Actually they had better send Will. Chris's cheesy sarcastic humor has gotten him loads of trouble before

 

:laugh3: Maybe, but Chris is a very good communicator and is great at being open and sincere. I don't think a court will convict them (but goofier things have happened). They should just acknowledge the similarities and state that they are unintentional. If they have never heard the song, end of story. Even if they had heard the song, it is impossible to catalogue every tune one hears. Therefore, any similarities are completely unintentional (a subconscious INFLUENCE). Either way, the songs are very distinct and separate. I remember Nirvana stating that they were reluctant to release "Smells Like Teen Spirit" because they felt like it was a Pixies rip off. Influences are one thing, stealing is another matter. I think Coldplay should just be honest and attack this straight on.

I will cede to you that the Talk argument shows a history of crediting other artists IF, and only if, you will agree that Chris Martin has gone on record numerous times as claiming that Coldplay openly takes from other bands (which, besides the Talk example, go unaccredited). Again, we are talking about the blurry line between inspiration and plagiarism. Even if Chris was joking, his lines about plagiarism will come up if this goes to trial. THAT is how the court system works.

 

The thing with Talk, was he heard the riff in the Kraftwerk song, and he wanted to use it in a rock song. He used it as inspiration. I will agree that Chris does make comments that he shouldn't, jokingly, about where they get material. But the facts of the matter are that they listen to various types of music for inspiration. That's why they got Brian Eno to produce this album. He introduced them to types of music they have never heard before. These kinds of things influence instrumentation, time signatures, etc... but they have never stolen an exact copy of somebody elses riff, or one that sounds remarkably similar. IF you think so, than find me one. And no, Satriani's doesn't count. I understand all of your points completely, but there is no way this is holding up in courts. They aren't going to take sarcastic comments and try to make them hold up as hard evidence. i think the track record of accrediting artists when needed outweighs that heavily.

^ lol I can see the prosecution bringing videos of coldplay's jools holland interview's into the court as evidence, while Chris sits there slackjawed with an "oh, come on!" expression. :D

 

Reminds me of "My cousin Vinny" when the sheriff testifies about the accused kid saying "I shot the clerk!" over and over...

haha exactly. classic movie.

Me too!

Chris was joking about it at that Yahoo concert, long before the suit was formally filed.

 

 

:laugh3: Maybe, but Chris is a very good communicator and is great at being open and sincere.

:laugh3: No.

 

Sincere yes, good communicator? Just plain no.

 

 

Honestly, the band probably doesn't have much say in how this all plays out. Yes it's their song, but it's also a massive hit for their label, and therefore one of the two big pieces of leverage EMI have had against their creditors this year. (The other being the one with the girls and the kissing...) The company can't afford to lose this- it could destroy them.

 

Therefore chances are great big scary corporate lawyers took over the whole case the moment that it became serious and are now running the show. Speaking in public about a lawsuit is often a no-no because anything can be used against them later.

"I felt like a dagger went right through my heart. It hurt so much,"

 

"I did everything I could to avoid a court case with this situation. But Coldplay didn't want to talk about it. They just wanted this whole thing to go away. Maybe they figured this little guitar player guy will leave them alone after a while, I don't know. "

 

Cry me a freakin river! I can't believe how hard he's trying to play the victim role. Boohoo, those big mean coldplay guys picked on me and hurt my feelings! I'm just a poor little guitar player guy they pushed down and laughed at. I didn't wanna do this, they made me!

 

Sorry if I'm biased and insensitive, but I can't believe anyone would be so paranoid and egocentric to react that dramatically over a few similar notes in completely different songs.

 

Well, anyone that files a lawsuit is a victim and that is why they are filing a lawsuit. However, some over exaggerate the victim part. I'm not saying this guy is but there are people who do go over board with the victim part.

 

I will say that some of the wording used in the article is interesting to say the least. Not to say that he actually worded that way because we all know that reporters can change or add things to someone's comment. But some of the wording is very interesting so much so that it makes a reader feel sorry.

 

Speaking in public about a lawsuit is often a no-no because anything can be used against them later.

 

Yes, and that is why I feel Coldplay is doing the right thing by not openly saying anything. I know some folks want Coldplay to say something about this but I don't because that is not how this matter should be handled. This matter should stay behind closed doors and not in the magazines or newspapers. I say...take the high road and Coldplay are currently doing just that which could be to their advantage.

I think Chris is prouder of VLV than any other song he's done.

 

He's probably choked about this too inside.

 

Maybe he should go cry to the press too.

 

Except they'd probably twist it into him sounded liek a pretentious twat.

They wouldn't have to twist too hard........

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGGFJLpbu4]YouTube - Did Coldplay copy Joe Satriani? Let's Do the Music Theory...[/ame]

Chromeboy...since you fail to respond to the ones in here who might have musical knowledge at or greater than yours...Ill just post again what you didn't respond to last time.

 

Chord progressions and diatonic theory aside, sharing the same tempo and having 4-5 notes sequentually in a verse melody does not constitute as plagerism. If it does then god help us bands who make any music, it will probably be compared to something and our hard work considered to be a "rip off". Just the other day my bass player sat down on my keyboard and told me he had an awesome song idea. He played it for me with a strings voice and I said dude...yeah...that's awesome...its pretty much exactly like the Enya song "sail away". He agreed after listening, but never ever had any INTENT to copy oar mimic the song.

 

This lawsuit is in poor taste, and will probably do nothing more than discourage young talent from creating music.

And im sure Coldplay could find some balding guitar teacher with huge glasses to point out how it really isn't similar at all...big deal I don't give this guy any credit and less credit go to these people who waste there time making these youtube videos all the time.

The thing with Talk, was he heard the riff in the Kraftwerk song, and he wanted to use it in a rock song. He used it as inspiration. I will agree that Chris does make comments that he shouldn't, jokingly, about where they get material. But the facts of the matter are that they listen to various types of music for inspiration. That's why they got Brian Eno to produce this album. He introduced them to types of music they have never heard before. These kinds of things influence instrumentation, time signatures, etc... but they have never stolen an exact copy of somebody elses riff, or one that sounds remarkably similar. IF you think so, than find me one. And no, Satriani's doesn't count. I understand all of your points completely, but there is no way this is holding up in courts. They aren't going to take sarcastic comments and try to make them hold up as hard evidence. i think the track record of accrediting artists when needed outweighs that heavily.

 

I can not argue with this. But the line between plagiarism and inspiration is not exactly black and white. The key is to be influenced, but not "overly influenced." Admittedly, this is a fine line to walk. Some would argue that it does not matter whether or not you steal an exact riff from someone if the song is "overly influenced" by another band's music. How do you define "overly influenced?" I don't pretend to know. To be honest, I think Coldplay walks this line very closely without going over it (which is fine by me). I think other people would disagree and, consequently, this becomes a source of criticism directed toward Coldplay (for example, how many times have Coldplay fans argued with Radiohead fans over this very issue). So did Coldplay, in their search for inspiration, become overly influenced by the Satriani song as to cross this ambiguous line for the first time...I don't know. Only Chris Martin can answer this question, which is why I am anxiously awaiting his comments.

"Only Chris Martin can answer this question, which is why I am anxiously awaiting his comments."

 

He probably won't comment though. Some agreement will be reached and they will go their seperate ways. or lets hope so for the sake of music.

Ok. This guy hasn't said anything more than we have. The songs have the same chord progression (a common one) have the same tempo (a common rock tempo), and the same meter (the most common meter in all of music). You could fit hundreds of tunes into that category. This guys is saying that chord progression and meter will outweigh the melody. Haha. Ok maybe that would be true if Coldplay was a guitar player that played the riff twice and than soloed the rest of the song... But Melody MAKES the song. chord progression and rythm are just some f the foundations.

 

Also, i went to the website listed in that video, and it gives a link to that guys Myspace.... and he has Joe Satriani listed as one of his favorite acts and influences... SO he's obviously trying to influence public opinion to favor his artist.

 

This is nothing new.

All this dude wants is money now. I doubt that the people representing the boys will even care about this and they'll probably just give him some money out of court - they have nothing to lose really since this is just bad PR on Joe's side, not Coldplay's. They won't have time for this...

Chromeboy...since you fail to respond to the ones in here who might have musical knowledge at or greater than yours...Ill just post again what you didn't respond to last time.

 

Chord progressions and diatonic theory aside, sharing the same tempo and having 4-5 notes sequentually in a verse melody does not constitute as plagerism. If it does then god help us bands who make any music, it will probably be compared to something and our hard work considered to be a "rip off". Just the other day my bass player sat down on my keyboard and told me he had an awesome song idea. He played it for me with a strings voice and I said dude...yeah...that's awesome...its pretty much exactly like the Enya song "sail away". He agreed after listening, but never ever had any INTENT to copy oar mimic the song.

 

This lawsuit is in poor taste, and will probably do nothing more than discourage young talent from creating music.

Bearcat,

 

You make interesting points and I respect your right to express them. However, what is bumming me out is that everyone on this blog keeps saying that the 2 songs are not similiar..... and keep calling "bullshit!"..... The simple fact is, the songs are alot alike and sound the same. Really only 4 lads know the truth.

 

If they are vindicated in the end, great.

 

"Chord progressions and diatonic theory aside"...........??? how can you put that aside?

 

"sharing the same tempo and having 4-5 notes sequentually in a verse melody does not constitute as plagerism"..... LOL! Then what does????

 

Believe me when I tell you that I understand your faithfulness to the band and the WANTING to believe that they are innocent.... I salute your tenacity, but no one in this blog can say wheather they did it........ or didn't.

 

As a Joe fan, I don't like this anymore that you all do.

I will never be able to say for sure whether they did it or not...however as a MUSICIAN I know that this is happens far to easy.

 

My point about "Diatonic theory" is that I think Coldplay probably doesnt even understand that concept, this guy has studied guitar for 25 years he knows ins and outs better than any of us will. So like droids we shake our heads up and down yes when he really isn't making that great of points. He didn't even point out the part of the song that Joe is actually upset about!

 

Like i said before the tempo is close, but it isn't the same when the mash up is played the satriani song pulls away from the VLV progression. Do you write music Chromeboy? If you do where do you get you "influences"? I do not see why this has to come down so hard on Coldplay either, their are musicians who do a lot worse and get away with it.

 

If 4-5 consective notes makes plagerism than god help us. I agree the riff sounds similar which is why I say they should just pay him to go away, but I honestly think Chris's ideas were his own, probably influenced by everything BUT Joe Satriani

oh and...straight from that guys Youtube video he posted this addendum to the video....

 

Sorry folks... I made this video far too quickly and I now realize that Joe Satriani is suing Coldplay for their song's Chorus - for swiping his 2005 song's; melody, harmony & rhythm.

 

Go listen to the Mash-Up of both pieces pitch modified to the same key center:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8HDUi[/ame]...

 

Certain essential elements are what all music is based on. These elements establish the essence of a musical composition - making individual songs unique - melody, harmony, rhythm, (and to a lesser degree dynamics).

 

This however is not what a Court of Law considers in music plagiarism trials. Satriani will more than likely face tough challenges to win his case. The 2008 Coldplay song released to the public is certainly quite a match to Satriani's piece. However, a court trial for music plagiarism is extremely complex. First, the plaintiff must show that the defendant actually, physically copied the plaintiffs work. Second,

the plaintiff must show that such copying was improper because it was of elements under copyright protection.

 

This is quite unlike the case in 1997 when the Rolling Stones were informed, (at a pre-launch party by Keith Richard's son nonetheless), they had unintentionally copied KD Lang's 1992 song, "Constant Craving," with their tune, "Anybody Seen My Baby." The Stones immediately contacted Lang and worked out a retroactive song credit. Lang agreed on song publishing royalties with the Stones since the songs were sharing the agreed 3 primary elements of musical composition.

 

Ouside of court, this argument/lawsuit will probably all boil down to who you are a fan of. I would expect Coldplay fans might not think that the songs are too similar. And Satriani fans, (being made up of primarily guitarists & musicians), are going to be fairly pissed off that the tempo, meter, chorus melody and the bulk of the chord changes of the Coldplay song are pretty much exactly the same as the chorus of a Satriani tune composed three years ago.

 

Don't get mad at me if this video upsets you. (Coldplay fans) I've not made a 100% decision that Coldplay copied anyone,

Bear,

 

Must be a bad link. nothing happens when I click on the YouTube thumb

Bear,

 

Must be a bad link. nothing happens when I click on the YouTube thumb

 

yeah sorry I didn't actually mean for the video to get in there....

 

Everything thats said from "sorry guys"... on was written as an addendum to the video he posted. He said it got so bad he had to disable the comments as well.

when will we start hearing more about this?

How about *right now*. When will it actually go to trial? Who knows. It could turn out to be extremely drawn out.

Coldplay talked a lot about how many versions of VLV they went through before deciding on the one that eventual became the hit. I wonder if demos of the earlier versions might shed some light on the musical process.

 

Edit: One thing about that article above bothers me. Satriani elicits sympathy by talking about how he feels stripped of all the work/dedication/emotion/time/energy/etc. that went into the song, but he completely misses the point that if Coldplay did NOT plagiarize (and just happened to follow a rather simple song progression), he's doing the same thing to them.

if it makes any of you feel better, I just spent the last hour reading comments from members at ultimate-guitar.com, who I almost surely thought would rip Coldplay to shreds, however this was not the case. I would say 75% of the members agreed that it is a huge stretch and "if he is going to do this, all musicians should just sue everyone". A number of members even said they lost a lot of respect for Joe Satriani because of this. So just know, a lot people are siding with Coldplay, or at least think its wrong to sue.

if it makes any of you feel better, I just spent the last hour reading comments from members at ultimate-guitar.com, who I almost surely thought would rip Coldplay to shreds, however this was not the case. I would say 75% of the members agreed that it is a huge stretch and "if he is going to do this, all musicians should just sue everyone". A number of members even said they lost a lot of respect for Joe Satriani because of this. So just know, a lot people are siding with Coldplay, or at least think its wrong to sue.

 

This will be a polarizing issue, no doubt. I especially agree with the "if he is going to do this, all musicians should just sue everyone" point. I think Satriani is just opening up a can of worms, and I still think the timing was especially poor.

I was just reading on a guitar forum about this song having a similar riff to the others.It starts at :35.Its from 2001

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G57CgtX-BsI]YouTube - ENANITOS VERDES - FRANCES LIMON[/ame]

As previously reported on MusicRadar, Joe Satriani is suing Coldplay, claiming the UK band's Grammy-nominated song Viva La Vida uses one of his melodies.

 

In court papers filed on 4 December 2008, Satriani's legal team alleges Viva La Vida, the title track of Coldplay's current album, copies "substantial original portions" of his song If I Could Fly.

 

Satriani's song was included on his 2004 album Is There Love In Space?

 

Speaking exclusively to MusicRadar on 6 December, Joe Satriani recalls the exact emotion he felt when he first heard Coldplay's Viva La Vida.

 

"The second I heard, I knew..."

 

"I felt like a dagger went right through my heart. It hurt so much," Satriani says. "The second I heard it, I knew it was [my own] If I Could Fly."

 

As it turned out, Satriani wasn't the only one who noticed the similarity between If I Could Fly and Viva La Vida.

 

"Almost immediately, from the minute their song came out, my e-mail box flooded with people going, 'Have you heard this song by Coldplay? They ripped you off man.' I mean, I couldn't tell you how many e-mails I received.

 

"Everybody noticed the similarities between the songs. It's pretty obvious. It's as simple as that - when you listen to a song and you say, 'Wow, that's a real rip-off.'"

What makes the situation especially painful for Satriani is that If I Could Fly isn't just any song. It's a composition he'd been laboring over for well over 10 years before he recorded it.

 

"I started writing it on the Flying In A Blue Dream tour back in 1988. But because of the way I write, sometimes songs take a while, as this one did. In 2003 I started demoing it in earnest. I played it on the acoustic guitar on a demo so I could sing the melody, then I demoed it on electric to get the sound. And the performance turned out to be so spontaneous, so right and so emotional, that it wound up being a keeper."

 

Joe Satriani is suing Coldplay, alleging Viva La Vida uses his melody from If I Could Fly

 

Satriani feels "really hurt"

 

Since If I Could Fly came out in 2004, Satriani has been gratified by the reaction it's received from his fans, many of whom have called it one of his most captivating songs.

 

"That was the intent all along," he says. "It was a love letter to my wife, Rubina – a simple, direct expression of feeling.

 

"That's what really hurts about this whole thing. That I spent so long writing the song, thinking about it, loving it, nursing it, and then finally recording it and standing on stages the world over playing it - and then somebody comes along and plays the exact same song and calls it their own."

 

Since it was announced on 4 December 2008 that Satriani is suing Coldplay for alleged plagiarism, seeking a jury trial and "any and all profits" connected to Viva La Vida, his life has been turned upside down.

 

"This has been the weirdest thing I've ever been involved in," he says. "The media attention has been bizarre and surreal. I really can't explain how I've felt over the past day or two."

 

"I did everything I could to avoid a court case"

 

Satriani stresses that his motives are ruled by artistic purity and an overriding sense of right and wrong.

 

"Everybody's assumes I'm trying to go after these guys in Coldplay, as if I'm doing this with malice," he says "That's the furthest thing from my mind. I'm just doing what I need to do as an artist, to protect what's mine, to protect those feelings I put down in song.

 

"I did everything I could to avoid a court case with this situation. But Coldplay didn't want to talk about it. They just wanted this whole thing to go away. Maybe they figured this little guitar player guy will leave them alone after a while, I don't know.

"But we're talking about a piece of art that I created, and that's something I feel is important. I think everybody should feel that way."

 

And now, Satriani's team will ask a jury to decide.

 

I'm shocked he's come out and said all this, surely his legal counsel would have advised him talking about the case isn't wise. Especially when he's doing it in such a 'woe is me' way. I mean come on! "I was really hurt"?!

 

"I did everything I could to avoid a court case with this situation. But Coldplay didn't want to talk about it. They just wanted this whole thing to go away. Maybe they figured this little guitar player guy will leave them alone after a while, I don't know.

"But we're talking about a piece of art that I created, and that's something I feel is important. I think everybody should feel that way."

 

Maybe they didn't want to talk about it because they don't feel they've done anything wrong.

 

He's very clever in the way he's worded this. Saying things like "I was hurt" and a "dagger through my heart" paints the picture of just a small, humble guitarist making music for his wife, whilst some huge band come along, break into his house and steal the music from under the pillow in which he sleeps.

 

Suing the day after the Grammy noms are announced was low, but this is ridiculous. He's not doing himself any favours and hasn't convinced me in the slightest that he's done it this way because he had to. There's malice there. No doubt born from feeling wronged, but there's way to do things. And this isn't it.

What does the 40 year old virgin have to do with Coldplay? They aren't Asia, you know. :laugh3:

 

Have you seen that movie? It seems like you haven't.