this attitude in people a lot lately and it's so infuriating. First off, you think a 20 year old kid with social problems living in a small town would've attained an assault rifle without there being one openly available in his house? What was he going to do, drop by the ghetto and pick up a glock off some homies?

 

But that's not what's infuriating, it's that you (And many others, to be fair) are giving off this vibe that since there's nothing we can do to stop ALL violence occurring, we may as well not even bother worrying about reducing it. On top of that you're just stating the obvious, adding nothing and acting as if it's profound.

THIS!!!!

[Jack Bauer]

Even if you ban guns, tragedies like this will still happen. The criminals will get their hands on guns or use other weapons.

 

Guns are not the root cause of evil, humans are. A gun is a tool, like a knife.

 

R.I.P. to the dead :(

 

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

no matter what anyone says, it's the truth.

[James.]

I don't understand the whole "You can't do as much damage with knives" argument. It's almost like you guys are implying that injuring/killing people with knives isn't as bad as injuring/killing people with guns, which isn't true at all. In the hands of the wrong people, guns and knives serve the same twisted, demonic purpose.

 

Guns are the weapons of choice for these sick, twisted people who do such things. I know knives can be just as deadly as guns in the wrong hands, but you definitely hear more stories about someone killing a bunch of people with a gun than someone using a knife to cause the same amount of damage. I don't claim to be an expert on criminal or psychopathic behaviour, but if I was a crazy who wanted to kill a load of people I'd go for a gun rather than a knife. (I hope that didn't sound too messed up :uhoh:)

Also the fact that gun massacres get much more media attention than knife massacres (from what I've seen), makes them seem like more of an attractive option for some sick bastard who wants attention.

This is why everyone's saying guns should be controlled rather than knifes.

[Reilly]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

no matter what anyone says, it's the truth.

 

Of course it's the truth, I never disputed that violence will inevitably happen (How could that possibly be un-true?) and it's so blatantly obvious you'd wonder why anyone would say it in the first place. The point I took from the post was "People will still get guns and use them, so we're helpless from doing anything about it" which is what I found infuriating. Of course people are going to find guns somehow and use them in future regardless the legal availability, what an utterly pointless statement, I just find that attitude to be shelving the idea of actually discussing it and more importantly reducing the amount of cases.

 

This is the same logic: regardless of our quest to find peace, there will always be another war, so lets not worry about being diplomatic and keeping such conflicts from happening as little as possible, because its meaningless as war will happen somewhere anyway, instead let's just watch the fireworks.

[Spider-Man]

Take a look at this. This makes me lose respect for some Americans. I'll bet some people wonder why Americans can be so stupid.

 

http://deadspin.com/5968935/take-that-******-off-the-tv-we-wanna-watch-football-idiots-respond-to-nbc-pre+empting-sunday-night-football

[Lauriane]

I didn't say it was the same. I said it was similar, and it is. A guy came into a school and attacked children. Different details, yes, but same concept.

 

I don't understand the whole "You can't do as much damage with knives" argument. It's almost like you guys are implying that injuring/killing people with knives isn't as bad as injuring/killing people with guns, which isn't true at all. In the hands of the wrong people, guns and knives serve the same twisted, demonic purpose.

 

No I wasn't thinking this, death is still death in the end. My point in fact is that it's so much easier to stop someone using a knife than a gun. How long does it take to kill 28 people with a gun ? 3 minutes ? How long does it take to kill 28 people with a knife ? I don't have a number, but it clearly wouldn't be that short.

 

In fact what I meant to say is that the USA are making it way too easier to actually get a gun. It's like one morning a psychopath thinking "Ho hey, what about killing all the people in the street today ?". He has one thing to do : go down the street to the shop, get himself a gun and do whatever he wants. Whereas if they were laws monitoring the whold gunhold thing, he wouldn't get one as easily : he would have to go through a few classes and appointments.

Of course it won't solve everything, because you can't control everything nor everybody. But my point is that you can at least try to control everything. And it works very well in most countries ; I'm sorry but the USA really is the only country where we hear of all these horrific stuff so often.

[nvdmm]

terrible tragedy and i feel for the parents and survivors and those children should have never been killed. unfortunately guns seem very much an integrated part of the american culture and for new laws to be effective entire generations' mindsets have to be changed.

(but lets not forget, americans are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children all around the world. be it the middle east, south america or southeast asia etc etc etc. you inflict pain and suffering upon others, and misery will be inflicted upon you in one form or another. its funny people are still asking why 9/11 happened!! although I'm completely against violence and aggression and have never held a weapon in my life so don't think I'm a sadist! i just believe god takes care of things in interesting ways)

[para-para-parrotdies]

In fact what I meant to say is that the USA are making it way too easier to actually get a gun. It's like one morning a psychopath thinking "Ho hey, what about killing all the people in the street today ?". He has one thing to do : go down the street to the shop, get himself a gun and do whatever he wants. Whereas if they were laws monitoring the whold gunhold thing, he wouldn't get one as easily : he would have to go through a few classes and appointments.

 

Except there are.

[Coeurli]

^But not enough, and not everywhere (from what I remember from this map posted a few posts ago?).

Guns are the weapons of choice for these sick, twisted people who do such things. I know knives can be just as deadly as guns in the wrong hands, but you definitely hear more stories about someone killing a bunch of people with a gun than someone using a knife to cause the same amount of damage. I don't claim to be an expert on criminal or psychopathic behaviour, but if I was a crazy who wanted to kill a load of people I'd go for a gun rather than a knife. (I hope that didn't sound too messed up :uhoh:)

Also the fact that gun massacres get much more media attention than knife massacres (from what I've seen), makes them seem like more of an attractive option for some sick bastard who wants attention.

This is why everyone's saying guns should be controlled rather than knifes.

Also, with a gun, especially a semi-automatic, you can end up killing much more people than you had planned in the first place (because everything goes so fast). As it takes much more strength and time (I guess) to kill several people with knifes, it is less likely to happen.

terrible tragedy and i feel for the parents and survivors and those children should have never been killed. unfortunately guns seem very much an integrated part of the american culture and for new laws to be effective entire generations' mindsets have to be changed.

I totally agree :nod:

[Nikola]

"314 soldiers died in Iraq

509 died in Chicago"

 

Amurika needs to give up on its precious guns

now or never

[NumbersGirl]

Interesting side note... gun sales skyrocketed this weekend. A local news story noted that in particular, the assault rifle (AR) style is selling out, because people currently with licenses are afraid that AR style will soon be banned (so people are snatching them up while they have the chance).

[Coeurli]

Ugh.

[busybeeburns]

Assault rifles are for swat teams. What any domestic household or civilian needs with a burst-capable weapon is beyond me.

[wabbit]

Gun violence has just become so common now. Mass murders just brings it back up into the collective consciousness.

 

Around 50 people die in Chicago every weekend from gun violence (link). "In the twenty-four hour period since the shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, ten people were shot in the city of Chicago. Another weekend. Another massacre on the streets of the Windy City."

[Coeurli]

^Sad truth :(

Assault rifles are for swat teams. What any domestic household or civilian needs with a burst-capable weapon is beyond me.

Same here :|

[Violet]

I'm sorry but the USA really is the only country where we hear of all these horrific stuff so often.

 

And that's exactly why the way the media addresses stuff like this should be changed. The news here doesn't concentrate on the thousands of American citizens who do good things; they concentrate on the one sick, twisted person who did something horrendously wrong. When a news station like HLN finds someone doing a good deed, they broadcast it in a little 1-2 minute segment, and that's it. People see it on TV, they go "Oh, that's nice," and then they forget about it. On the other hand, when you hear about a person like Adam Lanza doing something horrific, the news covers it for days and doesn't talk about much else. In turn, everyone will remember him for doing the bad thing. I think that's a huge crux of the argument people have made about the media. You hear all the bad stuff happening in this country because people somehow think bad things happening is way more newsworthy than good things, and that's definitely not how things should be.

 

I apologize for going slightly off-tangent to your point (as I know that's not the point you were making at all), but that's what that statement made me think of.

[Coeurli]

^But media isn't the only thing that's different from other countries (and media in several countries are actually more and more like this, even in France for instance). The other main element that's different is gun control. It can't not be related at all.

[NumbersGirl]

I'm not particularly knowledgaeble of all the rules/regulations regarding gun ownership, but today somebody pointed out to me that basically anybody can buy ammo. You can't shoot a gun without ammo; so it seems a bit silly that while a license is required to purchase a gun, you don't need a license to purchase the ammo, i.e., the other piece of the deadly puzzle.

 

Maybe requiring a license to purchase ammo is something that should be considered. If there were a database of sorts for licensed ammo purchases, red flags would go up when someone is essentially stockpiling ammo (even the purchases are from different sources).

[shipoffools]

I can't imagine what the families are going through. This whole thing is just so horrific and sad.

 

We need an assault weapon ban, at the very least. I still don't understand our nation's obsession with guns.

[Technicolour TX]

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

 

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

 

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

 

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed

people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

 

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

 

Internet hoax according to Morgan himself:

 

 

 

LOS ANGELES (TheWrap.com) - Actor Morgan Freeman said on Sunday that he did not issue a statement blaming the media for sensationalizing the Newtown School shootings that left 20 children and several adults dead.

 

The award-winning actor added that he never made or posted the statement that became a Facebook and Internet sensation, saying it was a hoax.

 

His publicist Stan Rosenfield told TheWrap that the actor's camp was trying to determine the origin of the hoax statement.

 

"It's because of the way the media reports it," the phony statement read in part. "Turn on the news and see how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single 'victim' of Columbine?

 

"Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basement see the news and want to top it by doing something worse and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster instead of a sad nobody."

 

The hoax statement also takes CNN to task over its use of the phrase "body count" in relation to the Newtown shootings and said the news coverage would incite more killings.