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The Muse Thread - Hate This & I'll Hate You


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All of their albums are at the same level. There is no reason to put one above another.

 

Um, really? You can honestly say The Resistance is on the same par with Abso and OoS? Seriously?

 

Well, apparently there is reason for some of us otherwise we wouldn't do it, eh? :thinking:

 

Preach it.

 

 

My list would have to go:

 

OoS > Showbiz & Abso > BHaR > TR > T2L

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I can't make my opinion until I hear the songs in live.

Some songs can be better with Matt's riffs in live, hum I hope!

For the moment, my 1st impression is that I don't like the album especially Madness (mamamama...), Survival (too much choral), unsustainable, Animals (so boring, so repetitive: animals animals...) and Panic Station (what's was that Matt, seriously!). For me, there so much choral on this album.

 

I'm a fan since 1999. Showbiz is my favorite album, and after that, OOS and I can't recognize Muse on T2L (except Matt's voice).

 

I can't wait to see them tomorrow to make my opinion about their songs because it might be different between the studio version and live version.

 

Like Coldplay with MX: I don't like HLH and CB before hearing these songs in live so let's hope!

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Damn, Violet, you should've just posted "my opinion is everything that isn't Michael's". :P Kidding, good write-up. I forgot to post here that "Isolated System" feels the middle of an epic track that's sorely lacking a Part 3.

 

Anyway, I've decided I'm ranking this below The Resistance. Higher highs but lower lows. The Resistance had about 2 tracks I loved, 2 tracks I hated, and lots of middle-of-the-road material otherwise. Whereas here, it's a lot of love and a lot of hatred with very little to compensate in the middle. (though the fact that it actually has songs I enjoy means this has no business being compared to MX. Not unless it was 12 tracks in the style of "Madness" would it be that awful.)

 

Abso > OoS > BH&R > Showbiz > Resistance > 2nd Law

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And I'd probably agree with you after listening to it a few times. The low points of MX are horrendously low; whereas for T2L, the lows are tolerable.

 

But yeah, I'd go with it being their worst too. I find the lows on T2L lower than TR-- which I thought at the beginning.

 

Anyway, I've decided I'm ranking this below The Resistance. Higher highs but lower lows. The Resistance had about 2 tracks I loved, 2 tracks I hated, and lots of middle-of-the-road material otherwise. Whereas here, it's a lot of love and a lot of hatred with very little to compensate in the middle. (though the fact that it actually has songs I enjoy means this has no business being compared to MX. Not unless it was 12 tracks in the style of "Madness" would it be that awful.)

 

Oh I thought I had totally heard that answer before somewhere.

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I agree with a lot you said, Vi! Especially about Madness. I really enjoy the last minute of it when it doesn't sound so mamamamama ... the end kinda destroys it again though, haha.

 

I actually really love Panic Station though. :P I understand why people are comparing it to other songs but I still like it, haha.

 

I totally agree about Survival too. I know it's so over the top, but I still really enjoy it, especially the guitars. So I won't be the one making fun of you, I'll join you and take all the jokes with you. :P

 

And I like Explorers too. It is so cheesy though. I can totally see someone kneeling down in front of their love, putting on their best puppy-eyes-look and going all "Fwee me, fwee me, fwee fwom this ring?" and the woman goes "Sure thing, fwee me and I'll fwee you." Oh. my. the. adorableness. :blush:

Okay, that was random, sorry.

matt.gif

 

But to be honest, Save Me doesn't work at all for me. The song overall feels pretty bland to me and even the fact that Chris sings it can't save it for me.

 

 

I'm too lazy right now to type a proper review. I feel like my English is still asleep. :escaping:

 

Oh, you mean the end bit when it just kinda dies out? Yeah, I can see why you feel that way.

 

"Panic Station"...I don't know. Matt just sounds like he's trying too hard.

 

I'm so glad someone else likes "Survival," though. It makes me feel less like a fool.

 

See, lyrics is something I haven't really been abe to take into much consideration yet. I don't know the songs that well, and if I'm learning the lyrics, I like to have them in front of me. Maybe I'll gain some appreciation for "Explorers" when I become more acquainted with it that way...

 

All of their albums are at the same level. There is no reason to put one above another.

 

I don't mean any disrespect to you (as your opinion is as valid as anyone else's here), but I honestly don't see how you can come to that conclusion. Anyway, as Imke said, we do have our reasons. I used my review to precisely explain why I felt like T2L was subpar to everything else.

 

Damn, Violet, you should've just posted "my opinion is everything that isn't Michael's". :P Kidding, good write-up. I forgot to post here that "Isolated System" feels the middle of an epic track that's sorely lacking a Part 3.

 

Anyway, I've decided I'm ranking this below The Resistance. Higher highs but lower lows. The Resistance had about 2 tracks I loved, 2 tracks I hated, and lots of middle-of-the-road material otherwise. Whereas here, it's a lot of love and a lot of hatred with very little to compensate in the middle. (though the fact that it actually has songs I enjoy means this has no business being compared to MX. Not unless it was 12 tracks in the style of "Madness" would it be that awful.)

 

Abso > OoS > BH&R > Showbiz > Resistance > 2nd Law

 

But it wasn't all against what you were saying. I told you I'd join your "Big Freeze" fan club. :tongue:

 

Now that you mention it, though, three tracks for "The 2nd Law" might have made more sense. We'll never know.

 

Since everyone else is ranking albums now, here's more or less where I stand on that.

 

Abso > OoS > TR = BHAR > Showbiz > T2L

 

I know. Why do I have "Showbiz" ranked so low? I think it's just a bit too raw and unrefined for me. Matt himself admitted that they had absolutely no idea what they were doing when they recorded this album, so I think it's safe to say that. It doesn't help that it has a few songs that I'm not really a fan of. ("Overdue" is the first thing that comes to mind.)

 

Some of you might not think BHAR and TR should be ranked as high as I put them, either. I put them as equals because, honestly, whether I favor one or the other depends on my mood. BHAR was my first Muse album, so I have a special attachment to it. As for TR, well, I just like it. A lot. I don't care if you think that's wrong, because it's all a matter of taste, anyway. Michael thinks it's cheesy. Well, it is, but I happen to love cheese.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents, for what it's worth.

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But it wasn't all against what you were saying. I told you I'd join your "Big Freeze" fan club. :tongue:

 

I'm totally part of this fan club too. It's one of my favourites off T2L. WE NEED T-SHIRTS

 

But I will stan over in a corner for Panic Station because as ridiculous as it is, I want to have love children with it :dazzled:

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Why does everyone dislike The Resistance so much, out of curiosity? :sad:

 

It treads a lot of the same water the band have tread before, for example, Guiding Light is a rip off of their own song, Invincible and Unnatural Selection takes the chord sequence of New Born. The songs that are exploring new ground, such as Unidisclosed Desires, Eurasia and Resistance just aren't exciting, well-written songs, like Stockholm Syndrome, Hysteria or Citizen Erased.

 

On top of this, there are eight songs, and a symphony. The symphony requires your full attention, and it's not really designed for repeated plays. So that's eight tracks that you can stick on your iPod and listen to over and over, alongside the likes of Plug In Baby or Supermassive Black Hole.

 

Only these tracks you'll tire of quicker, because you know, they've done them before.

 

(Just my opinion. I loved it when it came out, I find it dull and insipid now.)

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Why does everyone dislike The Resistance so much, out of curiosity? :sad:

 

I really liked when I got it as a Christmas present, but time made me realize it's not really that great. The first 4 tracks are good, but the rest seems a bit overblown and unispired for me, specially Guiding Light. It's not a bad album, but not good either for me. The 2nd Law is definitely better.

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It treads a lot of the same water the band have tread before, for example, Guiding Light is a rip off of their own song, Invincible and Unnatural Selection takes the chord sequence of New Born. The songs that are exploring new ground, such as Unidisclosed Desires, Eurasia and Resistance just aren't exciting, well-written songs, like Stockholm Syndrome, Hysteria or Citizen Erased.

 

On top of this, there are eight songs, and a symphony. The symphony requires your full attention, and it's not really designed for repeated plays. So that's eight tracks that you can stick on your iPod and listen to over and over, alongside the likes of Plug In Baby or Supermassive Black Hole.

 

Only these tracks you'll tire of quicker, because you know, they've done them before.

 

(Just my opinion. I loved it when it came out, I find it dull and insipid now.)

 

I'm not trying to pick at you or anything, but I wanted to talk about a few things you said.

 

1. I don't understand how "Guiding Light" is an "Invincible" ripoff. Yes, there are similarities, but that doesn't make one a ripoff of the other. At any rate, the general Muser consensus is that "Guiding Light" is a dud on TR (which I agree with), and if Muse wanted to rip off their own song (not that they would), I think they could do a better job of it than that.

 

2. There are a load of songs that use the same chord sequence as "New Born" and "Unnatural Selection," and not just by Muse. There are only so many chord sequences in the world. A repeat is bound to happen. (And it does. Often. "The Four-Chord Song" proves this.) That in itself does not make the song a ripoff.

 

3. I think all the "Exogenesis" songs function fine on their own. Having said that, "Overture" is a bit neglected when it comes to my plays of it.

 

Speaking of which, as a side note, despite what Muse says, "Exogenesis" isn't a true symphony. That is, not if you go by the technical definition. (And, as a classical musician, I feel like that's something I can't ignore.)

 

Anyway, there's my thoughts on that. I hope you don't take any offense; I know we've had a discussion before that got a bit out of hand because I got a bit too much into it. (I never did say I was sorry about that, by the way. Please accept my apology.)

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Speaking of which, as a side note, despite what Muse says, "Exogenesis" isn't a true symphony. That is, not if you go by the technical definition. (And, as a classical musician, I feel like that's something I can't ignore.)

 

What''s the technical definition of a symphony? I'm just curious :thinking:

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From Wiki:

 

A symphony is an extended musical composition in Western classical music, scored almost always for orchestra. A symphony usually contains at least one movement or episode composed according to the sonata principle. Many symphonies are tonal works in four movements with the first in sonata form, which is often described by music theorists as the structure of a "classical" symphony, although many symphonies by the acknowledged classical masters of the form, Joseph Haydn, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Ludwig van Beethoven do not conform to this model.

 

Since we're talking specifically about a three-movement symphony (and not a four-movement one), here's the bit on that:

 

The "Italian" style of symphony, often used as overture and entr'acte in opera houses, became a standard three-movement form: a fast movement, a slow movement, and another fast movement.

 

All three movements of Muse's "symphony" are around the same tempo (ranging from relatively slow to about medium, depending on what parts you're talking about).

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I'm not trying to pick at you or anything, but I wanted to talk about a few things you said.

 

1. I don't understand how "Guiding Light" is an "Invincible" ripoff. Yes, there are similarities, but that doesn't make one a ripoff of the other. At any rate, the general Muser consensus is that "Guiding Light" is a dud on TR (which I agree with), and if Muse wanted to rip off their own song (not that they would), I think they could do a better job of it than that.

 

2. There are a load of songs that use the same chord sequence as "New Born" and "Unnatural Selection," and not just by Muse. There are only so many chord sequences in the world. A repeat is bound to happen. (And it does. Often. "The Four-Chord Song" proves this.) That in itself does not make the song a ripoff.

 

3. I think all the "Exogenesis" songs function fine on their own. Having said that, "Overture" is a bit neglected when it comes to my plays of it.

 

Speaking of which, as a side note, despite what Muse says, "Exogenesis" isn't a true symphony. That is, not if you go by the technical definition. (And, as a classical musician, I feel like that's something I can't ignore.)

 

Anyway, there's my thoughts on that. I hope you don't take any offense; I know we've had a discussion before that got a bit out of hand because I got a bit too much into it. (I never did say I was sorry about that, by the way. Please accept my apology.)

 

Hey, don't be silly, you don't need to apologise. Water under the bridge, it's cool, don't worry. :kiss:

 

1. Guiding Light might not be a rip-off of Invincible, but it sounds pretty bloody similar to me; bombastic, synthy, stadium-rock, 80s-tinged ballad with ott solo to boot. The thought behind was probably "let's put an Invincible on this record." I can't stand that way of thinking. It's even in the same key.

 

2. To steal four of the same chords, I could understand that. But in Unnatural Selection, they mimic seven consecutive chords from New Born. Em, Am, D, G, C, A, B. Again, they don't even change key to hide it. Or maybe not put it in a racing, guitar-heavy stomp that starts off with a slower keyboard intro? No. They've even given it a similar riff.

 

3. Although I'm aware it's not a proper symphony, I've never listened to the Exogenesis parts separately myself, and I can't speak for those who do. All I know is that the piece was intended as a threesome, so that's how I listen to it. And though I realise the sheer effort and consideration that went into Exogenesis... Eight tracks and a faux-symphony just doesn't seem enough. :\

 

I do sometimes take things too seriously, sorry you were on the brunt of my bluntness before. I love ya really. xx

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Nice to know we're cool, man. :smiley:

 

1. I don't think "Invincible" sounds all that bombastic throughout, and the guitar solo in "Invincible" is heaps better.

 

2. Given that "Unnatural Selection" is only in Em in the very beginning organ bit and stays in Gm for the rest of the song (which is like, 6 minutes), I don't understand how this point is that applicable at all.

 

3. Well, if you view it that way, then why do you listen to separate songs on a record? Albums are put together with the intent that they be listened as a work. (This is particularly true with concept albums.) This is assuming you actually listen to individual songs without going through the album; if you don't, then excuse me for making that assumption.

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Nice to know we're cool, man. :smiley:

 

1. I don't think "Invincible" sounds all that bombastic throughout, and the guitar solo in "Invincible" is heaps better.

 

2. Given that "Unnatural Selection" is only in Em in the very beginning organ bit and stays in Gm for the rest of the song (which is like, 6 minutes), I don't understand how this point is that applicable at all.

 

3. Well, if you view it that way, then why do you listen to separate songs on a record? Albums are put together with the intent that they be listened as a work. (This is particularly true with concept albums.) This is assuming you actually listen to individual songs without going through the album; if you don't, then excuse me for making that assumption.

 

1. It's Muse, lol. We'll agree to disagree, but a solo like that, for me, certainly gives it a pompousness not found in many love songs.

 

2. My mistake. Not be in the same key then, but same seven chords, similar riff, similar chug, keyboard intro, all check. Can't just be me, surely?

 

3. No, I do listen to separate songs. But albums are intended as that, especially these days. Though in the olden days they weren't. They were intended as continuous works, but songs are not named 'Dark Side of the Moon pt10: Eclipse', for example. So it's a funny thing to decipher, but I guess the fact they've labelled them as a symphony - whether that's correct or not - is indicative of the band's intention for it.

 

I get that people may listen to them as separate, but they're three songs grouped so closely on the record, they're all a continuation of the last... it's a bit like if a tv series has a two-part special. Sure it's two episodes, but it's one story. You won't refer to it as "the two about" it'll be "the one about". Do you see where I'm getting with this? I do see your point, just you know. Symphony or no symphony, it's too short.

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1. Mkay, fair enough.

 

2. ...Same riff and keyboard intro? What are you on about? I guess I'll agree to disagree on this point as well.

 

3. If that's the case, then why do people still make albums?

 

I get what you're trying to get at with the TV analogy. I just don't think pieces of music like symphonies necessarily function that way all the time. Sure, when you go to a concert and the program says Tchaikovsky's 4th, you know you're going to get his whole 4th symphony instead of merely one movement. On that same note, however, there are some things that are better, become more well-known, and are listened to as separate entities instead of as whole works. The first movement of Beethoven's 5th is arguably the most well-known piece of classical music in the world. People know that one, but they don't know the rest of the symphony. It's the same principle with modern music. (I really hope this makes sense. It seems a bit jumbled to me.)

 

I will agree that "Exogenesis" is too short, simply because you can't have a 10-minute symphony.

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1. Mkay, fair enough.

 

2. ...Same riff and keyboard intro? What are you on about? I guess I'll agree to disagree on this point as well.

 

3. If that's the case, then why do people still make albums?

 

I get what you're trying to get at with the TV analogy. I just don't think pieces of music like symphonies necessarily function that way all the time. Sure, when you go to a concert and the program says Tchaikovsky's 4th, you know you're going to get his whole 4th symphony instead of merely one movement. On that same note, however, there are some things that are better, become more well-known, and are listened to as separate entities instead of as whole works. The first movement of Beethoven's 5th is arguably the most well-known piece of classical music in the world. People know that one, but they don't know the rest of the symphony. It's the same principle with modern music. (I really hope this makes sense. It seems a bit jumbled to me.)

 

I will agree that "Exogenesis" is too short, simply because you can't have a 10-minute symphony.

 

It's not the same riff, it's similar, and it starts with a keyboard intro, rather like New Born, instead of starting head first with the guitar riff.

 

Unnatural Selection simply sounds inspired by New Born to me, and when I saw them at Wembley, they played US and not NB.

 

And I guess people won't be making albums for much longer, will they? :\

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